Redshirted and Regretted It?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not a year and a half. parents are holding back or having some repeat grades for far older than august birthdays. Try sept and october from the prior birth year.

Just for clarification, are you suggesting holding back September/October birthdays from a year BEFORE the Augusts that get held back? I.e., TWO years? (Because September/October from the same year as August would of course, actually be a month or two younger.)

So seriously, you're talking about TWO YEARS younger? Because that doesn't sound like red-shirting, that sounds like failing Kindergarten.

Sorry, in case I'm unclear here, I mean the average child is TWO YEARS younger than the red-shirt? (Or as I should have phrased it, the red-shirt is TWO YEARS older than the average child?) Because that's a new one to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We're talking about instilling confidence in a young boy in elementary school and allowing him to be well rounded and explore his interests. I'm not sure how much fun sitting the bench b/c you are a year and a half younger than your classmates would be. Certainly I do not see how this would instill confidence. In a situation where redshirting is common, a child isn't likely to question his academic ability. BTW, I am male, if it matters. My wife showed me this thread and asked me to chime in...

So you are saying that it is appropriate for the "young boy" who is 8-16 months older than his classmates to be the star athlete because he is competing against kids who are smaller/slower/less coordinated because well they are? Do you think it boosts the confidence for a 8th grader to be the star athlete as compared to 6th and 7th graders? Because that is what you are advocating for, even though the kids are all in the same class.

Indeed, what you are suggesting is that these kids can't even compete on the same out of school teams together because of league age requirements. How much fun will it be for your child to compete on one team while his classmates are on a "younger" team. That will be so much fin for him after games to be hanging out with his classmates. Oh wait, no he won't.

And I agree with the other posted who suggested that the message you are giving your child over the long term is that you didn't have the confidence in him to compete with his peers, so you micromanaged him into competing with kids who are, in reality, a year behind him.

I would think the confidence booster is to tell your 9 year old, I believe you are strong and smart enough to compete with 10 year olds, not the other way around.

[Anonymous]

I guess most red-shirted kids are boys, so the bigger question for me is the middle school years. Any other moms of girls concerned about these older boys being in middle school with their age-appropriate-for-grade daughters? EEK! Just sayin'.

And how about those girls who are held back a year. Can you say 3rd/4th graders getting their periods? Those poor girls are really going to feel the divide then, forget starting K at barely age 5.

Do any of these parents consider this when holding back their kids? Doubtful.

[Anonymous]

I am not generally in favor of redshirting, but I have been convinced by many of the people posting here--even those I disagree with--that parents who redshirt their kids generally do so after a great deal of thought and agonizing. So, yes, I do think parents consider all these issues and more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We're talking about instilling confidence in a young boy in elementary school and allowing him to be well rounded and explore his interests. I'm not sure how much fun sitting the bench b/c you are a year and a half younger than your classmates would be. Certainly I do not see how this would instill confidence. In a situation where redshirting is common, a child isn't likely to question his academic ability. BTW, I am male, if it matters. My wife showed me this thread and asked me to chime in...

So you are saying that it is appropriate for the "young boy" who is 8-16 months older than his classmates to be the star athlete because he is competing against kids who are smaller/slower/less coordinated because well they are? Do you think it boosts the confidence for a 8th grader to be the star athlete as compared to 6th and 7th graders? Because that is what you are advocating for, even though the kids are all in the same class.

Indeed, what you are suggesting is that these kids can't even compete on the same out of school teams together because of league age requirements. How much fun will it be for your child to compete on one team while his classmates are on a "younger" team. That will be so much fin for him after games to be hanging out with his classmates. Oh wait, no he won't.

And I agree with the other posted who suggested that the message you are giving your child over the long term is that you didn't have the confidence in him to compete with his peers, so you micromanaged him into competing with kids who are, in reality, a year behind him.

I would think the confidence booster is to tell your 9 year old, I believe you are strong and smart enough to compete with 10 year olds, not the other way around.

No, this is NOT what I am saying. I am talking about choosing to redshirt in a context where redshirting is the NORM for summer bithdays and even late spring birthdays. If you put your son born right before the cutoff into school with these boys, there is likely to be a big difference in coordination, motor skills, size etc. In this case, redshirting puts the child on par with his peers -- and not redshirting could likely put him at a disadvantage. I'm not saying that I agree with redshirting, but I'm not going to turn a blind eye to the fact that it's happening, either. If no one redshirted, it wouldn't be an issue. If the majority redshirts at the school, then you have to base the decision not just on your child, but your child's age relative to the ages of his classmates. Also, if the teacher's expectations have been heightened to the level that a 6 year-old maturity level and ability is expected, then you have to consider this, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a year and a half. parents are holding back or having some repeat grades for far older than august birthdays. Try sept and october from the prior birth year.

So are you suggesting that there are lots of kids turning 7 in the sept/oct of their kindergarten year???? That's not a trend I'm aware of. (note, a redshirted June birthday would turn 6 the June before K... but a redshirted Oct birthday would not have been able to start K normally until they were almost 6... so in your scenario they would be almost turning SEVEN. Really??!!??)

I'm not the pp, but a K teacher told us that there were a few 7 year-olds in K at her private school as of Feb. of this year. I don't know the story on them -- whether they were redshirted or repeated K. This particular school has no problem recommending that K be repeated.

[Anonymous]

All it takes is one or two summer birthdays who were not held back to make those who were redshirted wonder why they weren't ready and what about them was considered "not there" for them to go on. And there is a real issue if you send the message that by being older, they will be "better." Heaven forbid someone comes along who wasn't redshirted, and is better than they are at sports, academics, and socially. Its not going to feel good to be held back, and then at some point run across someone who is a year younger, and is still more able. I used to work in a school for many years as a counselor, and saw this happen over and over.

[Anonymous]

Are boys dumber than girls? Do they need special treatment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

" Okay, BUT, doesn't this confidence disappear when the child realizes that his parents didn't have the confidence to send him to school when he was age-eligible? Doesn't this result in a feeling that you are not "as smart as" your younger classmates? Or, if you are ahead academically, do you just attribute it to being older and not necessarily smarter?

Couldn't have said it better myself. And while athletics are fun and important, unless you see serious Division 1/Pro level acumen, does it really matter?

We're talking about instilling confidence in a young boy in elementary school and allowing him to be well rounded and explore his interests. I'm not sure how much fun sitting the bench b/c you are a year and a half younger than your classmates would be. Certainly I do not see how this would instill confidence. In a situation where redshirting is common, a child isn't likely to question his academic ability. BTW, I am male, if it matters. My wife showed me this thread and asked me to chime in...

It's not a year and a half. parents are holding back or having some repeat grades for far older than august birthdays. Try sept and october from the prior birth year.

Data please! How many boys do you personally know, with birthdays earlier than April, who were held back? Let's take a poll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are boys dumber than girls? Do they need special treatment?

No way! In my experience, though, schools see them as being "less mature" - a private school told me that they're typically about 6 months behind girls in terms of maturity. I don't agree, but this apparently is their mindset. Schools thinks they're less likely to sit still and do the desk-work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All it takes is one or two summer birthdays who were not held back to make those who were redshirted wonder why they weren't ready and what about them was considered "not there" for them to go on. And there is a real issue if you send the message that by being older, they will be "better." Heaven forbid someone comes along who wasn't redshirted, and is better than they are at sports, academics, and socially. Its not going to feel good to be held back, and then at some point run across someone who is a year younger, and is still more able. I used to work in a school for many years as a counselor, and saw this happen over and over.

Right - this is my big fear with redshirting -- the message it may be sending to the child. For those of you who have redshirted, what do your children think about your decision, and how do they view themselves in comparison with younger classmates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Data please! How many boys do you personally know, with birthdays earlier than April, who were held back? Let's take a poll.

I am familiar with one school in the area, and two current grades, and including both boys and girls in these two grades, there are at least 5 (out of 22) in each grade who were redshirted. And when I say redshirted, I do not include summer (ie May 31-Sept 1) birthdays. if you include those, it goes up to about 10 in each class. Irony: For the most part, the "younger" kids are on par or more capable than the "older" kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All it takes is one or two summer birthdays who were not held back to make those who were redshirted wonder why they weren't ready and what about them was considered "not there" for them to go on. And there is a real issue if you send the message that by being older, they will be "better." Heaven forbid someone comes along who wasn't redshirted, and is better than they are at sports, academics, and socially. Its not going to feel good to be held back, and then at some point run across someone who is a year younger, and is still more able. I used to work in a school for many years as a counselor, and saw this happen over and over.

Right - this is my big fear with redshirting -- the message it may be sending to the child. For those of you who have redshirted, what do your children think about your decision, and how do they view themselves in comparison with younger classmates?

You people are nuts. Your kid is not going to have some detrimental confidence issue because he or she might be a couple of months older than the next oldest "normal age" kid in the class (ie. if you redshirt a July birthday he/she will be 2 months older than a September birthday kid who is in the "correct" age class). The only way he/she will have that kind of confidence issue is if you, the parent, communicate that to them.

[Anonymous]

I think we need to have a common definition of "redshirting".

I agree with many of the PP's that there is no problem holding back a summer birthday (May-Aug) for K when the child's motor/processing/maturity has not yet developed for today's advanced K curriculum. This has been my working definition of "redshirting."

I also agree with many of the PP's that holding back a Sept-Jan birthday is not really "redshirting" but "repeating" a grade. This should be done only b/c of an academic developmental issue as there should be no age development issue with a child born in those months.

I guess a Feb-April birthday is questionable... the vast majority should be kept in their normal grade, but I could see an extenuating circumstance here and there.

So, what should be the DCUM definition of redshirting? Is it,

(A) Holding back a May-Aug summer birthday?

or

(B) Holding back a Sept-April birthday

or

(C) Holding back any kid born Sept-Aug.


My vote would be (A), and would begin to call most Sept-April birthdays "repeaters"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are boys dumber than girls? Do they need special treatment?

No way! In my experience, though, schools see them as being "less mature" - a private school told me that they're typically about 6 months behind girls in terms of maturity. I don't agree, but this apparently is their mindset. Schools thinks they're less likely to sit still and do the desk-work.

Boys tend to develop their fine motor and processing skills a little slower than girls (like the PP said, maybe 3-6 months slower).... the whole point here is that this was not a big deal 30 years ago when the K curriculum was all about play, beginning to draw, etc. Today's K curriculum, especially in a top private school, is FAR more advanced and really more the old 1st grade (reading, math, advanced drawing, etc). So, the need for redshirting stems from the fact that a kid who was born in May-Aug may really need those extra few months of development before being ready to hit the ground running into the advanced K curriculum... and this tends to be more pronounced with boys because of that 3-6 month age development lag.