TJ's doors have always been closed to a supermajority of those students. Creating a situation where, say, Alg2 students were automatically granted admission to TJ (or given an enormous advantage) would re-create the horrific race to advance students beyond their realistic capabilities. When you do this, students will come up with a way to compensate - and that's why we had an enormous cheating problem at TJ for over a decade. |
The advanced students are usually kind to help out the Algebra 1 students. But how do the Algebra 1 students reconcile to themselves that they'll have to compete with those advanced peers two years ahead for college admissions? |
It is very nice of you! Seems like you care about those Algebra 1 students very much! Such a wonderful person! |
Just shift the focus, from focusing on schools as the delivery for this change, to other already existing frameworks. Im not saying don't do anything, just stop trying to do it through structural school changes like curriculum, standards, and admissions. It's illogical and damaging. There have been test results that you can see beyond how many kids with algebra have been admitted. The drop in PSATs and SOLs are real. Again, tests matter. I don't care if the school was 100% of any particular race if it was based on merit. diversity in race is meaningless. diversity in thought, experience, capabilities matters most. I reject your question. burger flippers don't flip burgers forever. people move between lower and lower middle and middle class income brackets all the time. It's truly difficult to make it to upper class, but this idea that we are going to expect burger flippers to support themselves and a family as a burger flipper is idiotic. class mobility is real. And an honest question on this would at least recognize this. |
Cool. So there's actual evidence coming from an expert in the field that it's inappropriate for kids to throw at greater than 90 mph. Do you have similar evidence that it's inappropriate or harmful for kids to take Algebra before 7th grade? Your argument seems to be based on your feelings that kids' brains aren't ready. Your feelings are worthless without supporting evidence. |
Both sides are true. FCPS opened the doors to lower income kids who are talented, but have lacked opportunities. They've also opened the door to completely mediocre kids in the middle to high SES schools. It's great that Algebra I kids at high FARMS schools are being given a chance. It's ludicrous that Algebra I kids at Longfellow, Rocky Run, Carson, etc. are getting in. Those are privileged kids who despite the enrichment and tutoring couldn't meet the bar for Algebra in 7th grade. For many FCPS AAP centers, there are 100+ kids applying who all look roughly the same on paper when using the pretty sparse TJ application process. It would make more sense to penalize kids from those schools who are only in Algebra I than it is to split hairs between kids' portrait of a graduate essays when deciding on admissions. |
This is incorrect. There has been a drop in PSATs and SOLs across the board in Virginia due to the pandemic. TJ is not an exception, however much we might have hoped that it would be. But there's no way to draw a conclusion from the data that we have, that the students admitted under the new admissions process are "lower quality" than previous. Maybe in the next few years we will have that data. But right now, learning loss from the pandemic is obscuring it. |
It's unfair to the Algebra1 kids to be thrown into the deep end with advanced learners and expecting them to level up to their peers. |
I don't think that's correct either. Many kids take Algebra I in 8th grade all over the world and are still advanced learners. I just think they should have something else that really shows TJ is a good place for them. |
1) To what pre-existing frameworks are you referring? Be specific... 2) It is something of a tautology that when you remove standardized exam performance as a gatekeeper for admissions, that standardized exam performance in the resulting class will drop. That information - to the extent it exists or is attributable directly to the admissions question - isn't particularly relevant. 3) I think to some extent you're correct, but I also think it's really difficult to decouple race from experience in this country. Hopefully some day that won't be the case, but any observer operating in good faith would have to acknowledge that fundamental truth. 4) We're no longer living in a world where burger-flipping, especially in urban and suburban areas, is a job for 16-year-olds over the summer. It is a full-time job that people do for a living and deserves respect. While I grant you that raising a family on a single burger-flipping income probably isn't realistic, we also shouldn't exist in a world where a family on two burger-flipping incomes can't raise enough children to replace themselves. The bottom line is that someone has to do that job, and many other minimum-wage jobs that are considered "unskilled", in order for society to continue to function in the way that it does today. Consigning those people to poverty while insisting that their jobs continue to exist is cruel. |
Math is only one subject. And they're not being thrown into math classes with kids that have taken Geometry already. That statement has no (or negative) value. |
1) No. You don't seem to be disputing that schools shouldn't be the place for solving family issues and Im not saying 'do nothing.' At this point, it's a different discussion I am not interested in having. 2) Tests matter. It's core to academics. Admissions for an advanced academic institution should require testing. It's how we judge everything in academics including progress of students throughout the year, and whether they have met the standards of a given grade or subject. Testing is extremely relevant. Lowered performance indicates declining standards of admissions for an academic institution. Colleges are publishing their TO results that show the same. 3) Sure but race doesn't equal experience and I would say is a small contributor and shouldn't be used as a proxy. You want to give it more weight maybe? I still reject it as meaningless in my merit-focused view about the school. 4) Again. People don't stay burger flippers forever. You neglected to address that point again. During a period of time in their lives, burger flippers will move onto other jobs. Your example is a bad one. Ultimately, my original point stands, schools can't solve the familial issues. I think we will just have to agree to disagree that poverty is solvable, that testing doesn't matter, and that schools should have a certain racial makeup? Have a good evening. |
At neighborhood schools, there's always a range in proficiency and classes geared to different skill levels. The ramifications of being at the bottom rung are more draconian at TJ, because those kids simply can't escape questions as to whether they really belong at the school, no matter how "kind" the advanced students purport to be. You don't have that dynamic at a school that isn't so obviously defined by its exclusivity. |
The smart ones realize they don't need to compete. As a result, they'll actually enjoy and learn for the sake of learning. |
Another way of saying this would be "we shouldn't send kids who are in Alg1 to TJ because people are going to be jerks and question their legitimacy". I'm not really into the idea of letting the jerks win. |