holding boys back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Will they wonder if something is wrong with them?

The older kids in my son's class make fun of the kids who are younger (as in, started on time). So no, they don't seem at all self-conscious. Or mature, for that matter.

When my son told me, all I could think about was that line fro Fiddler on the Roof about being poor: "It's no sin, but it's no great honor, either."

Make fun of them how? That is so weird. Sounds like their parents have imbued them with a healthy confidence. Snort.

[Anonymous]

My oldest child has a mid-Sept birthday, so we technically won't be red-shirting him for Kindergarten since Montgomery County schools (nursery through elem) have a Sept. 1st cut-off. My son is ready for Kindergarten, but everyone is telling me not to try to fight the system to have him start early (had he been born just a couple of weeks sooner, he'd be eligible). I have a handful of relatives who teach elem school (one in Mont Co) and they all assure me that it is best to have him start K when he turns 6. Apparently red-shirting is very common here -- lots of parents of summer babies seem to do it. I know that it is common in San Francisco as well (but not in Philly or other slower-paced cities -- a friend in Oklahoma City (a partner in a big law firm w/ kids on the private school path) thought I was crazy when I told her about red-shirting in the DC-metro area. Her husband -- also a partner in a large firm who went to undergrad and law school in DC said, "they only hold back the slow kids with issues here -- and it's typically the teachers who suggest it, not the parents. Sounds like a typical type A DC yuppie invention."). I have another boy with a July birthday who will likely start K on time (unless he has a serious behavior or learning issue). I realize that K in Mont Co has become hyper-academic and less play-based (see the Wash Post article on K being the new first grade), and that seems to scare off a lot of parents who think their kids won't be ready. But I think lots of kids -- even kids from privileged backgrounds -- come to K without knowing their A,B,Cs, etc. I have a friend who teaches K at a $30k a year private school in NYC, and she says lots of the kids don't know their letters and numbers or how to read and write -- she says that is what K is for. And these kids are coming from privileged backgrounds -- these aren't low income kids starting out at a disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

My son has an August birthday and he will be starting kindergarten at age 5 this fall. We talked to the principal at Burning Tree Elementary about readiness for kindergarten and holding boys back and she strongly discourages this practice. She feels (not quoting verbatim) that children should stay with their peers, and that children who are 5 are ready for kindergarten, even when preschools might be advising otherwise. Because of the international community, a significant number of children come into BT not knowing English and still do successfully in K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who teaches K at a $30k a year private school in NYC, and she says lots of the kids don't know their letters and numbers or how to read and write -- she says that is what K is for.

Really? I thought that's what parents were for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who teaches K at a $30k a year private school in NYC, and she says lots of the kids don't know their letters and numbers or how to read and write -- she says that is what K is for.

Really? I thought that's what parents were for.

Obviously parents work on letters and numbers w/ their kids. This teacher was merely saying that kids come equipped at different levels and K teachers work on these skills during the year. So even if your kid knows the abcs, he'll still be working on them in K b/c that is the curriculum.

[Anonymous]

I believe there are studies out there about puberty and adult success. Later puberty seems to do kids well - since they can't "succeed" in the dating game, they focus on things that benefit them in the long run: skills like math, science, and good study habits. Red shirting may be great for the esteem of a little guy. It may end up being bad news for the pimply obnoxious "too cool for school" boy who can drive/buy booze/get the girl before his friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I believe there are studies out there about puberty and adult success. Later puberty seems to do kids well - since they can't "succeed" in the dating game, they focus on things that benefit them in the long run: skills like math, science, and good study habits. Red shirting may be great for the esteem of a little guy. It may end up being bad news for the pimply obnoxious "too cool for school" boy who can drive/buy booze/get the girl before his friends.

Given the prevalence of red shirting in this area, the too cool for school boy will have lots of company. We're in one of the "big three" private schools, and over a third of the boys in my kid's class were red shirted.

[Anonymous]

Agree with 17:10. I will do my best to keep those adult "boys" away form my young children in HS.

[Anonymous]

Given the prevalence of red shirting in this area, the too cool for school boy will have lots of company. We're in one of the "big three" private schools, and over a third of the boys in my kid's class were red shirted.

not sure what the "big three" but anyway i am trying to understand this whole concept. so, in your son's class what would you say is the span of age difference between the oldest and youngest? 14-16 months difference? when did this "redshirting" take place? do they repeat pre-k or what?

[Anonymous]

When we get to numbers of 30% redshirting of mostly white mid/upper middle class boys, this can skew statistics. Since this practice is less common among black and hispanic families, those NCLB test scores have less meaning when they compare say third grade children by race/ethnicity.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm...all this time I have been worrying about the opposite problem, i.e. how to get my Oct 2 daughter into kindergarten without having to wait an extra year until she is almost 6! Though I do not have to really worry for another year, and my assessment of my daughters comparative abilities may change (and I would consult an education specialist in any case if I thought my daughter should divert fromt he "normal" track), but she already exhibits traits of boredom with things she already knows (ABCs, counting, etc.) by making up rhyming "words" instead of the real letters/numbers or other types of "goofing off".

I have bad memories of being bored in school, even in Grade 1, because I (December b-day) was academically ahead of my peers but had some teachers that would not let me learn at my own pace...and one teacher even told my mother to stop teaching me how to do division because she was not teaching me "the right way" (i.e. how the teacher would teach my peers later in the year), though I knew how to get the right answer every time...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given the prevalence of red shirting in this area, the too cool for school boy will have lots of company. We're in one of the "big three" private schools, and over a third of the boys in my kid's class were red shirted.

not sure what the "big three" but anyway i am trying to understand this whole concept. so, in your son's class what would you say is the span of age difference between the oldest and youngest? 14-16 months difference? when did this "redshirting" take place? do they repeat pre-k or what?

Sidwell, Beauvoir, GDS = 'big three"

To answer your question, I don't know when the redshirting took place. I'm assuming they started kindergarten late, and did an extra year of preschool. The age difference between the oldest and youngest is 16 months.

[Anonymous]

Well, I guess I'm going to be pretty proud of my DS when he is doing as well as or better academically than boys 16 months older than him in his class.

As far as I can tell, if some boys needs special classes and attention, they should get it. No question. But if fully ONE THIRD of the boys in a class started late, I'd be surprised if it's because all 30% had learning problems.

On the other hand, if these boys were all very immature and another year at home with mom or nanny or whatever helps them be ready, I guess it's to everyone in the class's benefit to have these more "ready" kids. I can kind of see both sides of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, I guess I'm going to be pretty proud of my DS when he is doing as well as or better academically than boys 16 months older than him in his class.

As far as I can tell, if some boys needs special classes and attention, they should get it. No question. But if fully ONE THIRD of the boys in a class started late, I'd be surprised if it's because all 30% had learning problems.

On the other hand, if these boys were all very immature and another year at home with mom or nanny or whatever helps them be ready, I guess it's to everyone in the class's benefit to have these more "ready" kids. I can kind of see both sides of this.

I don't think that it's a matter of learning problems. Many parents (at least those that I've spoken with) have held back their boys (and a few girls) because of social maturity concerns, not for "academic" reasons. Children who are/were having learning difficulties don't benefit from being held back. These situations are best handled by seeking out the appropriate support (e.g., learning specialist, therapist)

[Anonymous]

So, one-third of these boys are "socially immature"? What on earth does that mean? In our daughter's preschool class of 20, there are one or two boys who have more trouble fitting in than the others, but I certainly wouldn't say they are so far from the mean that they should be kept back. Kids are kids, and teachers are used to dealing with a wide variety of personalities and behaviors. Children shouldn't have to be "perfect" in order to go kindergarten.