Why do lawyers sign letters "Very truly yours,"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't use it. I think it's weird.

+1 - I've never used it.

+1 lawyer and I see it all the time but don't use it bc yes it's weird!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have used "Yours very truly" which is a derivative of "Very truly yours" for 35 years in our law office.
It sounds more professional than "Sincerely" which sounds too familiar for a professional letter in my humble opinion.

You bumped a five-year-old thread to tell us this?

Sincerely comes from "sine cere", i.e., "without wax". Here's the explanation: Sine means "without". Literally, sincere ( sine cere ) means "without wax". If, way back when, you were creating a vase or drinking vessel and a small crack developed on the outside you would fill in the crack with wax. The ones without wax commanded a higher price since they were the true or sincere products.

Your source? I'm a Classist and found no evidence of this. While there is evidence repairs to vessels were made in antiquity, I found no evidence they were done with wax. Repair materials were usually metal (bronze, lead, etc.) to vessels that were of higher value. Lower value items made of clay would have been tossed (plenty of evidence of this). And, if you think about it, wax isn't a good material for repairs. It's not durable. There was a reason why wax was used for writing tablets since it was so malleable.

The English word "sincere" comes directly from the Latin 'sincerus' and can apply to physical items, liquids, people and morals. It generally means pure, unadultrated, unmixed, unclouded. According to my Unabridged Oxford Latin Dictionary, in the moral sense, it means "lacking any touch of falseness or corruption, pure, genuine". Had "sincerus" been derived from 'sine cere', it would have been documented in the UOLD. I always was unable to find a citation from any authoritative source for it.

[Anonymous]

There is apparently no good way to sign off a letter. I've never heard of a single sign off that doesn't make someone, somewhere, irrationally angry.

I settled on "Cheers" a while back and then was later told it seemed "fake Australian" and "sarcastic." Meanwhile, I think if you are getting upset about sign offs and reading a ton of meaning into them, the problem likely lies with you and your relationship to others and to the world at large. I'm just trying to end my letter or email without offending anyone. Good lord.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have used "Yours very truly" which is a derivative of "Very truly yours" for 35 years in our law office.
It sounds more professional than "Sincerely" which sounds too familiar for a professional letter in my humble opinion.

You bumped a five-year-old thread to tell us this?

Sincerely comes from "sine cere", i.e., "without wax". Here's the explanation: Sine means "without". Literally, sincere ( sine cere ) means "without wax". If, way back when, you were creating a vase or drinking vessel and a small crack developed on the outside you would fill in the crack with wax. The ones without wax commanded a higher price since they were the true or sincere products.

Your source? I'm a Classist and found no evidence of this. While there is evidence repairs to vessels were made in antiquity, I found no evidence they were done with wax. Repair materials were usually metal (bronze, lead, etc.) to vessels that were of higher value. Lower value items made of clay would have been tossed (plenty of evidence of this). And, if you think about it, wax isn't a good material for repairs. It's not durable. There was a reason why wax was used for writing tablets since it was so malleable.

The English word "sincere" comes directly from the Latin 'sincerus' and can apply to physical items, liquids, people and morals. It generally means pure, unadultrated, unmixed, unclouded. According to my Unabridged Oxford Latin Dictionary, in the moral sense, it means "lacking any touch of falseness or corruption, pure, genuine". Had "sincerus" been derived from 'sine cere', it would have been documented in the UOLD. I always was unable to find a citation from any authoritative source for it.

"1530s, "pure, unmixed, unadulterated;" also "free from pretense or falsehood," from French sincere (16c.), from Latin sincerus, of things, "whole, clean, pure, uninjured, unmixed," figuratively "sound, genuine, pure, true, candid, truthful" (unadulterated by deceit), a word of uncertain origin.

There has been a temptation to see the first element as Latin sine "without." But there is no etymological justification for the common story that the word means "without wax" (*sin cerae), which is dismissed out of hand by OED, Century Dictionary ("untenable"), and others, and the stories invented to justify that folk etymology are even less plausible."

Source: https://www.etymonline.com/word/sincerely

[Anonymous]

I'm not in PP, but switched to warmest regards a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

Very truly yours was a traditional closing for
all business letters. Today "Very truly yours"
is only use for business letters writen by
crooked lawyers who are not on the ACLU payroll.

[Anonymous]

I see Cheers a lot from colleagues. Don’t like it. Never liked “very truly yours” either. I’m female and that always sounded filial. I use a simple thanks or thank you in an email and sincerely in letters (not sincerely yours).

And I don’t use Esq.

[Anonymous]

I always used Sincerely in my fancy law firm but a lot of lawyers did use Very Truly Yours. None of us signed off as Esq though. That’s tacky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is apparently no good way to sign off a letter. I've never heard of a single sign off that doesn't make someone, somewhere, irrationally angry.

I settled on "Cheers" a while back and then was later told it seemed "fake Australian" and "sarcastic." Meanwhile, I think if you are getting upset about sign offs and reading a ton of meaning into them, the problem likely lies with you and your relationship to others and to the world at large. I'm just trying to end my letter or email without offending anyone. Good lord.

Obviously a fake Australian would say that

[Anonymous]

Let Alex and Aaron show you how it's done:

I have the honor to be your obedient servant.

[Anonymous]

I was taught that, very truly yours, is a sign off like, bless your heart.
it also means that the email/letter is truthful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a civilian who works in a military setting. In the military, people use " Very respectfully" or v/r for short. It's weird, but I've gotten used to it.

I am former military. I love v/r because it doesn't imply closeness. I also deeply miss being able reply to emails with a simple "ack."

[Anonymous]

I recommend

Yours In Law,
Bob Loblaw

Lawfully yours,
Dewey Cheatum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have used "Yours very truly" which is a derivative of "Very truly yours" for 35 years in our law office.
It sounds more professional than "Sincerely" which sounds too familiar for a professional letter in my humble opinion.

You bumped a five-year-old thread to tell us this?

Sincerely comes from "sine cere", i.e., "without wax". Here's the explanation: Sine means "without". Literally, sincere ( sine cere ) means "without wax". If, way back when, you were creating a vase or drinking vessel and a small crack developed on the outside you would fill in the crack with wax. The ones without wax commanded a higher price since they were the true or sincere products.

You are my spirit animal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was taught that, very truly yours, is a sign off like, bless your heart.
it also means that the email/letter is truthful.

Exactly. Sincerely is more polite and reserved for times you want to be earnestly nice.