With med schools going debt-free.. expansion into other fields?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money rolls in for med students, enough for them to pay off their loan. Not sure of the wisdom of subsidizing a relatively lucrative profession. We would all be better served by subsidizing starving artists/musicians and/or other creative professions.

I can't agree with you here. My nephew just started his residency in a major city. He's 300,000 in debt with a young son and his wife is a teacher. He makes $56,000 a year working round the clock plus a mortgage. Point is, the level of debt is crushing for a couple with advanced degrees in two noble professions.. Another anecdote is my husbands law partner's daughter is $500,000 in debt after med school (a combination of undergrad and med school). She is choosing to work in a low income area in the South for a number of years (10? not sure exactly) in order to be eligible for debt forgiveness. Those that sign up for the medical profession are not in it for the money - maybe someday - but it is a very long road if your parents are not able to shell out an additional $300 K.

Residency is part of medical school/licensing. He's making more than many others. It was his choice to go to an expensive school. He will make much more later on. Plus, if they could not afford a house, they should have waited. They make $100K combined, maybe more.

DP. $100,000 combined is not a lot of money in many areas, including DC. You clearly don't value doctors and what they contribute to society. Unlike you, I'd prefer to subsidize doctors than starving artists and musicians. By your logic about the doctors waiting if they can't afford a house, maybe arstists should pick a different career if being an artist doesn't pay enough. Why do we need to subsidize them, after all, it is their choice to become artists.

Residency is a short period of time after which doctors make an average of $200k. Some specialties make $500k+ If medical school costs go down salaries should too.

My 7 years of residency and fellowship didn't feel short.

But they were your choice! You chose that level of specialization in order to make more money or pursue a professional interest! You could have done something shorter if you wanted.

I hope you never need a doctor in a specialty that takes years of residency. I'm not a doctor and none of my kids have any interest in the medical field, but I do see the inequity in imputing parents' income and assets to someone who is in grad school, even grad students who are married and in their thirties.

And how exactly is this related to the idea that if medical school costs less specialists should make less money? I’m not seeing the connection here. A lot of professionals do important jobs and make big sacrifices, that doesn’t necessarily mean they need to make a huge sum.

Let be real. the training to become a doctor sucks alot... you have to incentivize people to go through this.. otherwise you wont have that cardio-thoracic surgeon you desperately need because who in the world would go through pre med, med school and 7+ years of 100 hour work weeks to learn the craft otherwise??? Would you be OK with not having access to his speciality if you needed it because I guarantee it that on one would do that for a salary of 100K or less... come on.

This isn’t a thought experiment, dude... doctors earn less in other countries. They also pay less for schooling and can often start medical school out of high school, saving years of training. You could say “oh those doctors aren’t as good” except many of them come to the US.

If the US wants to pay less for healthcare, perhaps one of the many ways we need to do that is by paying less for the health provider, in addition to paying less for drugs and hospital visits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My respect for the professionals has gone down with them writing opioid prescriptions and the predatory billing

It is not a noble profession, the people are sharks like estate agents and corrupt cops. Nobody needs to think they are special just because they went to school

I think they are special because they might be able to save my life, not just because they went to school. Are there incompetent doctors? Yes. But I want the best of the best becoming doctors. I don't want potentially great doctors deterred by the increasing debt burden for med school. I feel the same way about teachers and teachers' salaries.

Your life can be saved by the fire brigade or even perhaps the police

But those people will not lie to you about how much they charge or hunt you down for extra money, lie to insurance companies
People go to med school for the money, no other ideals
And then they discovered big pharma incentives by prescribing opioids

Interestingly, the opioid crisis did not get as crazy in other countries. Perhaps there the doctors treat a different species

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money rolls in for med students, enough for them to pay off their loan. Not sure of the wisdom of subsidizing a relatively lucrative profession. We would all be better served by subsidizing starving artists/musicians and/or other creative professions.

I can't agree with you here. My nephew just started his residency in a major city. He's 300,000 in debt with a young son and his wife is a teacher. He makes $56,000 a year working round the clock plus a mortgage. Point is, the level of debt is crushing for a couple with advanced degrees in two noble professions.. Another anecdote is my husbands law partner's daughter is $500,000 in debt after med school (a combination of undergrad and med school). She is choosing to work in a low income area in the South for a number of years (10? not sure exactly) in order to be eligible for debt forgiveness. Those that sign up for the medical profession are not in it for the money - maybe someday - but it is a very long road if your parents are not able to shell out an additional $300 K.

Residency is part of medical school/licensing. He's making more than many others. It was his choice to go to an expensive school. He will make much more later on. Plus, if they could not afford a house, they should have waited. They make $100K combined, maybe more.

DP. $100,000 combined is not a lot of money in many areas, including DC. You clearly don't value doctors and what they contribute to society. Unlike you, I'd prefer to subsidize doctors than starving artists and musicians. By your logic about the doctors waiting if they can't afford a house, maybe arstists should pick a different career if being an artist doesn't pay enough. Why do we need to subsidize them, after all, it is their choice to become artists.

Residency is a short period of time after which doctors make an average of $200k. Some specialties make $500k+ If medical school costs go down salaries should too.

My 7 years of residency and fellowship didn't feel short.

But they were your choice! You chose that level of specialization in order to make more money or pursue a professional interest! You could have done something shorter if you wanted.

I hope you never need a doctor in a specialty that takes years of residency. I'm not a doctor and none of my kids have any interest in the medical field, but I do see the inequity in imputing parents' income and assets to someone who is in grad school, even grad students who are married and in their thirties.

And how exactly is this related to the idea that if medical school costs less specialists should make less money? I’m not seeing the connection here. A lot of professionals do important jobs and make big sacrifices, that doesn’t necessarily mean they need to make a huge sum.

Let be real. the training to become a doctor sucks alot... you have to incentivize people to go through this.. otherwise you wont have that cardio-thoracic surgeon you desperately need because who in the world would go through pre med, med school and 7+ years of 100 hour work weeks to learn the craft otherwise??? Would you be OK with not having access to his speciality if you needed it because I guarantee it that on one would do that for a salary of 100K or less... come on.

This isn’t a thought experiment, dude... doctors earn less in other countries. They also pay less for schooling and can often start medical school out of high school, saving years of training. You could say “oh those doctors aren’t as good” except many of them come to the US.

If the US wants to pay less for healthcare, perhaps one of the many ways we need to do that is by paying less for the health provider, in addition to paying less for drugs and hospital visits.

We aren’t other countries. Capitalist American kids won’t do this for free - they would go into law or finance... you see this with teaching- the pay is low here and many students don’t pursue the field as a result. Also those doctors move here because of the low pay in their counties

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My respect for the professionals has gone down with them writing opioid prescriptions and the predatory billing

It is not a noble profession, the people are sharks like estate agents and corrupt cops. Nobody needs to think they are special just because they went to school

I think they are special because they might be able to save my life, not just because they went to school. Are there incompetent doctors? Yes. But I want the best of the best becoming doctors. I don't want potentially great doctors deterred by the increasing debt burden for med school. I feel the same way about teachers and teachers' salaries.

Your life can be saved by the fire brigade or even perhaps the police

But those people will not lie to you about how much they charge or hunt you down for extra money, lie to insurance companies
People go to med school for the money, no other ideals
And then they discovered big pharma incentives by prescribing opioids

Interestingly, the opioid crisis did not get as crazy in other countries. Perhaps there the doctors treat a different species

As a minority I'm way less afraid of doctors than the police. Police may not lie about how much they charge (because they don't charge anything), but many have planted evidence or lied, resulting in innocent people going to jail. Some for life. Having said that, other police officers do a good job and protect our communities, so I have no problem with them getting paid more. That doesn't negate the fact that I want the best minds becoming doctors so in the unfortunate event that I need major surgery, I have someone competent. There are many doctors who become doctors for ideals other than money. If money is their only goal (with no interest in helping others) maybe big law or investment banking would be a better choice. I'm not sure why you are so jaded about/resentful toward doctors but I don't feel that same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money rolls in for med students, enough for them to pay off their loan. Not sure of the wisdom of subsidizing a relatively lucrative profession. We would all be better served by subsidizing starving artists/musicians and/or other creative professions.

I can't agree with you here. My nephew just started his residency in a major city. He's 300,000 in debt with a young son and his wife is a teacher. He makes $56,000 a year working round the clock plus a mortgage. Point is, the level of debt is crushing for a couple with advanced degrees in two noble professions.. Another anecdote is my husbands law partner's daughter is $500,000 in debt after med school (a combination of undergrad and med school). She is choosing to work in a low income area in the South for a number of years (10? not sure exactly) in order to be eligible for debt forgiveness. Those that sign up for the medical profession are not in it for the money - maybe someday - but it is a very long road if your parents are not able to shell out an additional $300 K.

Residency is part of medical school/licensing. He's making more than many others. It was his choice to go to an expensive school. He will make much more later on. Plus, if they could not afford a house, they should have waited. They make $100K combined, maybe more.

DP. $100,000 combined is not a lot of money in many areas, including DC. You clearly don't value doctors and what they contribute to society. Unlike you, I'd prefer to subsidize doctors than starving artists and musicians. By your logic about the doctors waiting if they can't afford a house, maybe arstists should pick a different career if being an artist doesn't pay enough. Why do we need to subsidize them, after all, it is their choice to become artists.

Residency is a short period of time after which doctors make an average of $200k. Some specialties make $500k+ If medical school costs go down salaries should too.

My 7 years of residency and fellowship didn't feel short.

But they were your choice! You chose that level of specialization in order to make more money or pursue a professional interest! You could have done something shorter if you wanted.

I hope you never need a doctor in a specialty that takes years of residency. I'm not a doctor and none of my kids have any interest in the medical field, but I do see the inequity in imputing parents' income and assets to someone who is in grad school, even grad students who are married and in their thirties.

And how exactly is this related to the idea that if medical school costs less specialists should make less money? I’m not seeing the connection here. A lot of professionals do important jobs and make big sacrifices, that doesn’t necessarily mean they need to make a huge sum.

Let be real. the training to become a doctor sucks alot... you have to incentivize people to go through this.. otherwise you wont have that cardio-thoracic surgeon you desperately need because who in the world would go through pre med, med school and 7+ years of 100 hour work weeks to learn the craft otherwise??? Would you be OK with not having access to his speciality if you needed it because I guarantee it that on one would do that for a salary of 100K or less... come on.

This isn’t a thought experiment, dude... doctors earn less in other countries. They also pay less for schooling and can often start medical school out of high school, saving years of training. You could say “oh those doctors aren’t as good” except many of them come to the US.

If the US wants to pay less for healthcare, perhaps one of the many ways we need to do that is by paying less for the health provider, in addition to paying less for drugs and hospital visits.

We aren’t other countries. Capitalist American kids won’t do this for free - they would go into law or finance... you see this with teaching- the pay is low here and many students don’t pursue the field as a result. Also those doctors move here because of the low pay in their counties

These are straw man arguments. No one said that doctors should work for free. And physicians make a lot more than lawyers- the average lawyer salary is around 70k and the average physician salary is 200k.

Plenty of people are highly educated and make less, including PhDs, medical researchers, and excellent teachers.

And since you are saying this foreign doctors are willing to come over, perhaps they are willing to leave those low pay countries just for a visa, like other science professionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My respect for the professionals has gone down with them writing opioid prescriptions and the predatory billing

It is not a noble profession, the people are sharks like estate agents and corrupt cops. Nobody needs to think they are special just because they went to school

I think they are special because they might be able to save my life, not just because they went to school. Are there incompetent doctors? Yes. But I want the best of the best becoming doctors. I don't want potentially great doctors deterred by the increasing debt burden for med school. I feel the same way about teachers and teachers' salaries.

Your life can be saved by the fire brigade or even perhaps the police

But those people will not lie to you about how much they charge or hunt you down for extra money, lie to insurance companies
People go to med school for the money, no other ideals
And then they discovered big pharma incentives by prescribing opioids

Interestingly, the opioid crisis did not get as crazy in other countries. Perhaps there the doctors treat a different species

As a minority I'm way less afraid of doctors than the police. Police may not lie about how much they charge (because they don't charge anything), but many have planted evidence or lied, resulting in innocent people going to jail. Some for life. Having said that, other police officers do a good job and protect our communities, so I have no problem with them getting paid more. That doesn't negate the fact that I want the best minds becoming doctors so in the unfortunate event that I need major surgery, I have someone competent. There are many doctors who become doctors for ideals other than money. If money is their only goal (with no interest in helping others) maybe big law or investment banking would be a better choice. I'm not sure why you are so jaded about/resentful toward doctors but I don't feel that same way.

I’ve had doctors misdiagnose my child’s medical condition because they refused to look at her carefully or listen to me, recommend medications that would do more harm than good, leave me in the ER even though I needed emergency surgery because they did not want to leave home and come to the hospital, recommend surgery when I did not need it. I have also had a doctor who sexually harassed me. I have also had wonderful doctors who saved me from a lot of pain. I have seen a lot of doctors do a lot of unethical things.

But doctors are of extremely varying quality in this country.

[Anonymous]

With all the horror stories about doctors,m on here, it seems this country is in short supply of medical malpractice attorneys. If future doctors are concerned about free tuition, I say we expand free tuition to future medical malpractice attorneys to clean up the medical field.