MCPS Teachers Quitting? Who is replacing them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

This, lawyers, social workers, nurses, and others in similar professions with master's degrees make less than starting teachers. Especially when you consider its a 10 month position and they get better health care and other benefits vs. the county.

Are you arguing that teachers paid too much? The average teacher works 52 hours a week once you include grading and prep outside of school hours. The only way for teachers to get pay raises (beyond COLA or Step) is by taking courses in the summer or after school. Teachers are not typically eligible for bonuses overtime.
The problem with being a teacher is that it is always a cost/expense. We don't make other people more money directly like most other jobs.

Teaching used to be a decent work/life balance compared to most jobs since we could get the same days off as our kids. That still obviously mostly exists. However, every other benefit has been diminished. Caring too much about many other aspects in the classroom is far more stressful than before and school policies/admin means less support. At this point the only thing a teacher is allowed to safely care about is more pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

Well that is interesting because that is above the current teacher pay scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has had a long term sub the entire year so far in physics.
The school has not been able to find anyone

This is going to become a huge problem.

We can’t find teachers at our school willing to take on AP classes. When everybody is already swamped and exhausted, who will agree to piling on that much more work? Strong teachers used to campaign for those classes. Not anymore.

There are currently 7 open physics positions posted. Why would anyone want to be a highly qualified STEM teacher when they can literally make twice the money with less stress in industry? There needs to be pay differentials for hard to fill positions.

Not many industry jobs include a pension that kicks in after 20 something years and guarantees half your pay for life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

Well that is interesting because that is above the current teacher pay scale.

Your neighbor is lying to you or isn't a classroom teacher. Reading specialist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

How much screen time do kids get in school?

I am a different poster than the one you are responding to but I am also a teacher. Please understand that chromebooks or the such is a requirement, beyond our control. I would much rather have students write their essays by hand instead of on the chromebooks.

This is so depressing on so many levels

As a layperson I feel like teachers used to have a lot more freedom. I'm sure it could be more work but also more freeing and motivating. It seems like so much micromanaging from the central office and purchased curricula these days ; I would be depressed if my job were run that way

As a layperson I would ask WHY this started? Many people point to NCLB, which is a federal law. What replaced it and its requirements? How much money comes from the Fed or State to support a district and would a district and its families be willing to forgo that funding to be able to govern themselves differently? Are you meeting the needs of your student ls or are they and their parents complaining to Administration, CO and the County Council about unfair and inequitable treatment and learning/access at school? Are teacher preparation programs providing folks with the skills to teach for the 21st century of work.

I do not for a minute think that the problem is solely teachers or principals or schools. Nor do I think merely scrapping CO or sending 90% of its staff back to classrooms would solve the problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has had a long term sub the entire year so far in physics.
The school has not been able to find anyone

This is going to become a huge problem.

We can’t find teachers at our school willing to take on AP classes. When everybody is already swamped and exhausted, who will agree to piling on that much more work? Strong teachers used to campaign for those classes. Not anymore.

There are currently 7 open physics positions posted. Why would anyone want to be a highly qualified STEM teacher when they can literally make twice the money with less stress in industry? There needs to be pay differentials for hard to fill positions.

Not many industry jobs include a pension that kicks in after 20 something years and guarantees half your pay for life.

Other jobs have 401ks. If you make twice the salary you can easily save much more than what the pension is worth.

[Anonymous]

I don’t get it. MCPS has a 3.2 billion dollar per annum budget. According to their own charts 90% goes to salaries, healthcare and pensions. They lost a ton of kids from their suboptimal performance in the pandemic. Granted I understand why a young teacher is getting screwed - much harder gig - and they are funding older teachers who had better parental influence- and less ghost student issues from poverty in Central America. But seriously it doesn’t add up. Add a 10% increase for the schools? Inflation - even at highest was 8 and change. This is DOD level bloat…with no Inspector General to boot! Glad I’m not funding the graft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. MCPS has a 3.2 billion dollar per annum budget. According to their own charts 90% goes to salaries, healthcare and pensions. They lost a ton of kids from their suboptimal performance in the pandemic. Granted I understand why a young teacher is getting screwed - much harder gig - and they are funding older teachers who had better parental influence- and less ghost student issues from poverty in Central America. But seriously it doesn’t add up. Add a 10% increase for the schools? Inflation - even at highest was 8 and change. This is DOD level bloat…with no Inspector General to boot! Glad I’m not funding the graft.

The operating budget is separate from the capital budget. The main cost of education is personnel. That is normal. I am not sure what else you want them to spend it on.

And inflation has been 30% in the last 10 years and starting salaries have increased 16% in the same period. So they have some catching up to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

This, lawyers, social workers, nurses, and others in similar professions with master's degrees make less than starting teachers. Especially when you consider its a 10 month position and they get better health care and other benefits vs. the county.

Are you arguing that teachers paid too much? The average teacher works 52 hours a week once you include grading and prep outside of school hours. The only way for teachers to get pay raises (beyond COLA or Step) is by taking courses in the summer or after school. Teachers are not typically eligible for bonuses overtime.
The problem with being a teacher is that it is always a cost/expense. We don't make other people more money directly like most other jobs.

Teaching used to be a decent work/life balance compared to most jobs since we could get the same days off as our kids. That still obviously mostly exists. However, every other benefit has been diminished. Caring too much about many other aspects in the classroom is far more stressful than before and school policies/admin means less support. At this point the only thing a teacher is allowed to safely care about is more pay.

No, what we are saying is plenty of other professions are equally low paid if not, even less pay for equal or more hours. Teachers do far better than other professionals in the county who deserve equal pay and recognition. You don't have social workers or nursing rushing to work for MCPS, for example, as the pay is less for a master's degree. You have to have the degree prior to starting whereas a teacher can have a BA and get their master's while working, partly paid for..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. MCPS has a 3.2 billion dollar per annum budget. According to their own charts 90% goes to salaries, healthcare and pensions. They lost a ton of kids from their suboptimal performance in the pandemic. Granted I understand why a young teacher is getting screwed - much harder gig - and they are funding older teachers who had better parental influence- and less ghost student issues from poverty in Central America. But seriously it doesn’t add up. Add a 10% increase for the schools? Inflation - even at highest was 8 and change. This is DOD level bloat…with no Inspector General to boot! Glad I’m not funding the graft.

The operating budget is separate from the capital budget. The main cost of education is personnel. That is normal. I am not sure what else you want them to spend it on.

And inflation has been 30% in the last 10 years and starting salaries have increased 16% in the same period. So they have some catching up to do.

I think if MCPS shared line item budget many of us could find a way to make the current budget work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

That's a really high salary for a teacher.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

+1
I just checked the pay scale. The top is $118K and that’s for a Masters + 60 credits after 25 years of experience. The PP above really thinks $120K is too much for a teacher with those credentials?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

This, lawyers, social workers, nurses, and others in similar professions with master's degrees make less than starting teachers. Especially when you consider its a 10 month position and they get better health care and other benefits vs. the county.

Are you arguing that teachers paid too much? The average teacher works 52 hours a week once you include grading and prep outside of school hours. The only way for teachers to get pay raises (beyond COLA or Step) is by taking courses in the summer or after school. Teachers are not typically eligible for bonuses overtime.
The problem with being a teacher is that it is always a cost/expense. We don't make other people more money directly like most other jobs.

Teaching used to be a decent work/life balance compared to most jobs since we could get the same days off as our kids. That still obviously mostly exists. However, every other benefit has been diminished. Caring too much about many other aspects in the classroom is far more stressful than before and school policies/admin means less support. At this point the only thing a teacher is allowed to safely care about is more pay.

No, what we are saying is plenty of other professions are equally low paid if not, even less pay for equal or more hours. Teachers do far better than other professionals in the county who deserve equal pay and recognition. You don't have social workers or nursing rushing to work for MCPS, for example, as the pay is less for a master's degree. You have to have the degree prior to starting whereas a teacher can have a BA and get their master's while working, partly paid for..

And how is that working out for those professions? https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/documents-written-by-nurses-lay-bare-the-toll-of-staffing-crisis/3290176/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. MCPS has a 3.2 billion dollar per annum budget. According to their own charts 90% goes to salaries, healthcare and pensions. They lost a ton of kids from their suboptimal performance in the pandemic. Granted I understand why a young teacher is getting screwed - much harder gig - and they are funding older teachers who had better parental influence- and less ghost student issues from poverty in Central America. But seriously it doesn’t add up. Add a 10% increase for the schools? Inflation - even at highest was 8 and change. This is DOD level bloat…with no Inspector General to boot! Glad I’m not funding the graft.

Central office salaries are huge.