Number of Longfellow kids admitted to TJ in 2022

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

People talk about contribution to the overall environment. I thought the purpose was to educate students. These kids are the ones who most need the advanced classes that TJ offers.

Yes - as it turns out, students are educated within an environment, and the more conducive that environment is to collaborative learning, the more positive the end outcome for the students. The reason why gifted education exists is because it is a matter of common acceptance that children have an impact on their learning environment.

And having been connected with TJ as long as I have, I’ve seen a staggering number of kids who were absolutely brilliant but who had a negative impact on the overall TJ learning environment.

Why is it okay to inflict kids like that on the base school? At least at TJ, the brilliant kids who are arrogant jerks have some chance of eating some humble pie or realizing that the world doesn't revolve around them. They're not going to get that at the base school and will likely make the environment there awful for all of the bright kids they're looking down upon.

You’re not “inflicting” them on the base school - that framing presumes that the default should be to send them to TJ. On the contrary, you are not rewarding them for their behavior - or for their total lack of impact whatsoever - by sending them into this exceptional learning environment.

It all depends on whether you view TJ as a reward for certain types of students or whether you view it as a school to meet the needs of kids whose needs can't be met in the base school. If the latter, then the brilliant but arrogant kids need TJ the most. They not only need the academics at TJ, but a place like TJ is their best chance to be humbled and perhaps lose the bad attitude.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

People talk about contribution to the overall environment. I thought the purpose was to educate students. These kids are the ones who most need the advanced classes that TJ offers.

Yes - as it turns out, students are educated within an environment, and the more conducive that environment is to collaborative learning, the more positive the end outcome for the students. The reason why gifted education exists is because it is a matter of common acceptance that children have an impact on their learning environment.

And having been connected with TJ as long as I have, I’ve seen a staggering number of kids who were absolutely brilliant but who had a negative impact on the overall TJ learning environment.

Why is it okay to inflict kids like that on the base school? At least at TJ, the brilliant kids who are arrogant jerks have some chance of eating some humble pie or realizing that the world doesn't revolve around them. They're not going to get that at the base school and will likely make the environment there awful for all of the bright kids they're looking down upon.

You’re not “inflicting” them on the base school - that framing presumes that the default should be to send them to TJ. On the contrary, you are not rewarding them for their behavior - or for their total lack of impact whatsoever - by sending them into this exceptional learning environment.

It all depends on whether you view TJ as a reward for certain types of students or whether you view it as a school to meet the needs of kids whose needs can't be met in the base school. If the latter, then the brilliant but arrogant kids need TJ the most. They not only need the academics at TJ, but a place like TJ is their best chance to be humbled and perhaps lose the bad attitude.

It's neither. Despite the flowery language in the Governor's School charter, TJ was designed to serve the STEM community by producing professionals who are ready to solve problems and drive STEM forward. If it's not genuinely serving the STEM community - and in today's environment, it cannot without legitimate experiential diversity - then it's not serving its purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

People talk about contribution to the overall environment. I thought the purpose was to educate students. These kids are the ones who most need the advanced classes that TJ offers.

Yes - as it turns out, students are educated within an environment, and the more conducive that environment is to collaborative learning, the more positive the end outcome for the students. The reason why gifted education exists is because it is a matter of common acceptance that children have an impact on their learning environment.

And having been connected with TJ as long as I have, I’ve seen a staggering number of kids who were absolutely brilliant but who had a negative impact on the overall TJ learning environment.

I doubt this is even remotely true. Most arrogant kids are not brilliant, they just think they are. Most brilliant kids are very hard workers and very humble as well. Your collaborative learning comment also doesn't make sense; most time spent learning is done quietly on one's own, reading, studying, and thinking about things.

Literally every part of this reply betrays your lack of historical experience with TJ or modern elite academic environments.

Education is best understood as a team sport, especially when the goal is to develop people who are going to change the world and drive innovation.

Save your breath, please... "Team sport" and "innovation" is exactly the type of nonsense corporate speak that I hear almost everyday from the high ups in the workplace. We're talking about young teens who just finished middle school, are motivated and passionate about things. As such, their primary job is to learn and be curious about the world. You don't have to fear; they will have plenty of chances for innovating and giving back when they are older.

Most of the "negative impact" that you keep speaking of is driven by parents who constantly pushed their kids into TJ, often against their will. Those kids are NOT the kids who are thriving at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

You obviously enjoy randomly making claims based on your mood. Maybe you could actually provide some evidence for what "real STEM impact" means, and how exactly is TJ "failing" to produce it? Otherwise you're just projecting your bias that TJ is majority not white, which seems to be your real problem. In terms of tests, it's just one test, but keep calling it a flawed ranking system, as though people don't use tests as a basic tool, all the time and in all aspects of life to determine someone's ability at something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

You obviously enjoy randomly making claims based on your mood. Maybe you could actually provide some evidence for what "real STEM impact" means, and how exactly is TJ "failing" to produce it? Otherwise you're just projecting your bias that TJ is majority not white, which seems to be your real problem. In terms of tests, it's just one test, but keep calling it a flawed ranking system, as though people don't use tests as a basic tool, all the time and in all aspects of life to determine someone's ability at something.

TJ admissions uses GPA which largely is based on performance on tests. The objection appears to be only to hard tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

You obviously enjoy randomly making claims based on your mood. Maybe you could actually provide some evidence for what "real STEM impact" means, and how exactly is TJ "failing" to produce it? Otherwise you're just projecting your bias that TJ is majority not white, which seems to be your real problem. In terms of tests, it's just one test, but keep calling it a flawed ranking system, as though people don't use tests as a basic tool, all the time and in all aspects of life to determine someone's ability at something.

Agree, their fact free posts have lacked merit for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

You obviously enjoy randomly making claims based on your mood. Maybe you could actually provide some evidence for what "real STEM impact" means, and how exactly is TJ "failing" to produce it? Otherwise you're just projecting your bias that TJ is majority not white, which seems to be your real problem. In terms of tests, it's just one test, but keep calling it a flawed ranking system, as though people don't use tests as a basic tool, all the time and in all aspects of life to determine someone's ability at something.

TJ admissions uses GPA which largely is based on performance on tests. The objection appears to be only to hard tests.

You're referring to the tests that many bought from the prep centers in order to skew selection in their favor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

You obviously enjoy randomly making claims based on your mood. Maybe you could actually provide some evidence for what "real STEM impact" means, and how exactly is TJ "failing" to produce it? Otherwise you're just projecting your bias that TJ is majority not white, which seems to be your real problem. In terms of tests, it's just one test, but keep calling it a flawed ranking system, as though people don't use tests as a basic tool, all the time and in all aspects of life to determine someone's ability at something.

TJ admissions uses GPA which largely is based on performance on tests. The objection appears to be only to hard tests.

You're referring to the tests that many bought from the prep centers in order to skew selection in their favor?

#BackDoorKaren

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

You obviously enjoy randomly making claims based on your mood. Maybe you could actually provide some evidence for what "real STEM impact" means, and how exactly is TJ "failing" to produce it? Otherwise you're just projecting your bias that TJ is majority not white, which seems to be your real problem. In terms of tests, it's just one test, but keep calling it a flawed ranking system, as though people don't use tests as a basic tool, all the time and in all aspects of life to determine someone's ability at something.

TJ admissions uses GPA which largely is based on performance on tests. The objection appears to be only to hard tests.

You're referring to the tests that many bought from the prep centers in order to skew selection in their favor?

The test was hard for those who couldn't purchase the answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

This is 10000% spot on. Given TJ's national reputation, there should be very few people in the area who is qualified who decides not to apply, or who is offered admission and turns it down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

This is 10000% spot on. Given TJ's national reputation, there should be very few people in the area who is qualified who decides not to apply, or who is offered admission and turns it down.

my apologies - who ARE qualified