Why is there so much cheating going on at TJ and the teachers/school administrators do nothing?

[Anonymous]

well said! +1

I think if schools started truly enforcing policy in cases of blatant cheating in a way that costs kids, as opposed to "oh, so and so might not get into an ivy if we publicize this and put a black mark on their record, blah, blah, blah" we would see cheating decline (and likely grades dip) pretty quickly.

how come we have lower standards for TJ cheaters than those at other places?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Attending TJ is a privilege and this privilege should not be abused nor condoned.

There are more than 3,300 applicants (most of them capable) each year for only about 480 spots at TJ. Many exceptional and qualified students who would be very appreciative to attend are rejected every year. Whether the cheating students are lazy, incompetent or unethical, these students should be replaced with students grateful for the opportunity to attend TJ and not willing to engage in unethical behaviors.

+100

It really is that black and white. PPs who say that maybe the kids are unclear about what constitutes cheating are just making excuses. These kids know -- when they're looking at books under the desk or programming formulas in calculators after teachers have expressly told them not to-- that they are doing something wrong. Or else they haven't been raised right. Period. Just because others are doing it to get ahead doesn't make it okay. All these apologists saying the poor babes don't understand where the line is make me wonder just what some parents are teaching their kids. It's a little scary.

Seems TJ has spelled it out pretty well in their honor code. What they need to do is enforce it.

Sorry, I was unclear; I had no intention of making excuses for students who cheat. I agree with you completely that consequences for cheating should be strictly enforced and that some of the examples listed here are not at all in a gray area and kids this age should know better. I just think that some kids have been told so many times that any kind of preparation is always appropriate that they just don't know what is cheating and what is not.
The best way for students to learn would be for the school to enforce the rules. When kids start getting zeros, or getting suspended or expelled, they, and all their friends, will quickly learn what constitutes cheating.

well said! +1

I think if schools started truly enforcing policy in cases of blatant cheating in a way that costs kids, as opposed to "oh, so and so might not get into an ivy if we publicize this and put a black mark on their record, blah, blah, blah" we would see cheating decline (and likely grades dip) pretty quickly.

how come we have lower standards for TJ cheaters than those at other places?

Oh, I think cheating goes on in high schools everywhere, and I'm not sure the standard is lower at TJ than anywhere else. I think, though, that TJ ought to maintain a higher standard. These kids are capable of being leaders in any field they choose to go into, so we should be teaching them now that they need to place a high priority on honesty and integrity. We do them no favors in the long run to accept lower standards of honesty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Attending TJ is a privilege and this privilege should not be abused nor condoned.

There are more than 3,300 applicants (most of them capable) each year for only about 480 spots at TJ. Many exceptional and qualified students who would be very appreciative to attend are rejected every year. Whether the cheating students are lazy, incompetent or unethical, these students should be replaced with students grateful for the opportunity to attend TJ and not willing to engage in unethical behaviors.

+100

It really is that black and white. PPs who say that maybe the kids are unclear about what constitutes cheating are just making excuses. These kids know -- when they're looking at books under the desk or programming formulas in calculators after teachers have expressly told them not to-- that they are doing something wrong. Or else they haven't been raised right. Period. Just because others are doing it to get ahead doesn't make it okay. All these apologists saying the poor babes don't understand where the line is make me wonder just what some parents are teaching their kids. It's a little scary.

Seems TJ has spelled it out pretty well in their honor code. What they need to do is enforce it.

Sorry, I was unclear; I had no intention of making excuses for students who cheat. I agree with you completely that consequences for cheating should be strictly enforced and that some of the examples listed here are not at all in a gray area and kids this age should know better. I just think that some kids have been told so many times that any kind of preparation is always appropriate that they just don't know what is cheating and what is not.
The best way for students to learn would be for the school to enforce the rules. When kids start getting zeros, or getting suspended or expelled, they, and all their friends, will quickly learn what constitutes cheating.

well said! +1

I think if schools started truly enforcing policy in cases of blatant cheating in a way that costs kids, as opposed to "oh, so and so might not get into an ivy if we publicize this and put a black mark on their record, blah, blah, blah" we would see cheating decline (and likely grades dip) pretty quickly.

how come we have lower standards for TJ cheaters than those at other places?

Oh, I think cheating goes on in high schools everywhere, and I'm not sure the standard is lower at TJ than anywhere else. I think, though, that TJ ought to maintain a higher standard. These kids are capable of being leaders in any field they choose to go into, so we should be teaching them now that they need to place a high priority on honesty and integrity. We do them no favors in the long run to accept lower standards of honesty.

I know kids at other FCPS high schools that have had to face penalties for cheating (no IB diploma, failure in class, etc.), but I have heard more stories of teachers turning a blind eye at TJ, so I don't think it's fair to say their standards are higher, though I agree they should be.

Also, if we have to teach kids about basic honesty and integrity at age 14 on, we are in trouble. Those lessons should have been imparted long before.

[Anonymous]

It does not make sense to have a lower ethical standard at TJ compared to the base schools. The standard should be higher not lower.

[Anonymous]

Did you read the story on the front page of the Post today about the corruption in the education system in China?
A section was titled: "Beating the competition." That sSeems to be what it is all about for some people.
The ending quote from a mom trying to get her kid into a good middle school: "The system, the pressure, the bribes, it's all unfair."
Sounds a lot like TJ

[Anonymous]

TJ parent here - At back to school night several of the teachers described the steps they take to prevent cheating. A science teacher said that they have learned there are so-called "tutors" who have large files of all the old tests given at TJ. So this year they are creating every test from scratch, with 4 completely different versions as the classes meet during 4 different time periods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ parent here - At back to school night several of the teachers described the steps they take to prevent cheating. A science teacher said that they have learned there are so-called "tutors" who have large files of all the old tests given at TJ. So this year they are creating every test from scratch, with 4 completely different versions as the classes meet during 4 different time periods.

The problem is the some of those "tutors" ask the students to come to them after tests and repeat as many questions as they can. So, even though the kids are not allowed to remove copies of the tests from school, these "tutors" can still recreate the test questions. I'm glad to hear the teachers are doing what they can to prevent cheating and hope they are successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ parent here - At back to school night several of the teachers described the steps they take to prevent cheating. A science teacher said that they have learned there are so-called "tutors" who have large files of all the old tests given at TJ. So this year they are creating every test from scratch, with 4 completely different versions as the classes meet during 4 different time periods.

The problem is the some of those "tutors" ask the students to come to them after tests and repeat as many questions as they can. So, even though the kids are not allowed to remove copies of the tests from school, these "tutors" can still recreate the test questions. I'm glad to hear the teachers are doing what they can to prevent cheating and hope they are successful.

moi aussi.

[Anonymous]

Teachers rarely take any action and ignore cheating and even if they take any action at all it's usually "take the test again". Now that is one serious consequence.

The administrators do not take any significant actions either and rarely if ever take serious actions such as suspension etc. The counselor is not notified and the violations never go on the transcript. Everything is hushed up so no one knows if any violation is even taking place officially and if anything is done about it.

Under these circumstances, why would students not cheat if they wanted to. Chances are nothing will happen most of the time since the teachers ignore cheating and even if the student is caught then the student gets to take the test again! You get two tries instead of one if caught cheating! That looks like a positive reinforcement.

The FCPS should tell the school to enforce the honor code and prevent cheating instead of hoping it goes away or ignoring the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers rarely take any action and ignore cheating and even if they take any action at all it's usually "take the test again". Now that is one serious consequence.

The administrators do not take any significant actions either and rarely if ever take serious actions such as suspension etc. The counselor is not notified and the violations never go on the transcript. Everything is hushed up so no one knows if any violation is even taking place officially and if anything is done about it.

Under these circumstances, why would students not cheat if they wanted to. Chances are nothing will happen most of the time since the teachers ignore cheating and even if the student is caught then the student gets to take the test again! You get two tries instead of one if caught cheating! That looks like a positive reinforcement.

The FCPS should tell the school to enforce the honor code and prevent cheating instead of hoping it goes away or ignoring the problem.

How do you know this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ parent here - At back to school night several of the teachers described the steps they take to prevent cheating. A science teacher said that they have learned there are so-called "tutors" who have large files of all the old tests given at TJ. So this year they are creating every test from scratch, with 4 completely different versions as the classes meet during 4 different time periods.

The problem is the some of those "tutors" ask the students to come to them after tests and repeat as many questions as they can. So, even though the kids are not allowed to remove copies of the tests from school, these "tutors" can still recreate the test questions. I'm glad to hear the teachers are doing what they can to prevent cheating and hope they are successful.

This is still going on.

Easy to record your screen during a DL test and pass along the recording to the “tutor”. Or even get “coaching” real time during an actual test.

It's too much work for the teachers to try to stay one step ahead of those that are willing to do whatever it takes to get an A. They just give in.