Muslim and Arab Killings in the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Honest question - not trying to be a hater - when your parents came over, did they think about changing their last name like how many Ellis islanders did?

So instead of "Mohammed" as your last name, you changed it to miller?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Well, Israel is an ideological and strategic ally. Meanwhile a not-insignificant portion of the Muslim population wants us to be subject to their religious laws even if we are non-believers. I believe it's important to draw a distinction between being against a set of ideals versus being against a population that may be associated with regional practice of those ideals. Saying that we need to subject Muslim immigrants to more scrutiny is not the same as saying that we are anti-Muslim. That's a straw-man. Again, I don't particularly like Trump and his exact position on this is quite foggy. I'd rather not assume the most extremist thing he has ever said is representative of where he is at on this issue. I know I've said some pretty stupid things in the past and if people always judged me by my worst behavior, I'd be marked as a pretty horrible person. I mean I used snakes as an example for stereotyping Muslims - in the name of all things secular, where was my decency?

I would argue -- and I think I am undeniably correct ago about this -- that it is impossible to both deny someone is prejudiced and simultaneously justify their prejudice. Please take a minute to decide whether your argument is that Trump is not anti-Arab and anti-Muslim or whether he is, in fact, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim but for good reason. Also, please keep your day job. Your dreams of making it as a comedian are not going to work out.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any chance you might acknowledge the attack was wrong?
That's my point. The majority of religious hate crimes are against Jews - and particularly on campuses - and Obama doesn't say a word to discourage the rise in antisemitism while speaking out (rightly) against bigotry toward Muslims and blacks.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/03/03/ucla-student-government-questions-judicial-board-nominee-being-jewish

Have you commented on the actual killings that I mentioned when starting this thread? Before you complain about a lack of acknowledgement about off-topic incidents, maybe you should do that first? Also, as I pointed out Obama has spoken out against anti-Semitism. No major American politician has spoken in favor of anti-Semitism. However, Trump does openly espouse anti-Muslim and anti-Arab policies. Might you stop your Google searches long enough to acknowledge that difference?

I would agree that not speaking in favor of Antisemitism is definitely a plus for Obama. Two big enthusiastic thumbs up. At the same time, Obama has a knack of addressing relatively smaller issues while ignoring relatively larger ones. His actions has an amplifying effect because people expect his office to focus on the big issues. As an example, having being brought to full attention by Obama of hate crimes against Muslims, you as a forum moderator are now more suspicious of the intent of conservatives who make posts that you regard as anti-Muslim, causing you to more intensely scrutinize posts being made in your forum on this topic, even going so far as to exclude some of those people from participating in your forum by deleting their posts/threads or even banning them outright (please don't ban me ). You are doing this even though there is no evidence of widespread systemic hate crimes against Muslims in the US. In effect, Obama's actions panders to the fears of people who care deeply about this issue, like the PPs that indicated they are fearful of their future in this country. It has the effect of pulling that minority group closer to Obama, but divides the rest of us as the result of identity politics. I don't condone Trump's actions and words if they have caused anti-Muslim hate crimes. Similarly I don't condone Obama's actions because they are deeply divisive to our nation. You'd think US race relations would be better after having a black president for 8 years. Consider that next time you think Obama's words about Muslims will help American Muslims.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any chance you might acknowledge the attack was wrong?
That's my point. The majority of religious hate crimes are against Jews - and particularly on campuses - and Obama doesn't say a word to discourage the rise in antisemitism while speaking out (rightly) against bigotry toward Muslims and blacks.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/03/03/ucla-student-government-questions-judicial-board-nominee-being-jewish

Have you commented on the actual killings that I mentioned when starting this thread? Before you complain about a lack of acknowledgement about off-topic incidents, maybe you should do that first? Also, as I pointed out Obama has spoken out against anti-Semitism. No major American politician has spoken in favor of anti-Semitism. However, Trump does openly espouse anti-Muslim and anti-Arab policies. Might you stop your Google searches long enough to acknowledge that difference?

I would agree that not speaking in favor of Antisemitism is definitely a plus for Obama. Two big enthusiastic thumbs up. At the same time, Obama has a knack of addressing relatively smaller issues while ignoring relatively larger ones. His actions has an amplifying effect because people expect his office to focus on the big issues. As an example, having being brought to full attention by Obama of hate crimes against Muslims, you as a forum moderator are now more suspicious of the intent of conservatives who make posts that you regard as anti-Muslim, causing you to more intensely scrutinize posts being made in your forum on this topic, even going so far as to exclude some of those people from participating in your forum by deleting their posts/threads or even banning them outright (please don't ban me ). You are doing this even though there is no evidence of widespread systemic hate crimes against Muslims in the US. In effect, Obama's actions panders to the fears of people who care deeply about this issue, like the PPs that indicated they are fearful of their future in this country. It has the effect of pulling that minority group closer to Obama, but divides the rest of us as the result of identity politics. I don't condone Trump's actions and words if they have caused anti-Muslim hate crimes. Similarly I don't condone Obama's actions because they are deeply divisive to our nation. You'd think US race relations would be better after having a black president for 8 years. Consider that next time you think Obama's words about Muslims will help American Muslims.

Earlier I thought you were well-meaning but misinformed. Now you simply appear to be crazy. Obama gets two thumbs up from you for not promoting anti-Semitism, but gets no thumbs for actually speaking against it. Trump, on the other hand, gets excused for his anti-Muslim and anti-Arab statements, policies and positions. What kind of delusion is required to arrive at such a position?

Just FYI, I don't need Obama to inform me about anti-Muslim or anti-Arab prejudice in this country. My mother is an Arab. I have and have had numerous Arab and Muslim friends. One would have to have been trapped in an underground coal mine for the past year not to be aware of Trump's rhetoric. But, less you think my position is based only on a personal interest, I routinely delete anti-black posts. I assure you that I am not black. I routinely delete anti-gay posts and -- assuming the absence of deep-seated self-denial -- am not gay. I even delete anti-Semitic posts despite the claims by some that I am anti-Semitic for some reason. The difference is that -- with the possible exception of the anti-black posts -- nobody argues about whether or not they should be deleted. To the contrary, any delay in deleting them is met with a wave of criticism. But, anti-Muslim and anti-Arab posts are assumed by large numbers of our posters to be acceptable.

[Anonymous]

What did trump exactly say that is anti muslim that made people attack muslims? I am a latina voting for trump and noticed how much univision and other left wing sites skewed what trump said so he would appear to be racist towards all latinos. Not a joke when miorities are constantly lied to. Also have sikh relatives and i encourage then to vote trump and they are not living in fear as the op suggests. I agree with him that we are getting the worst of the worst. Criminals who are deported sneak back in from honduras or mexico within a year to commit more crimes. Just like the kids of salvadorans who are legal some do join ms13 but they are citizens. It js a cultural and religious issue with the kids of immigrants. There is little chance of extremism if the muslim family is progressive and do not follow their hadiths or koran to a T

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any chance you might acknowledge the attack was wrong?
That's my point. The majority of religious hate crimes are against Jews - and particularly on campuses - and Obama doesn't say a word to discourage the rise in antisemitism while speaking out (rightly) against bigotry toward Muslims and blacks.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/03/03/ucla-student-government-questions-judicial-board-nominee-being-jewish

Have you commented on the actual killings that I mentioned when starting this thread? Before you complain about a lack of acknowledgement about off-topic incidents, maybe you should do that first? Also, as I pointed out Obama has spoken out against anti-Semitism. No major American politician has spoken in favor of anti-Semitism. However, Trump does openly espouse anti-Muslim and anti-Arab policies. Might you stop your Google searches long enough to acknowledge that difference?

I would agree that not speaking in favor of Antisemitism is definitely a plus for Obama. Two big enthusiastic thumbs up. At the same time, Obama has a knack of addressing relatively smaller issues while ignoring relatively larger ones. His actions has an amplifying effect because people expect his office to focus on the big issues. As an example, having being brought to full attention by Obama of hate crimes against Muslims, you as a forum moderator are now more suspicious of the intent of conservatives who make posts that you regard as anti-Muslim, causing you to more intensely scrutinize posts being made in your forum on this topic, even going so far as to exclude some of those people from participating in your forum by deleting their posts/threads or even banning them outright (please don't ban me ). You are doing this even though there is no evidence of widespread systemic hate crimes against Muslims in the US. In effect, Obama's actions panders to the fears of people who care deeply about this issue, like the PPs that indicated they are fearful of their future in this country. It has the effect of pulling that minority group closer to Obama, but divides the rest of us as the result of identity politics. I don't condone Trump's actions and words if they have caused anti-Muslim hate crimes. Similarly I don't condone Obama's actions because they are deeply divisive to our nation. You'd think US race relations would be better after having a black president for 8 years. Consider that next time you think Obama's words about Muslims will help American Muslims.

Earlier I thought you were well-meaning but misinformed. Now you simply appear to be crazy. Obama gets two thumbs up from you for not promoting anti-Semitism, but gets no thumbs for actually speaking against it. Trump, on the other hand, gets excused for his anti-Muslim and anti-Arab statements, policies and positions. What kind of delusion is required to arrive at such a position?

Just FYI, I don't need Obama to inform me about anti-Muslim or anti-Arab prejudice in this country. My mother is an Arab. I have and have had numerous Arab and Muslim friends. One would have to have been trapped in an underground coal mine for the past year not to be aware of Trump's rhetoric. But, less you think my position is based only on a personal interest, I routinely delete anti-black posts. I assure you that I am not black. I routinely delete anti-gay posts and -- assuming the absence of deep-seated self-denial -- am not gay. I even delete anti-Semitic posts despite the claims by some that I am anti-Semitic for some reason. The difference is that -- with the possible exception of the anti-black posts -- nobody argues about whether or not they should be deleted. To the contrary, any delay in deleting them is met with a wave of criticism. But, anti-Muslim and anti-Arab posts are assumed by large numbers of our posters to be acceptable.

And Trump's rhetoric has made this hypocrisy acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Honest question - not trying to be a hater - when your parents came over, did they think about changing their last name like how many Ellis islanders did?

So instead of "Mohammed" as your last name, you changed it to miller?

PP here. To be honest with you, I have no idea, nor has it ever even dawned on me to ask that. At that time, I don't think he ever thought or anticipated the events that have now happened and likely didn't think he'd have any reason to change it. When my parents first came to this country, they lived in a tiny Tampa suburb and when I ask them about their experiences then ($214 to their name, spoke English but with a strong accent, etc.) vs. now, they experience far more discrimination now, here in the DC area, than they did in Tampa, where they were most certainly the outliers (looks, culture, name, everything).

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, Israel is an ideological and strategic ally. Meanwhile a not-insignificant portion of the Muslim population wants us to be subject to their religious laws even if we are non-believers. I believe it's important to draw a distinction between being against a set of ideals versus being against a population that may be associated with regional practice of those ideals. Saying that we need to subject Muslim immigrants to more scrutiny is not the same as saying that we are anti-Muslim. That's a straw-man. Again, I don't particularly like Trump and his exact position on this is quite foggy. I'd rather not assume the most extremist thing he has ever said is representative of where he is at on this issue. I know I've said some pretty stupid things in the past and if people always judged me by my worst behavior, I'd be marked as a pretty horrible person. I mean I used snakes as an example for stereotyping Muslims - in the name of all things secular, where was my decency?

I would argue -- and I think I am undeniably correct ago about this -- that it is impossible to both deny someone is prejudiced and simultaneously justify their prejudice. Please take a minute to decide whether your argument is that Trump is not anti-Arab and anti-Muslim or whether he is, in fact, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim but for good reason. Also, please keep your day job. Your dreams of making it as a comedian are not going to work out.

Well, I think we are having a semantic argument. Anti-Arab to me means someone is against people from Arab countries in general, as in, "you are an Arab, I don't like you and I don't care what you actually believe". Similarly, Anti-Muslim to me means being against people of Islam faith in general. I don't believe Trump is Anti-Arab or Anti-Muslim in this context. He can be against certain ideals held by many but not all Arabs or Muslims, but to characterize that as being anti-Arab or anti-Muslim is incorrect.

I'll give you another example. During the time period leading up to the US civil war, many people in the south supported slavery, and many did not. If you said you are anti-slavery, is that the same as being anti-South, meaning you don't like people from the South regardless of what they actually believe? I hope you can see the distinction being drawn here. Some pundits conflate being against certain ideals with being anti-Muslim or anti-Arab, but it's a mistake at best, and a dishonest attempt to mis-characterize the issue at worst.

There is no good reason to be against a general population of people, and I don't believe Trump holds such a position. I hope I am right on this one, not for the sake of wining an Internet argument, but I hope people have some basic goodness that we can rely on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any chance you might acknowledge the attack was wrong?
That's my point. The majority of religious hate crimes are against Jews - and particularly on campuses - and Obama doesn't say a word to discourage the rise in antisemitism while speaking out (rightly) against bigotry toward Muslims and blacks.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/03/03/ucla-student-government-questions-judicial-board-nominee-being-jewish

Have you commented on the actual killings that I mentioned when starting this thread? Before you complain about a lack of acknowledgement about off-topic incidents, maybe you should do that first? Also, as I pointed out Obama has spoken out against anti-Semitism. No major American politician has spoken in favor of anti-Semitism. However, Trump does openly espouse anti-Muslim and anti-Arab policies. Might you stop your Google searches long enough to acknowledge that difference?

I would agree that not speaking in favor of Antisemitism is definitely a plus for Obama. Two big enthusiastic thumbs up. At the same time, Obama has a knack of addressing relatively smaller issues while ignoring relatively larger ones. His actions has an amplifying effect because people expect his office to focus on the big issues. As an example, having being brought to full attention by Obama of hate crimes against Muslims, you as a forum moderator are now more suspicious of the intent of conservatives who make posts that you regard as anti-Muslim, causing you to more intensely scrutinize posts being made in your forum on this topic, even going so far as to exclude some of those people from participating in your forum by deleting their posts/threads or even banning them outright (please don't ban me ). You are doing this even though there is no evidence of widespread systemic hate crimes against Muslims in the US. In effect, Obama's actions panders to the fears of people who care deeply about this issue, like the PPs that indicated they are fearful of their future in this country. It has the effect of pulling that minority group closer to Obama, but divides the rest of us as the result of identity politics. I don't condone Trump's actions and words if they have caused anti-Muslim hate crimes. Similarly I don't condone Obama's actions because they are deeply divisive to our nation. You'd think US race relations would be better after having a black president for 8 years. Consider that next time you think Obama's words about Muslims will help American Muslims.

Earlier I thought you were well-meaning but misinformed. Now you simply appear to be crazy. Obama gets two thumbs up from you for not promoting anti-Semitism, but gets no thumbs for actually speaking against it. Trump, on the other hand, gets excused for his anti-Muslim and anti-Arab statements, policies and positions. What kind of delusion is required to arrive at such a position?

Just FYI, I don't need Obama to inform me about anti-Muslim or anti-Arab prejudice in this country. My mother is an Arab. I have and have had numerous Arab and Muslim friends. One would have to have been trapped in an underground coal mine for the past year not to be aware of Trump's rhetoric. But, less you think my position is based only on a personal interest, I routinely delete anti-black posts. I assure you that I am not black. I routinely delete anti-gay posts and -- assuming the absence of deep-seated self-denial -- am not gay. I even delete anti-Semitic posts despite the claims by some that I am anti-Semitic for some reason. The difference is that -- with the possible exception of the anti-black posts -- nobody argues about whether or not they should be deleted. To the contrary, any delay in deleting them is met with a wave of criticism. But, anti-Muslim and anti-Arab posts are assumed by large numbers of our posters to be acceptable.

And Trump's rhetoric has made this hypocrisy accept
able.

Not sure why libs are blaming trump. Take responsibility for your own actions! You think the hispanic man that killed the 2 imams is blaming trump for his actions? Most likely he is a democrat whose friends had a feud with the muslims since it was 2nd degree murder it wasnt premiditated. People constantly blaming trump pshh my relatives and i all latinos have been politically incorrect decades before trumps candidancy. Yeah believe it or not people who are real all the time exist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Honest question - not trying to be a hater - when your parents came over, did they think about changing their last name like how many Ellis islanders did?

So instead of "Mohammed" as your last name, you changed it to miller?

PP here. To be honest with you, I have no idea, nor has it ever even dawned on me to ask that. At that time, I don't think he ever thought or anticipated the events that have now happened and likely didn't think he'd have any reason to change it. When my parents first came to this country, they lived in a tiny Tampa suburb and when I ask them about their experiences then ($214 to their name, spoke English but with a strong accent, etc.) vs. now, they experience far more discrimination now, here in the DC area, than they did in Tampa, where they were most certainly the outliers (looks, culture, name, everything).

I'm Indian American and faced way more discrimination in dc and the north east than in bozeman mt, boulder, South Dakota or western Wyoming.

Sometimes when you are an outlier, local society looks at you as an individual and treats you as such and doesn't ascribe stereotypes to you.

In the northeast/mid atlantic, people are really quick to stereotype based on group because they feel like they've met a sufficient amount of your particular race/ethnicity/nationality to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, Israel is an ideological and strategic ally. Meanwhile a not-insignificant portion of the Muslim population wants us to be subject to their religious laws even if we are non-believers. I believe it's important to draw a distinction between being against a set of ideals versus being against a population that may be associated with regional practice of those ideals. Saying that we need to subject Muslim immigrants to more scrutiny is not the same as saying that we are anti-Muslim. That's a straw-man. Again, I don't particularly like Trump and his exact position on this is quite foggy. I'd rather not assume the most extremist thing he has ever said is representative of where he is at on this issue. I know I've said some pretty stupid things in the past and if people always judged me by my worst behavior, I'd be marked as a pretty horrible person. I mean I used snakes as an example for stereotyping Muslims - in the name of all things secular, where was my decency?

I would argue -- and I think I am undeniably correct ago about this -- that it is impossible to both deny someone is prejudiced and simultaneously justify their prejudice. Please take a minute to decide whether your argument is that Trump is not anti-Arab and anti-Muslim or whether he is, in fact, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim but for good reason. Also, please keep your day job. Your dreams of making it as a comedian are not going to work out.

Well, I think we are having a semantic argument. Anti-Arab to me means someone is against people from Arab countries in general, as in, "you are an Arab, I don't like you and I don't care what you actually believe". Similarly, Anti-Muslim to me means being against people of Islam faith in general. I don't believe Trump is Anti-Arab or Anti-Muslim in this context. He can be against certain ideals held by many but not all Arabs or Muslims, but to characterize that as being anti-Arab or anti-Muslim is incorrect.

I'll give you another example. During the time period leading up to the US civil war, many people in the south supported slavery, and many did not. If you said you are anti-slavery, is that the same as being anti-South, meaning you don't like people from the South regardless of what they actually believe? I hope you can see the distinction being drawn here. Some pundits conflate being against certain ideals with being anti-Muslim or anti-Arab, but it's a mistake at best, and a dishonest attempt to mis-characterize the issue at worst.

There is no good reason to be against a general population of people, and I don't believe Trump holds such a position. I hope I am right on this one, not for the sake of wining an Internet argument, but I hope people have some basic goodness that we can rely on.

Some of my best friends are [fill in specific demographic group here] so I couldn't possibly be a bigot.

I said that sarcastically but I should add that the reality is there are some people who are not in fact racist but use racism to make money or accumulate power. Trump could be one of those people. Maybe he doesn't hate all Muslims but he is finding it useful to stoke the fears other people have about Muslims. Which do you think is more despicable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, Israel is an ideological and strategic ally. Meanwhile a not-insignificant portion of the Muslim population wants us to be subject to their religious laws even if we are non-believers. I believe it's important to draw a distinction between being against a set of ideals versus being against a population that may be associated with regional practice of those ideals. Saying that we need to subject Muslim immigrants to more scrutiny is not the same as saying that we are anti-Muslim. That's a straw-man. Again, I don't particularly like Trump and his exact position on this is quite foggy. I'd rather not assume the most extremist thing he has ever said is representative of where he is at on this issue. I know I've said some pretty stupid things in the past and if people always judged me by my worst behavior, I'd be marked as a pretty horrible person. I mean I used snakes as an example for stereotyping Muslims - in the name of all things secular, where was my decency?

I would argue -- and I think I am undeniably correct ago about this -- that it is impossible to both deny someone is prejudiced and simultaneously justify their prejudice. Please take a minute to decide whether your argument is that Trump is not anti-Arab and anti-Muslim or whether he is, in fact, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim but for good reason. Also, please keep your day job. Your dreams of making it as a comedian are not going to work out.

Well, I think we are having a semantic argument. Anti-Arab to me means someone is against people from Arab countries in general, as in, "you are an Arab, I don't like you and I don't care what you actually believe". Similarly, Anti-Muslim to me means being against people of Islam faith in general. I don't believe Trump is Anti-Arab or Anti-Muslim in this context. He can be against certain ideals held by many but not all Arabs or Muslims, but to characterize that as being anti-Arab or anti-Muslim is incorrect.

I'll give you another example. During the time period leading up to the US civil war, many people in the south supported slavery, and many did not. If you said you are anti-slavery, is that the same as being anti-South, meaning you don't like people from the South regardless of what they actually believe? I hope you can see the distinction being drawn here. Some pundits conflate being against certain ideals with being anti-Muslim or anti-Arab, but it's a mistake at best, and a dishonest attempt to mis-characterize the issue at worst.

There is no good reason to be against a general population of people, and I don't believe Trump holds such a position. I hope I am right on this one, not for the sake of wining an Internet argument, but I hope people have some basic goodness that we can rely on.

Some of my best friends are [fill in specific demographic group here] so I couldn't possibly be a bigot.

I said that sarcastically but I should add that the reality is there are some people who are not in fact racist but use racism to make money or accumulate power. Trump could be one of those people. Maybe he doesn't hate all Muslims but he is finding it useful to stoke the fears other people have about Muslims. Which do you think is more despicable?

I think you have the string of terror attacks this summer to blame for that as well as the string of rapes, murder, and pedophilia in UK news that the liberal US media rarely shows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Honest question - not trying to be a hater - when your parents came over, did they think about changing their last name like how many Ellis islanders did?

So instead of "Mohammed" as your last name, you changed it to miller?

PP here. To be honest with you, I have no idea, nor has it ever even dawned on me to ask that. At that time, I don't think he ever thought or anticipated the events that have now happened and likely didn't think he'd have any reason to change it. When my parents first came to this country, they lived in a tiny Tampa suburb and when I ask them about their experiences then ($214 to their name, spoke English but with a strong accent, etc.) vs. now, they experience far more discrimination now, here in the DC area, than they did in Tampa, where they were most certainly the outliers (looks, culture, name, everything).

I'm Indian American and faced way more discrimination in dc and the north east than in bozeman mt, boulder, South Dakota or western Wyoming.

Sometimes when you are an outlier, local society looks at you as an individual and treats you as such and doesn't ascribe stereotypes to you.

In the northeast/mid atlantic, people are really quick to stereotype based on group because they feel like they've met a sufficient amount of your particular race/ethnicity/nationality to do so.

Are you guilty of stereotyping other races?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, Israel is an ideological and strategic ally. Meanwhile a not-insignificant portion of the Muslim population wants us to be subject to their religious laws even if we are non-believers. I believe it's important to draw a distinction between being against a set of ideals versus being against a population that may be associated with regional practice of those ideals. Saying that we need to subject Muslim immigrants to more scrutiny is not the same as saying that we are anti-Muslim. That's a straw-man. Again, I don't particularly like Trump and his exact position on this is quite foggy. I'd rather not assume the most extremist thing he has ever said is representative of where he is at on this issue. I know I've said some pretty stupid things in the past and if people always judged me by my worst behavior, I'd be marked as a pretty horrible person. I mean I used snakes as an example for stereotyping Muslims - in the name of all things secular, where was my decency?

I would argue -- and I think I am undeniably correct ago about this -- that it is impossible to both deny someone is prejudiced and simultaneously justify their prejudice. Please take a minute to decide whether your argument is that Trump is not anti-Arab and anti-Muslim or whether he is, in fact, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim but for good reason. Also, please keep your day job. Your dreams of making it as a comedian are not going to work out.

Well, I think we are having a semantic argument. Anti-Arab to me means someone is against people from Arab countries in general, as in, "you are an Arab, I don't like you and I don't care what you actually believe". Similarly, Anti-Muslim to me means being against people of Islam faith in general. I don't believe Trump is Anti-Arab or Anti-Muslim in this context. He can be against certain ideals held by many but not all Arabs or Muslims, but to characterize that as being anti-Arab or anti-Muslim is incorrect.

I'll give you another example. During the time period leading up to the US civil war, many people in the south supported slavery, and many did not. If you said you are anti-slavery, is that the same as being anti-South, meaning you don't like people from the South regardless of what they actually believe? I hope you can see the distinction being drawn here. Some pundits conflate being against certain ideals with being anti-Muslim or anti-Arab, but it's a mistake at best, and a dishonest attempt to mis-characterize the issue at worst.

There is no good reason to be against a general population of people, and I don't believe Trump holds such a position. I hope I am right on this one, not for the sake of wining an Internet argument, but I hope people have some basic goodness that we can rely on.

Some of my best friends are [fill in specific demographic group here] so I couldn't possibly be a bigot.

I said that sarcastically but I should add that the reality is there are some people who are not in fact racist but use racism to make money or accumulate power. Trump could be one of those people. Maybe he doesn't hate all Muslims but he is finding it useful to stoke the fears other people have about Muslims. Which do you think is more despicable?

I think you have the string of terror attacks this summer to blame for that as well as the string of rapes, murder, and pedophilia in UK news that the liberal US media rarely shows.

How does one go about stoking the fears of people in terms of incidents that the media rarely covers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, Israel is an ideological and strategic ally. Meanwhile a not-insignificant portion of the Muslim population wants us to be subject to their religious laws even if we are non-believers. I believe it's important to draw a distinction between being against a set of ideals versus being against a population that may be associated with regional practice of those ideals. Saying that we need to subject Muslim immigrants to more scrutiny is not the same as saying that we are anti-Muslim. That's a straw-man. Again, I don't particularly like Trump and his exact position on this is quite foggy. I'd rather not assume the most extremist thing he has ever said is representative of where he is at on this issue. I know I've said some pretty stupid things in the past and if people always judged me by my worst behavior, I'd be marked as a pretty horrible person. I mean I used snakes as an example for stereotyping Muslims - in the name of all things secular, where was my decency?

I would argue -- and I think I am undeniably correct ago about this -- that it is impossible to both deny someone is prejudiced and simultaneously justify their prejudice. Please take a minute to decide whether your argument is that Trump is not anti-Arab and anti-Muslim or whether he is, in fact, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim but for good reason. Also, please keep your day job. Your dreams of making it as a comedian are not going to work out.

Well, I think we are having a semantic argument. Anti-Arab to me means someone is against people from Arab countries in general, as in, "you are an Arab, I don't like you and I don't care what you actually believe". Similarly, Anti-Muslim to me means being against people of Islam faith in general. I don't believe Trump is Anti-Arab or Anti-Muslim in this context. He can be against certain ideals held by many but not all Arabs or Muslims, but to characterize that as being anti-Arab or anti-Muslim is incorrect.

I'll give you another example. During the time period leading up to the US civil war, many people in the south supported slavery, and many did not. If you said you are anti-slavery, is that the same as being anti-South, meaning you don't like people from the South regardless of what they actually believe? I hope you can see the distinction being drawn here. Some pundits conflate being against certain ideals with being anti-Muslim or anti-Arab, but it's a mistake at best, and a dishonest attempt to mis-characterize the issue at worst.

There is no good reason to be against a general population of people, and I don't believe Trump holds such a position. I hope I am right on this one, not for the sake of wining an Internet argument, but I hope people have some basic goodness that we can rely on.

Some of my best friends are [fill in specific demographic group here] so I couldn't possibly be a bigot.

I said that sarcastically but I should add that the reality is there are some people who are not in fact racist but use racism to make money or accumulate power. Trump could be one of those people. Maybe he doesn't hate all Muslims but he is finding it useful to stoke the fears other people have about Muslims. Which do you think is more despicable?

I think you have the string of terror attacks this summer to blame for that as well as the string of rapes, murder, and pedophilia in UK news that the liberal US media rarely shows.

How does one go about stoking the fears of people in terms of incidents that the media rarely covers?

The conservative media certainly does show it and you hear about it on forums like this one