Private Schools Wokeness Over the Top

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Harsh question: Why should someone who claims to be “from a foreign background “ and from a religion that hardly represents a common viewpoint in the US expect to “fit in” — or even want to “fit in”? Surely you must realize that it’s the culture and values behind what you deem “wokeness” that has given you and your kids not just the chance of fitting in, but of being accepted at all by schools and universities that, not too long ago, we’re almost exclusively white, male, American, and, in many cases aggressively Christian?

Exactly, she needs to hurry up and get anti-American and start apologizing for the ways of the world each of the last 10 centuries.
Must need a little more time and kendi books.

OP here. There is a lot that america is doing that is bad (there is a lot of good as well). Just look at the US military footprint around the world. Kendi doesn’t focus on that though. His focus and DeAngelo’s focus is basically on making white people feel bad about themselves. It’s very individualistic too which is quite fitting for American society. It does nothing to change the situation of the victims of US aggression. Kendi is so bad that he makes me want to defend white men lol lol.

Both DeAngelo and Kendi are full of hate and nonsense. They are perfect examples of American privilege as they couldn't live off their bs anywhere else.

OP here. Yep and they are making money of it too. When it comes to race, there are so many better people out there. Cornell West and Reverand Barber are much better in this regard. DeAngelo is even worse that Kendi in my opinion but both are bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always love to see people sending their kids to private school and then complaining that they lack economic diversity. Never gets old

OP here. I know private schools are unequal. They are private schools after all. My problem is the hypocrisy and the virtue signaling. The elite like focusing on race so that the can ignore the role they play when it comes to inequality. They like pretending that they aren’t part of the problem. No need to act all high and mighty.

Well, private schools cannot really fix the fact that they are drivers of economic inequality without ceasing to exist. So they choose to focus on the types of inequality that they can address without ruining their business model

I guess I think focusing on racism/sexism/homophobia without focusing on economic inequality is still better than ignoring inequality altogether

But there are plenty of conservative private schools that will ignore it all if that's what you want

It makes everything performative. Sidwell has a massive diversity statement that goes into painful detail about equity and justice, but left unsaid is that it is an elite school that uses it's vast resources to cater to the elite with a few token scholarship kids, but not enough to effect the overall composition of the student body.

OP here. Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP had it right - college admissions is the name of the game. If your expensive private school isn't teaching your kids the language of DEI they're doing it wrong, because that's that language they need to get access to an elite college. Which in turn allows them to get the elite jobs and spouses that will someday allow them to send your grandkids to the same elite institutions. And the beat goes on.

This is what your paying for OP, so it's what you're getting. So please spare us the complaints of "hypocrisy."

If you lived in Nazi Germany, after the Nazis took over universities, I can imagine you giving the same wise advise to your kids, simply changing DEI for "the Party."

Hint: crazy extremism tends not to last long, and often backfire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Sounds like you would be happy for your kids to be taught about the specific type of oppression that has affected people of your ethnicity/religion. But you chafe at having to think about any injustice that doesn't affect you personally (or a group you identify with).

Maybe think about why that is

[Anonymous]

Touche

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Sounds like you would be happy for your kids to be taught about the specific type of oppression that has affected people of your ethnicity/religion. But you chafe at having to think about any injustice that doesn't affect you personally (or a group you identify with).

Maybe think about why that is

No one attending GDS is oppressed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP had it right - college admissions is the name of the game. If your expensive private school isn't teaching your kids the language of DEI they're doing it wrong, because that's that language they need to get access to an elite college. Which in turn allows them to get the elite jobs and spouses that will someday allow them to send your grandkids to the same elite institutions. And the beat goes on.

This is what your paying for OP, so it's what you're getting. So please spare us the complaints of "hypocrisy."

If you lived in Nazi Germany, after the Nazis took over universities, I can imagine you giving the same wise advise to your kids, simply changing DEI for "the Party."

Hint: crazy extremism tends not to last long, and often backfire.

PP here. I don't send my kids to private school. This isn't "advice" for anyone. It is a factual description of the situation.

But here's another "hint": comparing diversity initiatives to Nazism says more about you than it does about diversity initiatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Harsh question: Why should someone who claims to be “from a foreign background “ and from a religion that hardly represents a common viewpoint in the US expect to “fit in” — or even want to “fit in”? Surely you must realize that it’s the culture and values behind what you deem “wokeness” that has given you and your kids not just the chance of fitting in, but of being accepted at all by schools and universities that, not too long ago, we’re almost exclusively white, male, American, and, in many cases aggressively Christian?

Exactly, she needs to hurry up and get anti-American and start apologizing for the ways of the world each of the last 10 centuries.
Must need a little more time and kendi books.

OP here. There is a lot that america is doing that is bad (there is a lot of good as well). Just look at the US military footprint around the world. Kendi doesn’t focus on that though. His focus and DeAngelo’s focus is basically on making white people feel bad about themselves. It’s very individualistic too which is quite fitting for American society. It does nothing to change the situation of the victims of US aggression. Kendi is so bad that he makes me want to defend white men lol lol.

Meanwhile in the rest of the world today: boy sex slave trade in west Africa, lack of women’s rights in several countries, human trafficking, cartel violence, child marriages, mutilation…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you live the supremacist lifestyle you need to pretend to be super woke as a vaccination against wackos. It’s free and it protects you’re segregated elitist perks.

That’s why our yard sign and bumper stickers are up. Keeps away the wash DC crazies.
Ironically our LatAm nanny told us to keep them up for that very reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did any of you actually read the article? It’s less about how private schools are too woke (although he may very well think they are) and more about DEI is the latest phase in how elite institutions set the tone for what is considered “elite” in a classist sort of way. He compares it to all the black tie events at Harvard, which forced him to learn to tie a bow tie, which he would not have otherwise done. Its an interesting article, but its not really about what the subject suggests.

I understood his point to be that speaking the language of DEI is now code for being the right sort of person. So, ironically, it can be a barrier to inclusion because someone who came from a non-elite background is less likely to talk the talk

Yes, you are correct and have summarized it better than I did, but its not about private schools being too woke.

OP here. My apologies. I realize now that it’s probably because woke is being misused by the right and several groups that it has lost all meaning. When I say woke I mean all the DEI initiatives. I feel it’s less about creating an inclusive community and more about signaling that you are part of this elite that speaks a certain way and acts a certain way.

Yes the left cancels all terms and concepts it doesn’t like and the gaslights you as the bad guy, not the underlying issue and lack of merits. Is teaching three genders to 2nd graders appropriate for a school to do during class time hours? How about activist marches for the little ones? Or debates on how evil Columbus was? 7 yo? 9 yo? 12? High school? College?

Btw forget about phonics or math drills. Your parents can hire a tutor, we’re busy with the Joy of Learning the political movements of the day.

No one is making OP the bad guy. My only point is that the title of this thread, and accordingly much of the discussion it has spawned including your comment above, have little to do with the content of the article at issue.

Keep up Pp. The puck has moved. Just because yours suffering cognitive dissonance doesn’t mean go straight to deflecting and petty attack mode.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure the educated legal immigrants value things like: hard work, following the rules, staying out of trouble and crime, education, freedoms, land rights, liberty, local govt over huge central govt, etc.

Many countries in 2023 don’t have the above values or characteristics, more reward them. But maybe with a few less tests, defunding the police, reparations, admit and job quotas, and welfare programs we can really accel.

OP here. There is a lot of good about the US for sure and us immigrants really value the above! I’m not anti welfare though and as an immigrant I think the US healthcare system is pretty insane. I do believe in a single payer healthcare system. I do feel the US has gone backwards when it comes to freedom of speech. Not sure what happened to the ACLU.

England no longer does.

And remember, Canada went bankrupt in 1998.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you live the supremacist lifestyle you need to pretend to be super woke as a vaccination against wackos. It’s free and it protects you’re segregated elitist perks.

That’s why our yard sign and bumper stickers are up. Keeps away the wash DC crazies.
Ironically our LatAm nanny told us to keep them up for that very reason.

Yes, without those signs I'm sure the elites would be beating down your door

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there actually some “fancy pants private school” policy or event that people want to debate about as being “too woke?” People already have claws out and hurling insults, but it’s already getting boring because there is no defined topic of debate.

Fair point, but I actually think this thread (so far) has been less insult-hurling than might be expected. Maybe a few things were unnecessary (e.g. the FoxNews thing, the thing about Matt Yglesias, and the unnecessarily patronizing use of the word "adorable" [which I immediately regretted]). I do think identifying specific, objective things that have actually happened at a school (not just a fear that something might happen) would move the conversation forward.

OP identified the academic freedom crisis at Hamline, but that's a college situation, not a K-12. And, to be fair, most of those in the academic world (who otherwise overwhelmingly tend to support DEI) agree that the administration made a terrible decision. This was a case of an administration implementing a customer-service model of problem-solving (not upsetting the paying student-customers is the most important criterion in decision-making) rather than truly trying to implement DEI values. A student complained, and that panicked the administration, lest the school be regarded as intolerant. That's not a smart or nuanced approached to an issue of academic freedom.

What has *actually happened* at your area K-12 that has people genuinely concerned that "wokeness" has gone too far. And please no vague nonsense about making kids feel guilty about being white or whatnot. An actual, specific incident, lesson, event, or policy implementation that caused your concern.

OP here. To be honest not really. But the recent changes middle school and high school curriculums seem to indicate that they are going in that direction. I mean I don't have the problem with the specific changes they made but the terminology they are using makes me think they have been taken over by DEI types. When I say terminology I am thinking of their use of words like "centering," "your truth," "generational trauma," "microaggressions." "BIPOC"... you get my drift. What's funny is I believe that generational trauma is a real thing but the way it is used these days minimizes actual generational trauma. I don't know if I will pull my girls out but its just getting to be too much for me. Probably the best solution is for me to move back home! But that would require uprooting our lives here. Plus we would need to find jobs which is never easy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did any of you actually read the article? It’s less about how private schools are too woke (although he may very well think they are) and more about DEI is the latest phase in how elite institutions set the tone for what is considered “elite” in a classist sort of way. He compares it to all the black tie events at Harvard, which forced him to learn to tie a bow tie, which he would not have otherwise done. Its an interesting article, but its not really about what the subject suggests.

I understood his point to be that speaking the language of DEI is now code for being the right sort of person. So, ironically, it can be a barrier to inclusion because someone who came from a non-elite background is less likely to talk the talk

Yes, you are correct and have summarized it better than I did, but its not about private schools being too woke.

OP here. My apologies. I realize now that it’s probably because woke is being misused by the right and several groups that it has lost all meaning. When I say woke I mean all the DEI initiatives. I feel it’s less about creating an inclusive community and more about signaling that you are part of this elite that speaks a certain way and acts a certain way.

Yes the left cancels all terms and concepts it doesn’t like and the gaslights you as the bad guy, not the underlying issue and lack of merits. Is teaching three genders to 2nd graders appropriate for a school to do during class time hours? How about activist marches for the little ones? Or debates on how evil Columbus was? 7 yo? 9 yo? 12? High school? College?

Btw forget about phonics or math drills. Your parents can hire a tutor, we’re busy with the Joy of Learning the political movements of the day.

To answer you questions (in order as they appeared):

1. No school is teaching “three genders to second graders” for many reasons, not the least of which is because there are more than three genders.

2. No school requires “little ones” or even big ones, to participate in activist marches. Both 1 and 2 are right-wing propaganda designed to frighten parents who are already suspicious of ideas that seem “non-traditional.” But if we insisted on sticking to traditional beliefs and orthodoxies our medical schools would still have courses on applying leeches.

3. Yes, it is appropriate to teach, in HISTORY CLASS, about American history including the genocide that European conquerors enacted again indigenous peoples. Is it appropriate to teach German schoolchildren about the genocide of the Third Reich, or should we avoid that topic because it may make those kids feel uncomfortable to learn that their grandparents were Nazis and many of the modern Germany companies that still employ their parents were actively engaged in funding/arming/supporting the Third Reich? History class isn’t supposed to be a patriotic pep rally or a source of collective self-esteem. It’s about passing down historical facts from generation to generation so we can better (more accurately ) understand the world we live in and our place within it. Whitewashing Columbus is propaganda about American Exceptionalism. Why anyone feels invested a sanitized narrative of Columbus (who sailed in 1492) in
2023 is beyond me. It’s time to adjust to the reality of the historical facts (as best we now know them).

DP.

1. You are making OP's point, funny you with the untold number of genders

2. Anyone who has lived in DC the last few years knows you're lying.

3. That little paragraph includes 10+ red flags suggesting you're clueless about World/ US History. Again making OP's point -- the woke orthodoxy has taken over many/ most DC schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there actually some “fancy pants private school” policy or event that people want to debate about as being “too woke?” People already have claws out and hurling insults, but it’s already getting boring because there is no defined topic of debate.

Fair point, but I actually think this thread (so far) has been less insult-hurling than might be expected. Maybe a few things were unnecessary (e.g. the FoxNews thing, the thing about Matt Yglesias, and the unnecessarily patronizing use of the word "adorable" [which I immediately regretted]). I do think identifying specific, objective things that have actually happened at a school (not just a fear that something might happen) would move the conversation forward.

OP identified the academic freedom crisis at Hamline, but that's a college situation, not a K-12. And, to be fair, most of those in the academic world (who otherwise overwhelmingly tend to support DEI) agree that the administration made a terrible decision. This was a case of an administration implementing a customer-service model of problem-solving (not upsetting the paying student-customers is the most important criterion in decision-making) rather than truly trying to implement DEI values. A student complained, and that panicked the administration, lest the school be regarded as intolerant. That's not a smart or nuanced approached to an issue of academic freedom.

What has *actually happened* at your area K-12 that has people genuinely concerned that "wokeness" has gone too far. And please no vague nonsense about making kids feel guilty about being white or whatnot. An actual, specific incident, lesson, event, or policy implementation that caused your concern.

OP here. To be honest not really. But the recent changes middle school and high school curriculums seem to indicate that they are going in that direction. I mean I don't have the problem with the specific changes they made but the terminology they are using makes me think they have been taken over by DEI types. When I say terminology I am thinking of their use of words like "centering," "your truth," "generational trauma," "microaggressions." "BIPOC"... you get my drift. What's funny is I believe that generational trauma is a real thing but the way it is used these days minimizes actual generational trauma. I don't know if I will pull my girls out but its just getting to be too much for me. Probably the best solution is for me to move back home! But that would require uprooting our lives here. Plus we would need to find jobs which is never easy

Ok well another very obvious solution is to choose a different school that better aligns with your values