MCPS gave County list of snow issues on Sunday at 2:13 pm. Under 2 hours later MCPS blamed County for Monday closure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess this is devil's advocate, but why is it MCPS's job to tell the county where to clear the roads properly? The job being done properly should be the default and the fact that it had been a week since the storm and the county hadn't already figured that out in response to all the complaints and 311 calls they were getting, or by simply driving around and seeing what a mess things are, is ridiculous and not on MCPS.

MCPS probably kept waiting for the county to do the job taxpayers pay for of its own initiative, because that's how government services are supposed to work. Not only bothering to get around to it because the school system nagged them. "How could we be expected to know we did a bad job until MCPS told us at 2:13 on a Sunday?" What an absurd excuse. Why don't you supervise your own clearing efforts and monitor progress through some kind of organized system like an actual competent department?

The plowing job on surface streets has been completely subpar and an embarrassment.

[phone]

County is not responsible for school bus stops

The bus stops aren't the only problem. Some roads are not passable for buses due to the way they've been plowed and maneuverability issues. The buses couldn't even get to the stop. That is the fault of county plowing. And if a bus can't get down there, a fire truck probably couldn't either. Again, not on MCPS.

I completely agree that the county could have done better. However, the County prioritizes snow emergency routes for emergency vehicles. MCPS should coordinate with the County regarding its school bus routes. MCPS sending the County a list of issues on Sunday afternoon and not 2 hours later bashing the County publicly is incredibly disingenuous. They didn't care about opening, they cared about blaming someone in order to stay closed. If they really wanted to open they would have been communicating with the county much earlier.

Exactly. There's a need to prioritize snow removal resources. Things aren't going to be perfect. The objective is to clear roads enough for emergency services as broadly as possible and as quickly as possible. That can mean only clearing one lane on a multi-lane roadway. That is generally going to be good enough for most purposes, albeit road capacity may be lower, and people may need to drive more slowly. Improving capacity and convenience from there is going to take more time. And often will be resource-intensive, we're seeing places where they need to use loaders and trucks to move the snow (rather than just pushing it out of the way).

We shouldn't need to wait until everything is perfectly clear to reopen schools. If MCPS has specific requirements (e.g., for buses) that extend beyond what would otherwise be part of that minimum tier of plowing, then they're obligated to communicate them to the county and coordinate with them to open schools.

MCPS failed here.

No way. MCPS is in charge of schooling. DOT etc are in charge of clearing roads. They failed. As did 70% of homeowners and businesses around me..

Here, let me help:

Attention:MCDOT, MDOT, HOAs, Joe-Six-Pack

You need to clear roads and sidewalks so that they are suitable for use by busses and children who walk to school. I know you already knew this and just botched it but some clowns on a DB think its MCPS job, so you are hereby notified.


[/quote
It is MCPS's job to clear sidewalks on its properties and it often does not do this at the school near my house IME

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now try to imagine if electricity was out for several days too. Essential services are too vulnerable and freak storms will only increase. Nobody anticipate such ice, but also nobody tried to manage the aftermath. 8 days after, roads are crazy. Is anyone planning for the future storms? Because, next time, MCPS will be closed 2 weeks, or 3. What if supermarkets close for 5 straight days too? And MoCo is one of the richest counties in the country. There are huge lessons to be learnt here if we want to keep civilized order when bigger crises come.

Yes, I think the important thing is to look at what happened and identify lessons learned for the future. In the past I think we have always counted on the snow melting at some point. It's never been this cold for so long after a storm and it was a lot of precipitation. So yeah, MCDOT should think about planning for what they should do better when the snow doesn't melt.

But the message MCPS sent on Sunday publicly was inappropriate. If they had made those requests earlier and MCDOT was not responsive yeah I get they'd be peeved. But it just looks bad for them to point fingers without even trying to solve the issue first. It's trashy behavior.

Trashy or not, MCDOT deserves it. WTH are we all paying taxes for?

We're paying taxes for MCPS bureaucrats to take vacations for days after snow events have ended

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess this is devil's advocate, but why is it MCPS's job to tell the county where to clear the roads properly? The job being done properly should be the default and the fact that it had been a week since the storm and the county hadn't already figured that out in response to all the complaints and 311 calls they were getting, or by simply driving around and seeing what a mess things are, is ridiculous and not on MCPS.

MCPS probably kept waiting for the county to do the job taxpayers pay for of its own initiative, because that's how government services are supposed to work. Not only bothering to get around to it because the school system nagged them. "How could we be expected to know we did a bad job until MCPS told us at 2:13 on a Sunday?" What an absurd excuse. Why don't you supervise your own clearing efforts and monitor progress through some kind of organized system like an actual competent department?

The plowing job on surface streets has been completely subpar and an embarrassment.

[phone]

County is not responsible for school bus stops

The bus stops aren't the only problem. Some roads are not passable for buses due to the way they've been plowed and maneuverability issues. The buses couldn't even get to the stop. That is the fault of county plowing. And if a bus can't get down there, a fire truck probably couldn't either. Again, not on MCPS.

I completely agree that the county could have done better. However, the County prioritizes snow emergency routes for emergency vehicles. MCPS should coordinate with the County regarding its school bus routes. MCPS sending the County a list of issues on Sunday afternoon and not 2 hours later bashing the County publicly is incredibly disingenuous. They didn't care about opening, they cared about blaming someone in order to stay closed. If they really wanted to open they would have been communicating with the county much earlier.

Exactly. There's a need to prioritize snow removal resources. Things aren't going to be perfect. The objective is to clear roads enough for emergency services as broadly as possible and as quickly as possible. That can mean only clearing one lane on a multi-lane roadway. That is generally going to be good enough for most purposes, albeit road capacity may be lower, and people may need to drive more slowly. Improving capacity and convenience from there is going to take more time. And often will be resource-intensive, we're seeing places where they need to use loaders and trucks to move the snow (rather than just pushing it out of the way).

We shouldn't need to wait until everything is perfectly clear to reopen schools. If MCPS has specific requirements (e.g., for buses) that extend beyond what would otherwise be part of that minimum tier of plowing, then they're obligated to communicate them to the county and coordinate with them to open schools.

MCPS failed here.

No way. MCPS is in charge of schooling. DOT etc are in charge of clearing roads. They failed. As did 70% of homeowners and businesses around me..

Here, let me help:

Attention:MCDOT, MDOT, HOAs, Joe-Six-Pack

You need to clear roads and sidewalks so that they are suitable for use by busses and children who walk to school. I know you already knew this and just botched it but some clowns on a DB think its MCPS job, so you are hereby notified.

County buses ran on Monday. Most places opened on Tuesday. Nearly everything else operated on Wednesday. If the roads legitimate could not accommodate MCPS's unique needs, then MCPS has the obligation of communicating their needs. They obviously didn't do that.

MCPS needs to work with the county to adjust bus routes where necessary to roads that can be adequately make passable in a timely manner for buses. The county itself doesn't set school bus routes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess this is devil's advocate, but why is it MCPS's job to tell the county where to clear the roads properly? The job being done properly should be the default and the fact that it had been a week since the storm and the county hadn't already figured that out in response to all the complaints and 311 calls they were getting, or by simply driving around and seeing what a mess things are, is ridiculous and not on MCPS.

MCPS probably kept waiting for the county to do the job taxpayers pay for of its own initiative, because that's how government services are supposed to work. Not only bothering to get around to it because the school system nagged them. "How could we be expected to know we did a bad job until MCPS told us at 2:13 on a Sunday?" What an absurd excuse. Why don't you supervise your own clearing efforts and monitor progress through some kind of organized system like an actual competent department?

The plowing job on surface streets has been completely subpar and an embarrassment.

[phone]

County is not responsible for school bus stops

The bus stops aren't the only problem. Some roads are not passable for buses due to the way they've been plowed and maneuverability issues. The buses couldn't even get to the stop. That is the fault of county plowing. And if a bus can't get down there, a fire truck probably couldn't either. Again, not on MCPS.

I completely agree that the county could have done better. However, the County prioritizes snow emergency routes for emergency vehicles. MCPS should coordinate with the County regarding its school bus routes. MCPS sending the County a list of issues on Sunday afternoon and not 2 hours later bashing the County publicly is incredibly disingenuous. They didn't care about opening, they cared about blaming someone in order to stay closed. If they really wanted to open they would have been communicating with the county much earlier.

Which was why it was indicated that both should have communicated better. But the county doesn’t get a free pass when it plowed up mounds of ice everywhere as though it didn’t create problems along sidewalks and streets. It didn’t take rocket science to see that was going to be a problem for kid and school buses.

[Anonymous]

ITT: So many nanny state crybabies who expect their fairy godmother government to instantly solve all their problems

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard about that. I think MCPS was asleep at the wheel all of last week, not realizing that this snowstorm was different from all the other storms we've had, and that snowplows had great difficulty clearing the ice... and so MCPS panicked over the weekend when they realized parents would be furious if Monday wasn't open, and threw everyone under the bus. I noticed they blamed homeowners as well.

They were asleep because they didn't have to go to work at all. Code Red means everything is closed, and it was Code Red Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of last week. GMAFB

Seriously? Don’t public entities have a core of personnel that have to work to keep emergency operations going.

Contrast that with DC and Alexandria where they opened up on Wednesday including with food distribution sites.

I guess no one is holding MCPS accountable to a high standard. Or even a mediocre standard

Seriously please stop quoting this “DC and Alexandria where they opened up on Wednesday including with food distribution sites.” Clearly you have a hard on about those districts. MCPS has had food distributions sites open since last Wednesday.

And while I certainly think MCPS shoukd have communicated challenges more quickly, it's disingenuous for the county to act as if they don't understand what things are needed from them to ensure school can operate fully. They know sidewalks, bus stops, and space for buses to pass are needed. So really this is on everyone.

It’s accurate so no, there’s no reason to stop saying it. DC and Alexandria had virtual learning last Wednesday and food distribution while MCPS was closed. DC opened physically Thursday while Alexandria continued virtual learning til Monday.

I didn’t see communications about food distribution from MCPS. If they had it last Wednesday, great. But that doesn’t change the fact that two school districts that serve kids poorer than in MCPS got their act together days earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the county have a map of MCPS bus routes and bus stops?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/transportation/busroutes/

+1000 The school bus routes and stops are not some securely guarded secret.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard about that. I think MCPS was asleep at the wheel all of last week, not realizing that this snowstorm was different from all the other storms we've had, and that snowplows had great difficulty clearing the ice... and so MCPS panicked over the weekend when they realized parents would be furious if Monday wasn't open, and threw everyone under the bus. I noticed they blamed homeowners as well.

They were asleep because they didn't have to go to work at all. Code Red means everything is closed, and it was Code Red Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of last week. GMAFB

Seriously? Don’t public entities have a core of personnel that have to work to keep emergency operations going.

Contrast that with DC and Alexandria where they opened up on Wednesday including with food distribution sites.

I guess no one is holding MCPS accountable to a high standard. Or even a mediocre standard

Seriously please stop quoting this “DC and Alexandria where they opened up on Wednesday including with food distribution sites.” Clearly you have a hard on about those districts. MCPS has had food distributions sites open since last Wednesday.

And while I certainly think MCPS shoukd have communicated challenges more quickly, it's disingenuous for the county to act as if they don't understand what things are needed from them to ensure school can operate fully. They know sidewalks, bus stops, and space for buses to pass are needed. So really this is on everyone.

It’s accurate so no, there’s no reason to stop saying it. DC and Alexandria had virtual learning last Wednesday and food distribution while MCPS was closed. DC opened physically Thursday while Alexandria continued virtual learning til Monday.

I didn’t see communications about food distribution from MCPS. If they had it last Wednesday, great. But that doesn’t change the fact that two school districts that serve kids poorer than in MCPS got their act together days earlier.

They had lots of messages about food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard about that. I think MCPS was asleep at the wheel all of last week, not realizing that this snowstorm was different from all the other storms we've had, and that snowplows had great difficulty clearing the ice... and so MCPS panicked over the weekend when they realized parents would be furious if Monday wasn't open, and threw everyone under the bus. I noticed they blamed homeowners as well.

They were asleep because they didn't have to go to work at all. Code Red means everything is closed, and it was Code Red Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of last week. GMAFB

Seriously? Don’t public entities have a core of personnel that have to work to keep emergency operations going.

Contrast that with DC and Alexandria where they opened up on Wednesday including with food distribution sites.

I guess no one is holding MCPS accountable to a high standard. Or even a mediocre standard

Seriously please stop quoting this “DC and Alexandria where they opened up on Wednesday including with food distribution sites.” Clearly you have a hard on about those districts. MCPS has had food distributions sites open since last Wednesday.

And while I certainly think MCPS shoukd have communicated challenges more quickly, it's disingenuous for the county to act as if they don't understand what things are needed from them to ensure school can operate fully. They know sidewalks, bus stops, and space for buses to pass are needed. So really this is on everyone.

It’s accurate so no, there’s no reason to stop saying it. DC and Alexandria had virtual learning last Wednesday and food distribution while MCPS was closed. DC opened physically Thursday while Alexandria continued virtual learning til Monday.

I didn’t see communications about food distribution from MCPS. If they had it last Wednesday, great. But that doesn’t change the fact that two school districts that serve kids poorer than in MCPS got their act together days earlier.

Actually it does because the size of the school districts, how transportation operates, and the requirements for going virtual are not the same in every district. How many more kids take public transportation or walk in DC as compared to MCPs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the county have a map of MCPS bus routes and bus stops?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/transportation/busroutes/

+1000 The school bus routes and stops are not some securely guarded secret.

Do you seriously think this information is in a format that makes it efficient to identify streets/intersections with school bus service? It would take hours just to compile all of these individual PDF documents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard about that. I think MCPS was asleep at the wheel all of last week, not realizing that this snowstorm was different from all the other storms we've had, and that snowplows had great difficulty clearing the ice... and so MCPS panicked over the weekend when they realized parents would be furious if Monday wasn't open, and threw everyone under the bus. I noticed they blamed homeowners as well.

They were asleep because they didn't have to go to work at all. Code Red means everything is closed, and it was Code Red Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of last week. GMAFB

Seriously? Don’t public entities have a core of personnel that have to work to keep emergency operations going.

Contrast that with DC and Alexandria where they opened up on Wednesday including with food distribution sites.

I guess no one is holding MCPS accountable to a high standard. Or even a mediocre standard

Seriously please stop quoting this “DC and Alexandria where they opened up on Wednesday including with food distribution sites.” Clearly you have a hard on about those districts. MCPS has had food distributions sites open since last Wednesday.

And while I certainly think MCPS shoukd have communicated challenges more quickly, it's disingenuous for the county to act as if they don't understand what things are needed from them to ensure school can operate fully. They know sidewalks, bus stops, and space for buses to pass are needed. So really this is on everyone.

It’s accurate so no, there’s no reason to stop saying it. DC and Alexandria had virtual learning last Wednesday and food distribution while MCPS was closed. DC opened physically Thursday while Alexandria continued virtual learning til Monday.

I didn’t see communications about food distribution from MCPS. If they had it last Wednesday, great. But that doesn’t change the fact that two school districts that serve kids poorer than in MCPS got their act together days earlier.

Actually it does because the size of the school districts, how transportation operates, and the requirements for going virtual are not the same in every district. How many more kids take public transportation or walk in DC as compared to MCPs?

NYC has 10x the number of kids than MCPS, and a much larger geographic area that crosses 5 boroughs, some of which are far poorer than MoCO. They didn’t close a single day. They were virtual on the Monday after the storm and open physically every day afterwards. MCPS opened 8 days after NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the county have a map of MCPS bus routes and bus stops?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/transportation/busroutes/

+1000 The school bus routes and stops are not some securely guarded secret.

Do you seriously think this information is in a format that makes it efficient to identify streets/intersections with school bus service? It would take hours just to compile all of these individual PDF documents.

I’m sure AI or some kid at Blair SMCS could do it even faster. It’s ridiculous to say that these are unknown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the county have a map of MCPS bus routes and bus stops?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/transportation/busroutes/

+1000 The school bus routes and stops are not some securely guarded secret.

Do you seriously think this information is in a format that makes it efficient to identify streets/intersections with school bus service? It would take hours just to compile all of these individual PDF documents.

They're not even routes- just the stops. MoCo would need full routes in a machine readable format.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the county have a map of MCPS bus routes and bus stops?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/transportation/busroutes/

+1000 The school bus routes and stops are not some securely guarded secret.

Do you seriously think this information is in a format that makes it efficient to identify streets/intersections with school bus service? It would take hours just to compile all of these individual PDF documents.

I’m sure AI or some kid at Blair SMCS could do it even faster. It’s ridiculous to say that these are unknown.

Maybe, if you accept errors and don't care about actually following the bus paths.

Even then, "hours" underestimates the work. Parsing the pdfs would be hours. Building routes and outputting them in a standardized format would be many more.

Maybe MCPS has already done that, but I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

This is not the smoking gun you think it is. You could just as easily argue that the county shouldn’t need a list.