2E parent of a 2E child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I absolutely lost it and told him point blank that he is the reason at the center of his problems. If he is experiencing negativity, it is because he is behaving in ways that generate that reaction in me and others. He isn't entitled to endless understanding; at a certain point he has to look in the mirror.

He is not responsible for how you react!!! Why would you say that? kids with ADHD and autism (sounds like he really is on the spectrum) have super low self esteen anyway. Have you tried positive reinforcements such as giving him lots of praise even for things that seem dumb to you?

People are responsible for understanding the effects of their actions and inactions on other people and to put two and two together when getting messages back from the world about what they are putting into it. Of course we are all responsible for how we interact with the world.

Sure, and YOU are responsible for how you react to him. Just like you are responsible for how you react to your husband, boss, mother, etc. You are not going to motivate him by constantly telling him he is failing at everything and what a huge disappointment he is to you.

You also aren’t going to ever motivate him. Certainly not ona consistent basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no, he is not on the spectrum. He has a major league executive dysfunction problem combined with a laissez faire/ "who, me?" attitude.And it's always external forces, always someone else's problem/responsibility/mistake. Not him.

It sounds like he is trying to avoid shame and preserve his dignity in the face of an overwhelming problem. Kids say they don't care, but really they do, they just don't know how to solve the problem and they are ashamed and try to save face.

I never bought into this “shame” theory. I think it was introduced by therapists as a way for victims to feel ok about bad things happening.

It’s self-sabotage and everyone sees through it except the saboteur.

Yes he wants to avoid admitting he screwed up, but to attempt to preserve his (fake) image and ego. Not to go improve and set up states so things improve. Ultimately it’s delusional. But we all play along so he doesn’t get depressed (more) and spiral.

OP, I was an undiagnosed ADHD 2E kid in the 1990s who had a lot of shame and avoided schoolwork because it got so overwhelming. (Didn’t have the hygiene issues but maybe because of gender norms, I’m a woman.) I almost failed some of classes senior year of high school.

College was MUCH better because I could choose classes I was interested in, and maybe because my brain developed more. And like a PP said, grad school was even better. My life isn’t perfect now but I have a successful career, marriage, kids.

Hang in there.

[Anonymous]

Please get some help, OP. You are totally burned out and hate your kid. Find a therapist who can help you manage your feelings. It is a LOT and you need an outlet.

Also, I did not do a deep read of all the prior posts, but where is the dad in all of this? Not on board with your approach? Not helping? Very likely part of your stress, whatever it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please get some help, OP. You are totally burned out and hate your kid. Find a therapist who can help you manage your feelings. It is a LOT and you need an outlet.

Also, I did not do a deep read of all the prior posts, but where is the dad in all of this? Not on board with your approach? Not helping? Very likely part of your stress, whatever it is.

I agree on therapy - I'm not OP. I have an individual therapist and a marriage therapist and I would say parenting my 2E kid is about 50% of what I cover with both therapists.

The Disengaged Teen is a good read.

We also have tutors and an executive functioning coach, but those are two more things I have to manage for my son, so it's still a lot.

One system we've implemented at the start of 9th grade that is a weekly Sunday night planning sessions, plus we have a 10 minute morning planning session every weekday morning where we go over his daily checklist on what he has to complete for the day before he gets his phone back after school.

[Anonymous]

I stay up all night helping my kid with his homework then he loses it somewhere between home and school and gets a zero. I'm at the end of my rope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I stay up all night helping my kid with his homework then he loses it somewhere between home and school and gets a zero. I'm at the end of my rope.

It's like this. Water through a sieve.

he does not have trouble understanding the work. He has trouble DOING the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no, he is not on the spectrum. He has a major league executive dysfunction problem combined with a laissez faire/ "who, me?" attitude.And it's always external forces, always someone else's problem/responsibility/mistake. Not him.

It sounds like he is trying to avoid shame and preserve his dignity in the face of an overwhelming problem. Kids say they don't care, but really they do, they just don't know how to solve the problem and they are ashamed and try to save face.

I never bought into this “shame” theory. I think it was introduced by therapists as a way for victims to feel ok about bad things happening.

It’s self-sabotage and everyone sees through it except the saboteur.

Yes he wants to avoid admitting he screwed up, but to attempt to preserve his (fake) image and ego. Not to go improve and set up states so things improve. Ultimately it’s delusional. But we all play along so he doesn’t get depressed (more) and spiral.

OP try using the mantra they teach in Unstuck and on Target: "it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility." As in, it's not your fault that you have ASD, ADHD, or weak EF, but it is your responsibility to learn how to cope with this situation so you can move forward.

You're going to have to say it hundreds or thousands of times before it sinks in. If you're 2E too, you should understand why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And it is killing me.
He is so smart but so hopelessly scattered, lazy, unmotivated, procrastinating, clueless, passive, deceitful, self-deluding, all the things.
The older he gets the worse it is.
Everything is late
Everything is lost
Everything is an excuse or someone else’s fault
Everything gets pushback
He completely lacks any internal structure whatsoever, it is like trying to carry water without a container, nothing you set up stays in place
He can’t even wear clothes that fit or are clean and he is 15 with a closet full of nice clothes but every day he is dressed like a clown—too big, too small, dirty, mismatched, untied, all at the same time. He won’t even shower unprompted. Every single day for years the same effing thing with no improvement and no learning.
I am watching all my hope for what I thought he could become drain away.
His grades are all Bs and a couple of A-s in easy classes, mostly because of lateness and disorganization.
And I myself cannot sit there with him every freaking night the same thing—I have my own job to hold onto and am the breadwinner.
I have said all the things a million times and nothing sticks.
I have pleaded, screamed, cried, punished, rewarded, modeled, and am close to giving up.
If I spend my evenings helping him we will both drown.
At this point I am close to letting him sink on his own, it’s a waste of my very limited time and energy trying to help someone who doesn’t want to learn.

Per the subject line Op, who else in the family is 2E besides this son?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no, he is not on the spectrum. He has a major league executive dysfunction problem combined with a laissez faire/ "who, me?" attitude.And it's always external forces, always someone else's problem/responsibility/mistake. Not him.

It sounds like he is trying to avoid shame and preserve his dignity in the face of an overwhelming problem. Kids say they don't care, but really they do, they just don't know how to solve the problem and they are ashamed and try to save face.

I never bought into this “shame” theory. I think it was introduced by therapists as a way for victims to feel ok about bad things happening.

It’s self-sabotage and everyone sees through it except the saboteur.

Yes he wants to avoid admitting he screwed up, but to attempt to preserve his (fake) image and ego. Not to go improve and set up states so things improve. Ultimately it’s delusional. But we all play along so he doesn’t get depressed (more) and spiral.

OP try using the mantra they teach in Unstuck and on Target: "it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility." As in, it's not your fault that you have ASD, ADHD, or weak EF, but it is your responsibility to learn how to cope with this situation so you can move forward.

You're going to have to say it hundreds or thousands of times before it sinks in. If you're 2E too, you should understand why.

Yes we all like that phrase. But as you know it’s the doing and systematizing that gets results, not the intent or saying it.

[Anonymous]

OP that sounds really hard. I have a 2E kid but she is motivated enough and doesn’t struggle with handing things in. Some thoughts:
1) I’m surprised that your son has so much physical, paper work. My kid turns most assignments in online. Can you amend the IEP/504 so kid can submit work online? For example, take a pic of the assignment and email the teacher? DS should at least get in the habit of scanning or taking a pic of work after he finishes to prevent loss (he can always reprint).
2) Remember he isn’t really 15 years old. ADHD kids can be up to 3 years delayed maturity-wise. He may have the executive functioning of a 12 year old. Plus, boys do something go through a dirty phase (hygiene wise).
3) I know it’s hard, but at the end of the day, you have a lot to be thankful for. Just google the Kids with SN forum for some perspective. Some ADHD or AuADH are struggling with school refusal, bullying, mental health challenges and more. Your kid is getting Bs and is functional.

Good luck. Most BTDT moms will tell you that these early teen years are challenging and 18/19 years old is a real turning point. That has been our experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unmedicated ad undiagnosed at his age. I just worked a lot harder for less results than people around me. I was much more vested than he is in the outcome.

Same. I'm not OP. Also, my work ethic improved over time. I was a lazy, average student in high school, a good student in undergrad, and a great student in grad school. But now I have a 2E boy, and I don't know if it's a gender thing or what, but he struggles in ways that I never did. Part of it is just the world is different now with phones and laptops in school. But my strategies alone don't work. The hardest part is trying to motivate him to want to do well in school. Their generation of boys believe that AI is going to replace knowledge jobs, so what's the point?

Ex-teacher here. I think smart phones and EdTech make it harder to develop work ethic, motivation and EF. I think this issue impacts SN kids more than it impacts NT kids. I predict that for every kid whose life is changed by spellcheck, or who will find AI to be the great leveler career wise, several other SN kids will drop further and further behind their peers. On average, it'll affect more boys than girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unmedicated ad undiagnosed at his age. I just worked a lot harder for less results than people around me. I was much more vested than he is in the outcome.

Same. I'm not OP. Also, my work ethic improved over time. I was a lazy, average student in high school, a good student in undergrad, and a great student in grad school. But now I have a 2E boy, and I don't know if it's a gender thing or what, but he struggles in ways that I never did. Part of it is just the world is different now with phones and laptops in school. But my strategies alone don't work. The hardest part is trying to motivate him to want to do well in school. Their generation of boys believe that AI is going to replace knowledge jobs, so what's the point?

Ex-teacher here. I think smart phones and EdTech make it harder to develop work ethic, motivation and EF. I think this issue impacts SN kids more than it impacts NT kids. I predict that for every kid whose life is changed by spellcheck, or who will find AI to be the great leveler career wise, several other SN kids will drop further and further behind their peers. On average, it'll affect more boys than girls.

So true. I wish I could find a highschool for my 2E boy where he took all of his classes outside using actual text books, pen and paper. No cell phones allowed. All the screen time in school is absolutely killing him. It's not EdTech per se, as I'm following the debate on that thread, it's being on a screen all day, with very restrictions on distracting content. Some of the Edtech is fine if he was only on a screen for one or two hours a day and they blocked web access outside of that program. The issue is that he's on a screen all day at high school, and it's killing him. He's lost and overwhelmed and not learning.

[Anonymous]

Broken people have broken kids. You need to treat yourself first, OP, do you can help your kid.

[Anonymous]

OP. For those asking, the 2E parent is me. His father was an abusive alcoholic and we are divorced. They spend minimal time together. It would be more but dad (who is high functioning) is still drinking, every night after work. DC finds their time together stressful bc dad is volatile in the evenings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. For those asking, the 2E parent is me. His father was an abusive alcoholic and we are divorced. They spend minimal time together. It would be more but dad (who is high functioning) is still drinking, every night after work. DC finds their time together stressful bc dad is volatile in the evenings.

OP, this is a lot even for NT people. Add in your kid’s challenges and your own, and this is completely overwhelming. Please get yourself more support and have some compassion for yourself and your kid. I grew up with a high functioning but active alcoholic parent who was verbally abusive and still is. My mom did not leave him but talked about doing so constantly, which was a whole other problem, but I know well that what you did to get out of there is brave. It does not mean it’s not going to leave a mark on all of you. Yours is coming through as extreme frustration and burnout — well deserved, I would say — but please try to find some help. You have done hard things and you can do this too.