DC Loses Another Terrific Teacher

[Anonymous]

Stories like this keep people like me in private schools.

[Anonymous]

Here's a better analogy---an exceptionally talented litigator with a specialty in Supreme Court work is told that she now has to defend misdemeanors. Sure, both are jobs for a litigator---but would you criticize the Supreme Court practitioner for not being thrilled about the misdemeanor defense practice? I sure wouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a better analogy---an exceptionally talented litigator with a specialty in Supreme Court work is told that she now has to defend misdemeanors. Sure, both are jobs for a litigator---but would you criticize the Supreme Court practitioner for not being thrilled about the misdemeanor defense practice? I sure wouldn't.

Except, high school teaching doesn't actually work like that. There's a team of teachers who teach the subject, and they are all expected to take their fair share of the load. Sure, with more experience, interest and aptitude, some teachers do specialize in teaching the AP or advanced classes, or the older grades versus the younger ones.

But it is ridiculous to say that teaching AP classes is SOOOOO specialised that it makes it inappropriate for you to also be able to teach one ONE 11th grade "regular" English class. A teacher should do his job, and be a real teacher, even to the apparently brain-damaged children in 11th grade who don't happen to be gifted enough to take AP or honors English. They deserve a teacher, too. And to say that it is just too hard to "switch gears" and teach them -- nonsense.

[Anonymous]

HR usually rewards long-time employees with promotions. This was a demotion and the principal of Wilson knew it.

[Anonymous]

Here's a better analogy -- an elementary school teacher who has taught 5th grade gifted and talented kids for years, is asked to teach a 4th grade "regular" class.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
But it is ridiculous to say that teaching AP classes is SOOOOO specialised that it makes it inappropriate for you to also be able to teach one ONE 11th grade "regular" English class.

According to his open letter, he was asked to teach three grade level classes. He had been teaching one grade level class and that's on what his IMPACT score was based. But, all of this continues to miss the big picture. Wilson had a talented and respected teacher. Now it doesn't. How that makes the school better is not at all clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a better analogy -- an elementary school teacher who has taught 5th grade gifted and talented kids for years, is asked to teach a 4th grade "regular" class.

Here's a better analogy - an elementary school teacher who has taught 5th grade gifted and talented kids for years, is TOLD to teach a 4th grade "regular" class, then has his evaluations based on the one class he has the least experience teaching and is forced to make a retire-or-be fired decision based on that one class after a long and successful career.

His former 5th grade class was taken over by a new teacher with no experience because the principal (and the new teacher) thought anyone could teach the smart kids because they were easier. The former 5th grade teacher was so overwhelmed trying to do right by his new class that he didn't have time to help the new 5th grade teacher, besides his help wasn't particularly wanted. There were rumors that he was an old fogey and the new teacher was also a little afraid to ask for his help, because she knew he was not in favor with the principal. Thus, both the 4th and 5th grade students suffered that year because of school politics having nothing to do with helping children.

Then the school lost an experienced teacher who was not given a chance to help the next generation of teachers with his expertise.

Possible additional outcome: Both the 4th and 5th grade standardized tests scores went down that year. Everyone knew why, but no one could talk about it.

[Anonymous]

I think folks are still missing a point, this guy may not have been a great a teacher as so many people think. He sounds like a great guy. I am sure he invoked a lot of warm fuzzy feelings in a lot of people, but did he teach? His unwillingness to condesend to average kids tells me he did not, smart AP kids are easy to teach and you can get away with not teaching because the kids normal talent covers for their failures. This is why DC schools have been in such bad shape for so long, we confuse our feelings for a person with excellent teaching. Do you really want a great guy, but lousy teacher in your child's classroom. I don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think folks are still missing a point, this guy may not have been a great a teacher as so many people think. He sounds like a great guy. I am sure he invoked a lot of warm fuzzy feelings in a lot of people, but did he teach? His unwillingness to condesend to average kids tells me he did not, smart AP kids are easy to teach and you can get away with not teaching because the kids normal talent covers for their failures. This is why DC schools have been in such bad shape for so long, we confuse our feelings for a person with excellent teaching. Do you really want a great guy, but lousy teacher in your child's classroom. I don't.

ITA!!! He got burned out and chose to quit rather than accept assessment of, by his own admission, the one area he didn't really care about. It happens. (Not exactly "Too Sir, With Love". Yes, I'm old.)

Maybe he could go to CHEC/Bell and teach AP all day long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think folks are still missing a point, this guy may not have been a great a teacher as so many people think. He sounds like a great guy. I am sure he invoked a lot of warm fuzzy feelings in a lot of people, but did he teach? His unwillingness to condesend to average kids tells me he did not, smart AP kids are easy to teach and you can get away with not teaching because the kids normal talent covers for their failures. This is why DC schools have been in such bad shape for so long, we confuse our feelings for a person with excellent teaching. Do you really want a great guy, but lousy teacher in your child's classroom. I don't.

ITA!!! He got burned out and chose to quit rather than accept assessment of, by his own admission, the one area he didn't really care about. It happens. (Not exactly "Too Sir, With Love". Yes, I'm old.)

Maybe he could go to CHEC/Bell and teach AP all day long.

I'm going to have to disagree with all of this--it seems rational and well-thought out, but doesn't in any way support the contention that Rhee is The Most Evil Entity In The Universe.

Occam's Razor and all that...

[Anonymous]

13:30-In all honesty the young teachers are not the unionized teachers... Let's ask the same question within two years when the contract is up for renogotiation...and there's no bonus money on the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think folks are still missing a point, this guy may not have been a great a teacher as so many people think. He sounds like a great guy. I am sure he invoked a lot of warm fuzzy feelings in a lot of people, but did he teach? His unwillingness to condesend to average kids tells me he did not, smart AP kids are easy to teach and you can get away with not teaching because the kids normal talent covers for their failures. This is why DC schools have been in such bad shape for so long, we confuse our feelings for a person with excellent teaching. Do you really want a great guy, but lousy teacher in your child's classroom. I don't.

Here are three comments by former students found on the "keep joe riener at Wilson" petition. He sounds like a pretty good teacher to me.

Joe Riener has inspired me in more ways than I can describe here in 500 characters. In short, I have found the courage to pursue a career in Theater and I would be lying if I said Joe Riener had nothing to do with it. Bring him back.

Mr. Riener was the best teacher I ever had at Wilson, and I owe the development of my writing abilities to him. Not only did he impart on my a great love of literature, I am sure that without him I wouldn't have gotten into as good of a school as I did. He was one of the last remaining adults at Wilson who treated students like they were people, not numbers or a waste of time and space. If he leaves, there will be none left.

I'm really disappointed to hear that this is happening to one of Wilson's most dedicated educators. I find it absolutely absurd that any practiced method of teaching evaluation would give Joe Riener such poor marks. I found him to be an amazing teacher who really prepared me for college. Through my two years with him I became a better writer, reader, and thinker. I would highly recommend that DCPS both reconsider the decision regarding Mr. Riener and also improve methods of teacher evaluation!

[Anonymous]

He shot himself in the foot. Too bad he wouldn't use the online grading system and get with the program, like all of his fellow teachers. He was a little too quirky for his own good.

[Anonymous]

"but did he teach? His unwillingness to condesend to average kids tells me he did not"

no kidding - what else does your crystal ball tell you? Does it matter that for over a decade wilson students and parents didn't come to the same conclusion?

Actually, the article says he was teaching average kids, but because of ill health wanted to teach part time the kids he knew how to teach best. What does that tell you about him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I understand it, he wanted only to teach students who were already motivated to do well. Is that the kind of teacher we want in DCPS? Sorry, I don't feel badly for him. If he was such a great teacher, he'd be happy to teach general classes and not just to the cream of the crop. I think there is something to what the principal said - anybody could teach the AP classes because those kids are the ones who are already invested in learning and interested in doing well. It's the teachers who are working with the other kids and who are genuinely making a difference who should be retained.

I really agree with this. This guy sounds like he was really great at encouraging kids that are already pretty motivated--I've seen that pattern at my kid's elementary school. For the record I've got one of those bright easily motivated kids and one who REALLY struggles. I was so glad to see our principal ax the prima donna teacher who flounced around the school adored by bright likeable kids and was neglectful and even aggressively bullying to the kids that weren't the sharpest (in her eyes, anyway). This was 3rd GRADE. Some of these popular teachers can become steam rollers for the easy to reach kids with pushy parents behind them.

Rhee is not going to reward that type teacher because they can be so very harmful to those kids who really need to be reached by less conventional means--You Washington Latin parents be careful, you might get stuck with an embittered, burnt out guy.