Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amherst, Swarthmore, and Pomona should be above, or at least with, Williams at this point. Williams and Princeton have been USNWR darlings for a decade+ but people are still choosing to go to Harvard and Stanford instead for national universities and to Amherst and Swarthmore for SLACs.

I prefer A/S/P over Williams but objectively, there's no denying Williams is superior. In fact, Williams consistently wins cross admit battles against Amherst and hit a much higher yield recently (59% vs Amherst and Swat's 40-45%).

Williams has a smaller student to faculty ratio, smaller classes (nearly 80% under 20 vs 65-75% at the others), better maintained facilities (Swat might be prettier but the buildings themselves aren't in the best physical shape), winter study and tutorials for truly distinctive academic experiences, the top d3 athletic program, stronger students by academic standards, and better outcomes based on most outcome oriented rankings. You also get access to the most comprehensive network of Oxford/Cambridge fellowships and study away of any school in the country.

It's a really good school. If it were in a suburban area or had the consortium access the others do, it'd crush the competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst, Swarthmore, and Pomona should be above, or at least with, Williams at this point. Williams and Princeton have been USNWR darlings for a decade+ but people are still choosing to go to Harvard and Stanford instead for national universities and to Amherst and Swarthmore for SLACs.

How can you substantiate this?

It is imperfect but Parchment's head-to-heads have enough data to be statistically significant for these small groups. Harvard and Swarthmore would be the preferred schools in each group.
Harvard is the favorite over Princeton (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Harvard+University&with=Princeton+University) and Stanford (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Harvard+University&with=Stanford+University)
Swarthmore is preferred over Williams (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Swarthmore+College&with=Williams+College) and Amherst (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Swarthmore+College&with=Amherst+College)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst, Swarthmore, and Pomona should be above, or at least with, Williams at this point. Williams and Princeton have been USNWR darlings for a decade+ but people are still choosing to go to Harvard and Stanford instead for national universities and to Amherst and Swarthmore for SLACs.

How can you substantiate this?

It is imperfect but Parchment's head-to-heads have enough data to be statistically significant for these small groups. Harvard and Swarthmore would be the preferred schools in each group.
Harvard is the favorite over Princeton (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Harvard+University&with=Princeton+University) and Stanford (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Harvard+University&with=Stanford+University)
Swarthmore is preferred over Williams (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Swarthmore+College&with=Williams+College) and Amherst (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Swarthmore+College&with=Amherst+College)

Parchment is not a reliable resource...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vassar and Smith should be lower. Richmond perhaps as well. CMC is a little too close to the sun

Why? We were very impressed with Vassar.

I’m always surprised Vassar is not more popular. I don’t know what I am missing about it.

Vassar test scores are in line with peers and endowment is comparable but it is culturally and socially defective. Only a certain type of student is drawn to the school, which makes it one of the least intellectually diverse and vibrant colleges in America. As a result of this, Vassar struggles to attract male students esp heterosexual males. The student body lacks geographic diversity for the same reason- heavy tilt towards NY area. If you read through college confidential, there is an extraordinary amount of negativity coming from current and former students, specifically related to the drug culture, weird social scene, etc, while the school’s art programs are overhyped. The imbalanced campus culture has led to a reputational decline from its glory days as a Wellesley peer. Teaching quality is low due to heavy ideological bias. Poughkeepsie is universally regarded as dreadful while accessibility to NYC is overestimated from outside. While its proximity to the tristate area gives it access to high stat students, and the endowment is large enough to sustain good financial aid, it should probably be ranked more in line with Oberlin, which is also kept afloat by a large endowment despite a similarly imbalanced campus culture.

I can see a little of this, could be more diverse, but your assessment reeks of your political bias. My kid applied there (and Wheaton, IL, so don't try to claim we're too lefty). We were very impressed at accepted students day with students and faculty. We had not heard anything of "weird social scene." They have a great reputation for programs, so not buying overhyped. Sure, admitted students were more female and LGBTQ than other campuses, but there was some variety. Kids were nit largely from NY, they were from all over. Mine ultimately chose an Ivy that gave better FA, but definitely considered Vassar. I would rank Vassar higher than Oberlin (interesting you had a dig at them too). You seem on a mission. There may be fair criticism, but yours seems particularly suspect.

[Anonymous]

I thinknits the same poster in several threads using Parchment as data, ots annoying and misleading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You also get access to the most comprehensive network of Oxford/Cambridge fellowships and study away of any school in the country.

It's a really good school. If it were in a suburban area or had the consortium access the others do, it'd crush the competition.

Because you really need to get out of Williamstown!

Is there departmental output data on these schools? The relative size of departments skews earnings data quite a bit. Earnings by overall college is a terrible metric that has a lot of attention now (wait, you mean a niche tech school has high mean and median earnings but actually their CS grads earn the same as another elite school's ?).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Higher education should allow freedom of speech, respect differing opinions, and encourage intellectual discourse presented from a variety of perspectives. Ultra-liberal, leftist schools are intolerant of opposing thought.

And schools that fail to promote this type of environment will suffer in the marketplace. How many non-LGBTQ males who get 1500 on their SATs would choose Vassar over all their other options? Oberlin is way off the charts now, and Wesleyan has plunged as well. Haverford has declined, now tied with Richmond (which has a conservative reputation). Reed is nowhere to be found. W&L is thriving. Southern schools in general are thriving. Who wants to go to school with a bunch of angry single minded activists who can't even have a conversation but can only call you names?

My 11th grade son and his friends, who would describe themselves as left- liberal, feel exactly this way. They feel most of the small liberal arts colleges are way too leftist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Higher education should allow freedom of speech, respect differing opinions, and encourage intellectual discourse presented from a variety of perspectives. Ultra-liberal, leftist schools are intolerant of opposing thought.

And schools that fail to promote this type of environment will suffer in the marketplace. How many non-LGBTQ males who get 1500 on their SATs would choose Vassar over all their other options? Oberlin is way off the charts now, and Wesleyan has plunged as well. Haverford has declined, now tied with Richmond (which has a conservative reputation). Reed is nowhere to be found. W&L is thriving. Southern schools in general are thriving. Who wants to go to school with a bunch of angry single minded activists who can't even have a conversation but can only call you names?

Man, you have an agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You also get access to the most comprehensive network of Oxford/Cambridge fellowships and study away of any school in the country.

It's a really good school. If it were in a suburban area or had the consortium access the others do, it'd crush the competition.

Because you really need to get out of Williamstown!

Is there departmental output data on these schools? The relative size of departments skews earnings data quite a bit. Earnings by overall college is a terrible metric that has a lot of attention now (wait, you mean a niche tech school has high mean and median earnings but actually their CS grads earn the same as another elite school's ?).

+1 kind of a jock vibe in the middle of nowhere. We decided to pretty quickly leave and spend an afternoon at Six Flags New England!

[Anonymous]

Middlebury is a funny one because I'd say it is underrated now at 11 but was overrated by USNWR for so long in the 4-6 range.

[Anonymous]

Vassar College has a lovely campus and is in the middle of the hudson valley resurgence with tons of food etc.., you can get on metro north and be in Manhattan for less than the price of a movie. Not sure what the angry anti-Vassar poster/posters is upset about, but it is probably true that if you want to go their and espouse MAGA talking points you will probably be unpopular - however, Vassar, Oberlin and Wesleyan all still have strong numbers and seem to have lots of people willing to apply and go there. For example, Oberlin's applicant pool increased by almost 14% in the past year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Higher education should allow freedom of speech, respect differing opinions, and encourage intellectual discourse presented from a variety of perspectives. Ultra-liberal, leftist schools are intolerant of opposing thought.

And schools that fail to promote this type of environment will suffer in the marketplace. How many non-LGBTQ males who get 1500 on their SATs would choose Vassar over all their other options? Oberlin is way off the charts now, and Wesleyan has plunged as well. Haverford has declined, now tied with Richmond (which has a conservative reputation). Reed is nowhere to be found. W&L is thriving. Southern schools in general are thriving. Who wants to go to school with a bunch of angry single minded activists who can't even have a conversation but can only call you names?

Whoah you are so clearly in a suburban bubble. Vassar and oberlin are very popular with the boys in our Brooklyn crowd

[Anonymous]

For those of you complaining that LACs on the USNWR list are too far left, remember that the 3 military academies are great schools in the LAC top 20. They shouldn't be too liberal for most applicants !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wesleyan seems pretty underrated. I went to Amherst 30+ years ago, and I felt Wesleyan was a near peer. What happened?

Exactly. Like Vassar, it was once a strong institution, among the very best LACs, but has deteriorated due to a lopsided culture that fails to attract a broad base of potential students and drives significant student dissatisfaction. It should probably be ranked even lower than it is. It is not underrated- it has declined.

I went to Williams 12+ years ago and I always saw Wesleyan as a peer - probably because of Little 3's. That said, I feel like a PP's point about in attracting one type of student is accurate. Not to make a blanket statement, but EVERYONE who I know who went to Wesleyan was super relaxed, very smart, and smoked a ton of pot. A huge generalization, but when you know so many people with the same profile who go there is says something. All of my friends went to the admissions weekend or went back for overnights and got high and then had stories of being afraid a squirrel was chasing them around campus or something similar.

Did not get this impression of Wes. My substance free kid was considering it. Sure, maybe some kids smoke, but not all. Programs seemed dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Vassar College has a lovely campus and is in the middle of the hudson valley resurgence with tons of food etc.., you can get on metro north and be in Manhattan for less than the price of a movie. Not sure what the angry anti-Vassar poster/posters is upset about, but it is probably true that if you want to go their and espouse MAGA talking points you will probably be unpopular - however, Vassar, Oberlin and Wesleyan all still have strong numbers and seem to have lots of people willing to apply and go there. For example, Oberlin's applicant pool increased by almost 14% in the past year

+1
Vassar still also has the name recognition and prestige associated with being one of the original 7 Sisters. It actually gets mentioned in popular culture when most SLACs outside of maybe that AWS group don't.
They also have a close-knit alumni network that is especially helpful for women.