Why is being a National Merit Finalist a big deal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a big deal

Really?
Do you really think that scoring in the top on 1.5M people is not a big deal?

Scoring well on a practice algebra/trig test is not a big deal.

[Anonymous]

For my parent, it was life changing. Child of a fireman. Was able to attend Cornell engineering full ride (after turning down MIT). No shortage of summer employment opportunities. No sure about today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:agree op

They should do a study and see where National Merit Finalists are at in their career and life 10, 25, 25+ years

I doubt they are at the top 1% of the society because they tested at the top 1%

35 years later, I'm an elementary school teacher!

Thank you for teaching!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The top 1% of 1.5 million people is 15000 people. That's a lot.

I don't think you understand math very well. Stay out of casinos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if places like Alabama, that give lots to NMFs, care if the student's SAT score is much lower?

-asking for a friend...

There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

It didn’t use to be that way is prob why there is a misconception. I was a finalist years ago and probably had a 200 point difference on the two exams.

I was a NMF more than 30 years ago and we did have to take the SAT to validate our scores. The high school sent in all the information about our courses and grades and recommendations, but I remember having to fill out the numbers for the National Merit program so that my SAT scores would be sent in so that I could move on from Semi Finalist to Finalist.

I was a NMS in 2000 and SAT absolutely counted. OTOH, I don't remember getting a recommendation from my school but maybe the counselor's office handled that for everyone who qualified?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

This is not true. You need to have a confirming score that matches or exceeds the Commended (National-level) score of 212. So, in DC (223 index), you could get a 1500 PSAT and still move to Finalist with a 1360 SAT (760RW + 600M, 76+76+60=212). Note that the SAT components are capped at the 760 PSAT level. I'm not sure if the confirming score is relevant to becoming a Scholar; I don't think it officially is, but may matter to some of the sponsors (NM, Corp, College).

Also, in the DMV, a qualifying PSAT is much higher than 1% of the 1.6M national PSAT test takers, and way, way higher than 1% of the 4+M high school seniors (0.2%?).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

This is not true. You need to have a confirming score that matches or exceeds the Commended (National-level) score of 212. So, in DC (223 index), you could get a 1500 PSAT and still move to Finalist with a 1360 SAT (760RW + 600M, 76+76+60=212). Note that the SAT components are capped at the 760 PSAT level. I'm not sure if the confirming score is relevant to becoming a Scholar; I don't think it officially is, but may matter to some of the sponsors (NM, Corp, College).

Also, in the DMV, a qualifying PSAT is much higher than 1% of the 1.6M national PSAT test takers, and way, way higher than 1% of the 4+M high school seniors (0.2%?).

You are confirming what I wrote while saying you're contradicting it. I said the SAT does matter and it is not based on PSAT alone, and you went on a rant that "that is not true" while ... laying out the required SAT scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

This is not true. You need to have a confirming score that matches or exceeds the Commended (National-level) score of 212. So, in DC (223 index), you could get a 1500 PSAT and still move to Finalist with a 1360 SAT (760RW + 600M, 76+76+60=212). Note that the SAT components are capped at the 760 PSAT level. I'm not sure if the confirming score is relevant to becoming a Scholar; I don't think it officially is, but may matter to some of the sponsors (NM, Corp, College).

Also, in the DMV, a qualifying PSAT is much higher than 1% of the 1.6M national PSAT test takers, and way, way higher than 1% of the 4+M high school seniors (0.2%?).

You are confirming what I wrote while saying you're contradicting it. I said the SAT does matter and it is not based on PSAT alone, and you went on a rant that "that is not true" while ... laying out the required SAT scores.

"but you need to score equally well on the SAT"

THIS IS NOT TRUE. Does that help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

This is not true. You need to have a confirming score that matches or exceeds the Commended (National-level) score of 212. So, in DC (223 index), you could get a 1500 PSAT and still move to Finalist with a 1360 SAT (760RW + 600M, 76+76+60=212). Note that the SAT components are capped at the 760 PSAT level. I'm not sure if the confirming score is relevant to becoming a Scholar; I don't think it officially is, but may matter to some of the sponsors (NM, Corp, College).

Also, in the DMV, a qualifying PSAT is much higher than 1% of the 1.6M national PSAT test takers, and way, way higher than 1% of the 4+M high school seniors (0.2%?).

You are confirming what I wrote while saying you're contradicting it. I said the SAT does matter and it is not based on PSAT alone, and you went on a rant that "that is not true" while ... laying out the required SAT scores.

"but you need to score equally well on the SAT"

THIS IS NOT TRUE. Does that help?

Your SAT scores have to confirm the PSAT scores. SAT scores matter. You cannot become a NMF based on PSAT alone. This is the point, as I said explicitly. Of course the scores don't have to be identical because it's a standard cutoff so some people will score higher or lower than their performance on the PSAT while still exceeding the cutoff for their state.

But the SAT scores, like the PSAT scores, must be higher than the cutoff set by the NMST. You have to beat the cutoff both times. You are correct (while being pedantic to the point of inanity) that the PSAT and SAT scores do not have to be identical for each applicant. But each person who advances to Finalist must have been above the cutoff for both tests, not just the PSAT.

Good luck on your kid's prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

This is not true. You need to have a confirming score that matches or exceeds the Commended (National-level) score of 212. So, in DC (223 index), you could get a 1500 PSAT and still move to Finalist with a 1360 SAT (760RW + 600M, 76+76+60=212). Note that the SAT components are capped at the 760 PSAT level. I'm not sure if the confirming score is relevant to becoming a Scholar; I don't think it officially is, but may matter to some of the sponsors (NM, Corp, College).

Also, in the DMV, a qualifying PSAT is much higher than 1% of the 1.6M national PSAT test takers, and way, way higher than 1% of the 4+M high school seniors (0.2%?).

You are confirming what I wrote while saying you're contradicting it. I said the SAT does matter and it is not based on PSAT alone, and you went on a rant that "that is not true" while ... laying out the required SAT scores.

"but you need to score equally well on the SAT"

THIS IS NOT TRUE. Does that help?

Your SAT scores have to confirm the PSAT scores. SAT scores matter. You cannot become a NMF based on PSAT alone. This is the point, as I said explicitly. Of course the scores don't have to be identical because it's a standard cutoff so some people will score higher or lower than their performance on the PSAT while still exceeding the cutoff for their state.

But the SAT scores, like the PSAT scores, must be higher than the cutoff set by the NMST. You have to beat the cutoff both times. You are correct (while being pedantic to the point of inanity) that the PSAT and SAT scores do not have to be identical for each applicant. But each person who advances to Finalist must have been above the cutoff for both tests, not just the PSAT.

Good luck on your kid's prep.

Actually, SAT scores do not matter (if you take the ACT as a confirming score). Everyone that spends 5 seconds learning about the NM program knows that a confirming score is required. What is less well known (as you would see from reviewing comments on College Confidential or the Compass Prep blog) is HOW the confirming score is calculated and used. There is no state-level cutoff for the SAT, which in the DMV is very relevant. I believe that my inane pedantic rant added value to the discussion, whereas yours did not.

As a practical matter, a DC resident who scores the required 1490+ on the PSAT is very unlikely to not generate a confirming score of 212 on a subsequent ACT/SAT given the natural predicted score increase of 50-60 points.

PSAT is today, so a little too late for prep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

This is not true. You need to have a confirming score that matches or exceeds the Commended (National-level) score of 212. So, in DC (223 index), you could get a 1500 PSAT and still move to Finalist with a 1360 SAT (760RW + 600M, 76+76+60=212). Note that the SAT components are capped at the 760 PSAT level. I'm not sure if the confirming score is relevant to becoming a Scholar; I don't think it officially is, but may matter to some of the sponsors (NM, Corp, College).

Also, in the DMV, a qualifying PSAT is much higher than 1% of the 1.6M national PSAT test takers, and way, way higher than 1% of the 4+M high school seniors (0.2%?).

You are confirming what I wrote while saying you're contradicting it. I said the SAT does matter and it is not based on PSAT alone, and you went on a rant that "that is not true" while ... laying out the required SAT scores.

"but you need to score equally well on the SAT"

THIS IS NOT TRUE. Does that help?

Your SAT scores have to confirm the PSAT scores. SAT scores matter. You cannot become a NMF based on PSAT alone. This is the point, as I said explicitly. Of course the scores don't have to be identical because it's a standard cutoff so some people will score higher or lower than their performance on the PSAT while still exceeding the cutoff for their state.

But the SAT scores, like the PSAT scores, must be higher than the cutoff set by the NMST. You have to beat the cutoff both times. You are correct (while being pedantic to the point of inanity) that the PSAT and SAT scores do not have to be identical for each applicant. But each person who advances to Finalist must have been above the cutoff for both tests, not just the PSAT.

Good luck on your kid's prep.

Actually, SAT scores do not matter (if you take the ACT as a confirming score). Everyone that spends 5 seconds learning about the NM program knows that a confirming score is required. What is less well known (as you would see from reviewing comments on College Confidential or the Compass Prep blog) is HOW the confirming score is calculated and used. There is no state-level cutoff for the SAT, which in the DMV is very relevant. I believe that my inane pedantic rant added value to the discussion, whereas yours did not.

As a practical matter, a DC resident who scores the required 1490+ on the PSAT is very unlikely to not generate a confirming score of 212 on a subsequent ACT/SAT given the natural predicted score increase of 50-60 points.

PSAT is today, so a little too late for prep

And yet, the person I was responding to, the comment you cut off from this entire exchange, did not know that. Which is why I responded to that person. And yet here you are saying "nobody needs that information" after erasing the fact that it was explicitly sought out. But hey, at least you got to unload all of your blog knowledge. Value add!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if places like Alabama, that give lots to NMFs, care if the student's SAT score is much lower?

-asking for a friend...

There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

Actually, what they asked (and what you conveniently did not just quote) is whether the score could be much lower. Not whether they needed to take the SAT. So, in reality, my answer is much more helpful to them and the rest of DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if places like Alabama, that give lots to NMFs, care if the student's SAT score is much lower?

-asking for a friend...

There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

Actually, what they asked (and what you conveniently did not just quote) is whether the score could be much lower. Not whether they needed to take the SAT. So, in reality, my answer is much more helpful to them and the rest of DCUM.

What on Earth? You cut the quote out, I responded to you, pointing out that the quote was gone. Your version of helpful is ... fascinating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if places like Alabama, that give lots to NMFs, care if the student's SAT score is much lower?

-asking for a friend...

There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

Actually, what they asked (and what you conveniently did not just quote) is whether the score could be much lower. Not whether they needed to take the SAT. So, in reality, my answer is much more helpful to them and the rest of DCUM.

What on Earth? You cut the quote out, I responded to you, pointing out that the quote was gone. Your version of helpful is ... fascinating.

Can the two of you please take this fight elsewhere? Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if places like Alabama, that give lots to NMFs, care if the student's SAT score is much lower?

-asking for a friend...

There's a strange misconception on this thread that you can become a NMF with a great PSAT score and SAT doesn't matter. That's incorrect. You can become a "Commended" student or Semifinalist based on the PSAT, but you need to score equally well on the SAT to advance to a Finalist or Scholar.

Actually, what they asked (and what you conveniently did not just quote) is whether the score could be much lower. Not whether they needed to take the SAT. So, in reality, my answer is much more helpful to them and the rest of DCUM.

What on Earth? You cut the quote out, I responded to you, pointing out that the quote was gone. Your version of helpful is ... fascinating.

Yeah, my bad. Multi-tasking. I thought you had continued the previous thread. But, the fact remains that they were not asking if the SAT needed to be taken, but whether it can be "much lower". For someone who got a 1490 out of 1520, I would argue that 1400 out of 1600 on a SAT/ACT is much lower but still would qualify for Finalist.