Pros and cons of Loudoun's version of TJ (AOS) vs. TJ model -- part time vs. full time

[Anonymous]

Are you familiar with the way Loudoun is structuring their Academy of Sciences/Engineering vs. the TJ model? AOS will host kids who qualify every other day -- so every kid who goes there will still take classes (like history and english) at his/her base HS. Then they go to AOS on certain days for their science/tech/math classes. They will be able to serve 2500 kids... and those kids still get to have their neighborhood connections and local high school experience.

As I was reading the other thread about Sci Olym., and the discussion of TJ and who gets into what college.. etc. I just wondered if there was some sense in the way Loudoun is planning to schedule their academy. If TJ is really all about excellence in Sci/Tech/Math, then there really isn't a need for kids to take up space taking engl/hist/band/orch/etc. there.

With block scheduling, it makes a lot of sense to me -- that the academy focuses on sci/math instruction. https://www.lcps.org/domain/4823

What do you think?

[Anonymous]

To start with, TJ's English, history and Spanish classes are also off the charts difficult. It may be a STEM school, but the kids are also working very hard in other academic subjects. They are much, much more rigorous than the equivalent base school classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To start with, TJ's English, history and Spanish classes are also off the charts difficult. It may be a STEM school, but the kids are also working very hard in other academic subjects. They are much, much more rigorous than the equivalent base school classes.

maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe these kids wouldn't be so stressed and getting anti-anxiety meds and therapy if they had some classes that were *only* AP level... the ones that aren't science and tech related.

[Anonymous]

Practically speaking, for kids in Loudoun who can apply to both, one advantage is the shorter bus ride and the later start time. High school in LCPS begins at 9:00, so students aren't on the bus in the early morning, trying to sleep on their long ride to TJ.

And, OP, you do know that AOS already exists, right? It's expanding in the next few years when the new campus opens, but the program has been running out of Dominion High School for years now. Hopefully parents of current students can give their input as to the scheduling and its benefits/drawbacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Practically speaking, for kids in Loudoun who can apply to both, one advantage is the shorter bus ride and the later start time. High school in LCPS begins at 9:00, so students aren't on the bus in the early morning, trying to sleep on their long ride to TJ.

And, OP, you do know that AOS already exists, right? It's expanding in the next few years when the new campus opens, but the program has been running out of Dominion High School for years now. Hopefully parents of current students can give their input as to the scheduling and its benefits/drawbacks.

You do know that I'm not asking b/c my kid is considering going to AOS? I'm asking for people's opinions about structuring TJ to be more like the AOS model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Practically speaking, for kids in Loudoun who can apply to both, one advantage is the shorter bus ride and the later start time. High school in LCPS begins at 9:00, so students aren't on the bus in the early morning, trying to sleep on their long ride to TJ.

And, OP, you do know that AOS already exists, right? It's expanding in the next few years when the new campus opens, but the program has been running out of Dominion High School for years now. Hopefully parents of current students can give their input as to the scheduling and its benefits/drawbacks.

You do know that I'm not asking b/c my kid is considering going to AOS? I'm asking for people's opinions about structuring TJ to be more like the AOS model.

How could PP know that? I too thought from the original post ("is structuring", "will host", "will be able") that you were describing something new or even in the works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Practically speaking, for kids in Loudoun who can apply to both, one advantage is the shorter bus ride and the later start time. High school in LCPS begins at 9:00, so students aren't on the bus in the early morning, trying to sleep on their long ride to TJ.

And, OP, you do know that AOS already exists, right? It's expanding in the next few years when the new campus opens, but the program has been running out of Dominion High School for years now. Hopefully parents of current students can give their input as to the scheduling and its benefits/drawbacks.

You do know that I'm not asking b/c my kid is considering going to AOS? I'm asking for people's opinions about structuring TJ to be more like the AOS model.

How could PP know that? I too thought from the original post ("is structuring", "will host", "will be able") that you were describing something new or even in the works.

You and the PP are missing the point of the post. The point is not to debate whether it exists, the point is to discuss the format of the program where kids are connected to their base HS for non-sci/math/tech classes and then go to the academy for sci/math/tech classes vs. the TJ model where kids are no longer part of their neighborhood school and take all classes at TJ.

[Anonymous]

I think this entire post highlights why it is not enough to give kids a strong STEM education only. Success in life (and writing a coherent DCUM post) also requires an ability to communicate clearly.

AOS kids will never hold their own with TJ kids if they are not getting the strong English foundation you need for the verbal section of the PSAT and SAT or the English, history and foreign language background to ace the APs and SAT subject tests in these areas. They will also not have the ability to write strong college essays.

I would also hate for my kid to attend 2 schools, PT each. There is a good chance you end up feeling like you don't really belong in either place. The TJ model makes you part of your school community. Things like Hack TJ, iNite, homecoming, freshman lock-in and ANGP are unique to TJ and create a sense of community.

I see no upside to the AOS model except it can serve more kids. Which is not entirely positive. Are there really 600-700 kids a year from Loudoun Co. alone who can perform at the level of TJ kids? It seems doubtful. So what you get is a watered down, less rigorous curriculum in STEM and a base school level curriculum in everything else.

[Anonymous]

A good base school in FCPS is better than AOS model as it offers good AP/IB rigor, plenty of courses in STEM and non-STEM subjects and one school advantage without any watering down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good base school in FCPS is better than AOS model as it offers good AP/IB rigor, plenty of courses in STEM and non-STEM subjects and one school advantage without any watering down.

Very true. And since the top 1/3 to 1/2 of FCPS base schools out perform the very top LCPS base school, the English, history and foreign language that the "top" STEM kids get is going to be pretty mediocre. (with "top" in quotes, because the talent pool in LCPS is just not so deep that 2500 kids could keep up with a TJ level STEM curriculum. Especially without a rigorous AAP type feeder program to build on). 9th grade seems to be too young to put everything into STEM and half-ass everything else. College-- sure. But not high school.

OP-- I think you are making two assumptions that show you have never had a kid at TJ, and don't really understand what it is or how it works. One: TJ is a rigorous in non- STEM classes as it is in STEM. English, History and Foreign language are also taught at the college level. My kid's toughest class this year? Immersion Spanish 2 (UGGHH). Junior year, APUSH has the reputation of being the toughest class. So no, it isn't a waste of TJ space to teach non- STEM there. Because freshman English at TJ is a whole different level than honors English at the strongest base schools. And that continues in the non-STEM classes throughout TJ.

And secondly, TJ kids don't get a "normal" base school high school experience-- because TJ is not a normal high school. And the kids certainly are not normal high school kids. But, there is a lot of school spirit and sense of community. TJ kids are no missing something because the are not at their base school. They play the full range of sports, do marching band, cheerlead, join the dance team, go to the homecoming dance and prom and all the other "normal" high school things. They just do it TJ's way. So, while no one actually attends most football games as a spectator, unless they are related to a member of the band or football team, 500 kids just attended Hack TJ, with 200 kids on the waitlist. Hundreds of kids participated in iNite, which sold out the GMU Arts Center in 10 minutes. And most TJ kids feel more connected to TJ than they ever would to a base school, where they not ever really fit in.

AOS sounds like Loudoun doesn't have the talent to support a full blown TJ, so they are watering its down and providing some specialized STEM to pretty much any kid who can handle 8th grade geometry. Nothing wrong with that-- it's great that many more kids will have the opportunity. But you can't take twice as many kids for AOS and all of Fairfax County (with the AAP Pipeline) sends to TJ, only have them take 1/2 their classes their, and expect to replicate the TJ experience or TJ results. That's not realistic.

[Anonymous]

I was looking on the AOS website. Interesting that they do not teach math above multivariable/linear, which are standard offerings in any FCPS base school. What do kids who take A2/Trig or Pre-Calc in 8th grade take? How to they access more advanced math offerings?

It also looks like they have no CS program, and no enginineering/technology program? How is that possible? TJ requires Design Tech and CS (taught at an AP level) before the end of sophomore year, and a huge array of Engineering, Technology and CS offerings, up to and including senior research. How do AOS kids access those classes?

Mostly, what is AOS teaching that you can't get at Chantilly High School?

[Anonymous]

The engineering program is under the AET umbrella. AET is new.

https://www.lcps.org/aet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The engineering program is under the AET umbrella. AET is new.

https://www.lcps.org/aet

Can you do AOS & AET. Or do you have to choose between SM and ET? There's a lot of overlap between say, math and engineering and science & tech. And CS applies to all of these. How do these programs accommodate this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you familiar with the way Loudoun is structuring their Academy of Sciences/Engineering vs. the TJ model? AOS will host kids who qualify every other day -- so every kid who goes there will still take classes (like history and english) at his/her base HS. Then they go to AOS on certain days for their science/tech/math classes. They will be able to serve 2500 kids... and those kids still get to have their neighborhood connections and local high school experience.

As I was reading the other thread about Sci Olym., and the discussion of TJ and who gets into what college.. etc. I just wondered if there was some sense in the way Loudoun is planning to schedule their academy. If TJ is really all about excellence in Sci/Tech/Math, then there really isn't a need for kids to take up space taking engl/hist/band/orch/etc. there.

With block scheduling, it makes a lot of sense to me -- that the academy focuses on sci/math instruction. https://www.lcps.org/domain/4823

What do you think?

The primary reason that AOS is part-time is because there isn't the current infrastructure to support a full-time program. It is a very small "sub-school" working out of Dominion HS. There are limited classrooms dedicated to AOS within Dominion. That is why Loudoun is creating the new Academies of Loudoun (AET/AOS/Monroe) school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this entire post highlights why it is not enough to give kids a strong STEM education only. Success in life (and writing a coherent DCUM post) also requires an ability to communicate clearly.

AOS kids will never hold their own with TJ kids if they are not getting the strong English foundation you need for the verbal section of the PSAT and SAT or the English, history and foreign language background to ace the APs and SAT subject tests in these areas. They will also not have the ability to write strong college essays.

I would also hate for my kid to attend 2 schools, PT each. There is a good chance you end up feeling like you don't really belong in either place. The TJ model makes you part of your school community. Things like Hack TJ, iNite, homecoming, freshman lock-in and ANGP are unique to TJ and create a sense of community.

I see no upside to the AOS model except it can serve more kids. Which is not entirely positive. Are there really 600-700 kids a year from Loudoun Co. alone who can perform at the level of TJ kids? It seems doubtful. So what you get is a watered down, less rigorous curriculum in STEM and a base school level curriculum in everything else.

Answering your question: There are almost 24,000 students (in Loudoun) in grades 9-12. I'm confident that there are a few hundred smart ones.