Taking classes for high school credit in middle school

[Anonymous]

MCPS has a number of classes like you describe -- high school level courses offered in middle school. Algebra 1 and Honors Geometry are examples. The rationale as previously mentioned is the preference for the critical mass of middle school students that are taking high school course requirements to stay in middle school for psychosocial reasons. The teachers teaching these course have the appropriate certification for high school requirement courses in MCPS. Again, it is irrelevant whether the high school course is taught in elementary or middle school. If an elementary or middle school student takes a required MCPS high school course the earned grade will show up on the MCPS high school transcript. It is irrelvant whether the MCPS high school course taught by an MCPS certified teacher was taken in elementary, middle or high school, center, magnet or otherwise. This is the policy.

[Anonymous]

Algebra 1 and even intro foreign languages are hardly high school level classes these days. At my DS's private school everyone took Alg 1 in 8th grade. In my DDs high school (private) there were only about 10 kids who took Alg 1 in 9th grade based on the placement test, the rest took higher level math. Most of the kids at our MCPS middle school seem to have taken Alg 1 as well. Heck, even when i went to HS there were very few kids still taking Alg 1 in 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting...another example of a course taught in the middle school (Algebra 1) that ultimately appears on a child's high school transcript. In this case, an elementary school student bused to the middle school to take a class not offered in elementary school, namely, Algebra 1.

So let me see. Elementary school student (10 yr old or younger) gets bussed to middle school to take Algebra 1. That Algebra 1 grade then goes onto kids high school transcript because Algebra 1 is considered a high school level class even though it is taught at the middle school. Sounds like a real good plan MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has a number of classes like you describe -- high school level courses offered in middle school. Algebra 1 and Honors Geometry are examples. The rationale as previously mentioned is the preference for the critical mass of middle school students that are taking high school course requirements to stay in middle school for psychosocial reasons. The teachers teaching these course have the appropriate certification for high school requirement courses in MCPS. Again, it is irrelevant whether the high school course is taught in elementary or middle school. If an elementary or middle school student takes a required MCPS high school course the earned grade will show up on the MCPS high school transcript. It is irrelvant whether the MCPS high school course taught by an MCPS certified teacher was taken in elementary, middle or high school, center, magnet or otherwise. This is the policy.

And this policy sucks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has a number of classes like you describe -- high school level courses offered in middle school. Algebra 1 and Honors Geometry are examples. The rationale as previously mentioned is the preference for the critical mass of middle school students that are taking high school course requirements to stay in middle school for psychosocial reasons. The teachers teaching these course have the appropriate certification for high school requirement courses in MCPS. Again, it is irrelevant whether the high school course is taught in elementary or middle school. If an elementary or middle school student takes a required MCPS high school course the earned grade will show up on the MCPS high school transcript. It is irrelvant whether the MCPS high school course taught by an MCPS certified teacher was taken in elementary, middle or high school, center, magnet or otherwise. This is the policy.

WTH is with this robotic summary of facts? We know what the policy is. The question is, is it a reasonable policy? Is it a good policy, developmentally appropriate? What is it about foreign language classes that makes them "high school" classes whereas other MS electives (e.g. band, home ec) are not?

These are the questions. We all KNOW what the policy is.

[Anonymous]

Algebra 1 and even intro foreign languages are hardly high school level classes these days. At my DS's private school everyone took Alg 1 in 8th grade. In my DDs high school (private) there were only about 10 kids who took Alg 1 in 9th grade based on the placement test, the rest took higher level math. Most of the kids at our MCPS middle school seem to have taken Alg 1 as well. Heck, even when i went to HS there were very few kids still taking Alg 1 in 9th grade.

Correct. But to get a MCPS high school diploma passing a course in Algebra 1 is required. Granted we all know that there is a low bar for requirements for a high school diploma. Nevertheless, you may not get a MCPS high school diploma is this requirement is not met. Of course, not all universities and colleges require a high school diploma for admission. But, if you have no plans or need for college then you may wish for a high school diploma -- like Bill Gates!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Algebra 1 and even intro foreign languages are hardly high school level classes these days. At my DS's private school everyone took Alg 1 in 8th grade. In my DDs high school (private) there were only about 10 kids who took Alg 1 in 9th grade based on the placement test, the rest took higher level math. Most of the kids at our MCPS middle school seem to have taken Alg 1 as well. Heck, even when i went to HS there were very few kids still taking Alg 1 in 9th grade.

Correct. But to get a MCPS high school diploma passing a course in Algebra 1 is required. Granted we all know that there is a low bar for requirements for a high school diploma. Nevertheless, you may not get a MCPS high school diploma is this requirement is not met. Of course, not all universities and colleges require a high school diploma for admission. But, if you have no plans or need for college then you may wish for a high school diploma -- like Bill Gates!

I don't think anyone was arguing this point. Did I miss something?

[Anonymous]

WTH is with this robotic summary of facts? We know what the policy is. The question is, is it a reasonable policy? Is it a good policy, developmentally appropriate? What is it about foreign language classes that makes them "high school" classes whereas other MS electives (e.g. band, home ec) are not?

These are the questions. We all KNOW what the policy is.

Can't one not make the same argument for Algebra 1, Honors geometry, computer science and physics? What is it about these courses that make them "high school" classes whereas other MS electives (e.g band, home etc) are not?

What is the difference between a language and physics or math that would relegate one course to elective or requirement status?

What policy would you advocate if you were a policy maker and how would you implement it?

[Anonymous]

WTH is with this robotic summary of facts? We know what the policy is. The question is, is it a reasonable policy? Is it a good policy, developmentally appropriate? What is it about foreign language classes that makes them "high school" classes whereas other MS electives (e.g. band, home ec) are not?

These are the questions. We all KNOW what the policy is.

Yes, it's a reasonable policy in the absence of other alternatives. If MCPS elementary and middle school students were allowed to take high school courses (according to the current definitions and classifications) that did not count on their high school transcripts then these courses would be flooded by elementary and middle school students essentially auditing these higher level "high school" courses. I'm not quite sure the present system could handle the demand. Of course, the public could vote to pump more dollars into the public school system to make this work then public school elementary and middle school students could take languages and higher level maths and science without "penalty" of the grade showing up on their high school transcripts and affecting their graqde point averages.

Some private high school institutions simply have a pass/fail policy and/or no grades (but descriptive summary of a students performance)for those with tight anal sphincters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Algebra 1 and even intro foreign languages are hardly high school level classes these days. At my DS's private school everyone took Alg 1 in 8th grade. In my DDs high school (private) there were only about 10 kids who took Alg 1 in 9th grade based on the placement test, the rest took higher level math. Most of the kids at our MCPS middle school seem to have taken Alg 1 as well. Heck, even when i went to HS there were very few kids still taking Alg 1 in 9th grade.

Correct. But to get a MCPS high school diploma passing a course in Algebra 1 is required. Granted we all know that there is a low bar for requirements for a high school diploma. Nevertheless, you may not get a MCPS high school diploma is this requirement is not met. Of course, not all universities and colleges require a high school diploma for admission. But, if you have no plans or need for college then you may wish for a high school diploma -- like Bill Gates!

So are you saying that my son, who took Alg 1 in a private middle school, and will be taking Honors Alg 2 in 9th grade next year at MCPS (and will be on track to take AP calculus by 12th grade) won't qualify to graduate from MCPS because he didn't take Alg 1 in MCPS? The counselor didn't mention this when we registered for classes. And she didn't seem to indicate that his Alg 1 and language grades from middle school would transfer over to his HS transcript (which would be fine with me if they did since he got A's). In fact he doesn't even need to take the Algebra HSA.

Anyway, my point was that taking Alg 1 in middle school seems to be the norm so why treat it like a HS class.

[Anonymous]

So are you saying that my son, who took Alg 1 in a private middle school, and will be taking Honors Alg 2 in 9th grade next year at MCPS (and will be on track to take AP calculus by 12th grade) won't qualify to graduate from MCPS because he didn't take Alg 1 in MCPS? The counselor didn't mention this when we registered for classes. And she didn't seem to indicate that his Alg 1 and language grades from middle school would transfer over to his HS transcript (which would be fine with me if they did since he got A's). In fact he doesn't even need to take the Algebra HSA.

Anyway, my point was that taking Alg 1 in middle school seems to be the norm so why treat it like a HS class.

No, I am not saying that about your child or another child entering MCPS from another public or private school (sometimes in the 12th grade).

Your child would not be put in any advanced MCPS math class without documentation. I am sure you and your son transferred his academic records to MCPS. I am also certain that if he is offered a placement exam in Math to ascertain appropriate math placement you or he did not decline.

I do not make MCPS policy. I agree with you. Algebra 1 should not be classified as a high school course. In many palces around the world this is easily mastered at the tail end of elementary school. Perhaps this explains the US poor performance in math compared to other countries.

[Anonymous]

Addendum:

Standards are not established for those way to the right of the Bell shaped curve but to establish a minimum bar or requirement for high school graduates. Thus, because your child successfully passed Algebra 1 in the 7th or 8th grade does not mean that should be the standard for all students graduating from high school many of whom have no intention or desire to go onto a typical 4-year US college/university. I can bet your child will be in the 40 percent + bracket of high school graduates that ultimately graduate from a 4-year university?

[Anonymous]

So are you saying that my son, who took Alg 1 in a private middle school, and will be taking Honors Alg 2 in 9th grade next year at MCPS (and will be on track to take AP calculus by 12th grade) won't qualify to graduate from MCPS because he didn't take Alg 1 in MCPS? The counselor didn't mention this when we registered for classes. And she didn't seem to indicate that his Alg 1 and language grades from middle school would transfer over to his HS transcript (which would be fine with me if they did since he got A's). In fact he doesn't even need to take the Algebra HSA.

Anyway, my point was that taking Alg 1 in middle school seems to be the norm so why treat it like a HS class.

If your child indeed will take Algebra 2 (Honors) in 9th grade in the typical MCPS math pathway he will be in Calculus well before 12 th grade unless he elects to not take math every year in high school or goes the slow pony express path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So are you saying that my son, who took Alg 1 in a private middle school, and will be taking Honors Alg 2 in 9th grade next year at MCPS (and will be on track to take AP calculus by 12th grade) won't qualify to graduate from MCPS because he didn't take Alg 1 in MCPS? The counselor didn't mention this when we registered for classes. And she didn't seem to indicate that his Alg 1 and language grades from middle school would transfer over to his HS transcript (which would be fine with me if they did since he got A's). In fact he doesn't even need to take the Algebra HSA.

Anyway, my point was that taking Alg 1 in middle school seems to be the norm so why treat it like a HS class.

If your child indeed will take Algebra 2 (Honors) in 9th grade in the typical MCPS math pathway he will be in Calculus well before 12 th grade unless he elects to not take math every year in high school or goes the slow pony express path.

The 4 year path we looked at was Alg 2 honors, Honors Geo, Pre Calc and AP Calc. This is behind where some of his public school buddies are because they took Geo in middle school. But I don't feel strongly that he needs to take more than AP Calc in HS. This is where I don't really get the math acceleration in MCPS. Seems like the main thing the more advanced kids take is AP Stat and if he really wants to take that he could take it in the summer or double up since Stat is pretty much a stand alone class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So are you saying that my son, who took Alg 1 in a private middle school, and will be taking Honors Alg 2 in 9th grade next year at MCPS (and will be on track to take AP calculus by 12th grade) won't qualify to graduate from MCPS because he didn't take Alg 1 in MCPS? The counselor didn't mention this when we registered for classes. And she didn't seem to indicate that his Alg 1 and language grades from middle school would transfer over to his HS transcript (which would be fine with me if they did since he got A's). In fact he doesn't even need to take the Algebra HSA.

Anyway, my point was that taking Alg 1 in middle school seems to be the norm so why treat it like a HS class.

No, I am not saying that about your child or another child entering MCPS from another public or private school (sometimes in the 12th grade).

Your child would not be put in any advanced MCPS math class without documentation. I am sure you and your son transferred his academic records to MCPS. I am also certain that if he is offered a placement exam in Math to ascertain appropriate math placement you or he did not decline.

I do not make MCPS policy. I agree with you. Algebra 1 should not be classified as a high school course. In many palces around the world this is easily mastered at the tail end of elementary school. Perhaps this explains the US poor performance in math compared to other countries.

Actually they have not asked for a transcript. We gave them a part year transcript for 8th grade only (because we registered before year end). And no placement exam was offered.