Any shared insights / lessons learned on designing best-for-kids custody situations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is he in a smaller place and farther away? The expectation should be same standard of living in both homes. Kids will start not wanting to go to his place if it is far from friends and activities and they have to share a room there. Finances should be arranged so he lives close by and has rooms for each.

Could dad take the kids after work for an evening or two each week and then do a Friday afterschool until Sunday am type routine? That way he would still have one day of the week for himself but see the kids 3-4 days a week and have a long stretch with them where he would gets substantial time.

It was where he wanted to be. It's an easier commute to his work and a more cosmopolitan/nightlife area.

The one school night a week plus weekend time seems to be the most common solution to this issue. It does mean moving the kids back and forth a lot during the week. But there's no perfect solution. I am hoping as the kids get older the shuffling around will get easier. And in a few years we may consider moving to have closer/more parity in housing when they are done with elementary school.

But you see, PP, you have to save him from himself or else you are the evil shrew. Even when divorced, you must act as his social secretary, handle relations with his parents, and provide parent coaching so that he doesn't become estranged from his kids.

Ah. So what you're saying is, I can't win this game I never wanted to play.

Will they send me an evil shrew card in the mail?

[Anonymous]

The custody case I know where both kids were happy with it was one where my friend and her ex lived only a few streets apart. Both kids had equal space and stuff at each house. There was a one week at moms, one week at dads custody agreement but due to competitive sports, parent travel, who needed homework help and with what, and who was cooking what for dinner, the kids kind of went where they wanted after school / evening (but mostly slept in the home that had custody that week). They more or less let the kids lead within reason / routine.

I currently know a teen who rarely sees his mom as she moved to the outskirts of the city so now he just stays at his dads even though parents have 50/50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is he in a smaller place and farther away? The expectation should be same standard of living in both homes. Kids will start not wanting to go to his place if it is far from friends and activities and they have to share a room there. Finances should be arranged so he lives close by and has rooms for each.

Could dad take the kids after work for an evening or two each week and then do a Friday afterschool until Sunday am type routine? That way he would still have one day of the week for himself but see the kids 3-4 days a week and have a long stretch with them where he would gets substantial time.

Why is that the expectation?

Picture it. Your spouse lives in nice house near the school. The kids each have their own rooms and can easily get to and from school, hang out with friends, and get to community activities and to extracurriculars. You live a distance away in an apartment. when the kids are with you they don't have their own space and the living area is small with less comforts, they need to endure a long commute to and from school, can't easily get together with friends, and there needs to be a lot of planning and time put into getting to extracurriculars. Over time they want to stop coming to your place. There are too many inconviences and not enough comforts compared to their other home. Their friends become more important and they want more independence to hang out with friends and move around the community and get to and from school. Would you really be fine with that?

If you don't think it should be an expectation then you should be the parent in the smaller space far away.

But it's often the parent in the smaller space far away, who chose that smaller space far away. Full respect to those small-space parents who battled it out for primary custody or the house and lost, that certainly feels awful and I agree a court should enforce an expectation along these lines over what might feel like banishment. But what do you do when it's the parent themselves who prefer that? Are you also going to order the remaining spouse to sell the house and move the kids away from their school/community to live in a smaller space to be closer to apartment parent?

No, if the parent chose purely for their own personal selfish reasons to move far away from their kids and to get a small place , then that is on them. Clearly if they financially could have had a bigger place and intentionally got something small that didn't have a room for each child, they don't really want the kids to spend much time there.

The whole premise for child support is to reduce inequities between homes. It isn't an expectation I came up with!

One of (several I think PPs) - thank you, now I understand your point about expectation.

Oh good, I was talking about the kind of situation where one parent keeps the family home and the other parent can't afford to buy a similar home in the same area and has to go smaller or farther out due to finances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking for some wisdom or "been there done that" advice on our situation. Assume a best-interest standard rather than a default 50/50 setup, with both parents currently cooperative and focused on co-parenting effectively. The children are in early elementary school.

Both parents work and can afford some childcare support (afterschool coverage and occasional babysitting). I (the mother) have historically managed the children’s lives and routines—drop-off, pick-up, bedtime—and have a more flexible job. The father’s work can include unexpected early mornings, late nights, and travel. We both agree that an every-other-week 50/50 schedule isn’t the best fit for our family right now. The children’s school and friends are near our home, which we both agree I will keep. The father’s apartment is farther from school and smaller (the kids share a room there).

We are discussing something closer to a 70/30 or 80/20 schedule to keep routines consistent, while still giving both parents meaningful time with the kids. I’d love to hear from anyone who’s found a schedule along these lines that works well for children of this age. We would like to balance stability, parent involvement, and time for each parent to recharge.

For those who have been through similar transitions, did your arrangements evolve as your kids got older, and if so, what worked best long-term? Also, is it typical for kids to initially resist time at the other parent’s new home, even when the co-parenting relationship is positive?

So, the 'best interest standard' is typically presumed to be 50/50. However, if both parents agree to something else, that can be in the order. If the father in this case wanted 50/50, he'd get it. In this case OP, you might consider him having a weeknight and every other weekend and long holiday weekends. And also ROFR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is he in a smaller place and farther away? The expectation should be same standard of living in both homes. Kids will start not wanting to go to his place if it is far from friends and activities and they have to share a room there. Finances should be arranged so he lives close by and has rooms for each.

Could dad take the kids after work for an evening or two each week and then do a Friday afterschool until Sunday am type routine? That way he would still have one day of the week for himself but see the kids 3-4 days a week and have a long stretch with them where he would gets substantial time.

Why is that the expectation?

Picture it. Your spouse lives in nice house near the school. The kids each have their own rooms and can easily get to and from school, hang out with friends, and get to community activities and to extracurriculars. You live a distance away in an apartment. when the kids are with you they don't have their own space and the living area is small with less comforts, they need to endure a long commute to and from school, can't easily get together with friends, and there needs to be a lot of planning and time put into getting to extracurriculars. Over time they want to stop coming to your place. There are too many inconviences and not enough comforts compared to their other home. Their friends become more important and they want more independence to hang out with friends and move around the community and get to and from school. Would you really be fine with that?

If you don't think it should be an expectation then you should be the parent in the smaller space far away.

You have to be a pretty insecure parent to think that having a smaller house means your kids won’t love you. Plus it’s not like you can force your ex not to rent or buy a nicer place than you. I’m not clear on why you are blaming this on your ex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is he in a smaller place and farther away? The expectation should be same standard of living in both homes. Kids will start not wanting to go to his place if it is far from friends and activities and they have to share a room there. Finances should be arranged so he lives close by and has rooms for each.

Could dad take the kids after work for an evening or two each week and then do a Friday afterschool until Sunday am type routine? That way he would still have one day of the week for himself but see the kids 3-4 days a week and have a long stretch with them where he would gets substantial time.

Why is that the expectation?

Picture it. Your spouse lives in nice house near the school. The kids each have their own rooms and can easily get to and from school, hang out with friends, and get to community activities and to extracurriculars. You live a distance away in an apartment. when the kids are with you they don't have their own space and the living area is small with less comforts, they need to endure a long commute to and from school, can't easily get together with friends, and there needs to be a lot of planning and time put into getting to extracurriculars. Over time they want to stop coming to your place. There are too many inconviences and not enough comforts compared to their other home. Their friends become more important and they want more independence to hang out with friends and move around the community and get to and from school. Would you really be fine with that?

If you don't think it should be an expectation then you should be the parent in the smaller space far away.

But it's often the parent in the smaller space far away, who chose that smaller space far away. Full respect to those small-space parents who battled it out for primary custody or the house and lost, that certainly feels awful and I agree a court should enforce an expectation along these lines over what might feel like banishment. But what do you do when it's the parent themselves who prefer that? Are you also going to order the remaining spouse to sell the house and move the kids away from their school/community to live in a smaller space to be closer to apartment parent?

No, if the parent chose purely for their own personal selfish reasons to move far away from their kids and to get a small place , then that is on them. Clearly if they financially could have had a bigger place and intentionally got something small that didn't have a room for each child, they don't really want the kids to spend much time there.

The whole premise for child support is to reduce inequities between homes. It isn't an expectation I came up with!

One of (several I think PPs) - thank you, now I understand your point about expectation.

Oh good, I was talking about the kind of situation where one parent keeps the family home and the other parent can't afford to buy a similar home in the same area and has to go smaller or farther out due to finances.

Then you find a way to make 50-50 work including both parents moving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is he in a smaller place and farther away? The expectation should be same standard of living in both homes. Kids will start not wanting to go to his place if it is far from friends and activities and they have to share a room there. Finances should be arranged so he lives close by and has rooms for each.

Could dad take the kids after work for an evening or two each week and then do a Friday afterschool until Sunday am type routine? That way he would still have one day of the week for himself but see the kids 3-4 days a week and have a long stretch with them where he would gets substantial time.

Why is that the expectation?

Picture it. Your spouse lives in nice house near the school. The kids each have their own rooms and can easily get to and from school, hang out with friends, and get to community activities and to extracurriculars. You live a distance away in an apartment. when the kids are with you they don't have their own space and the living area is small with less comforts, they need to endure a long commute to and from school, can't easily get together with friends, and there needs to be a lot of planning and time put into getting to extracurriculars. Over time they want to stop coming to your place. There are too many inconviences and not enough comforts compared to their other home. Their friends become more important and they want more independence to hang out with friends and move around the community and get to and from school. Would you really be fine with that?

If you don't think it should be an expectation then you should be the parent in the smaller space far away.

You have to be a pretty insecure parent to think that having a smaller house means your kids won’t love you. Plus it’s not like you can force your ex not to rent or buy a nicer place than you. I’m not clear on why you are blaming this on your ex.

+ 1. We have a small house. Why is it a problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is he in a smaller place and farther away? The expectation should be same standard of living in both homes. Kids will start not wanting to go to his place if it is far from friends and activities and they have to share a room there. Finances should be arranged so he lives close by and has rooms for each.

Could dad take the kids after work for an evening or two each week and then do a Friday afterschool until Sunday am type routine? That way he would still have one day of the week for himself but see the kids 3-4 days a week and have a long stretch with them where he would gets substantial time.

It was where he wanted to be. It's an easier commute to his work and a more cosmopolitan/nightlife area.

The one school night a week plus weekend time seems to be the most common solution to this issue. It does mean moving the kids back and forth a lot during the week. But there's no perfect solution. I am hoping as the kids get older the shuffling around will get easier. And in a few years we may consider moving to have closer/more parity in housing when they are done with elementary school.

But you see, PP, you have to save him from himself or else you are the evil shrew. Even when divorced, you must act as his social secretary, handle relations with his parents, and provide parent coaching so that he doesn't become estranged from his kids.

I took care of my mil. She was so kind to me. How is that a bad thing? Husband’s income allowed me to. It’s called marriage and family. You alienated people and then complain. You created your mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is he in a smaller place and farther away? The expectation should be same standard of living in both homes. Kids will start not wanting to go to his place if it is far from friends and activities and they have to share a room there. Finances should be arranged so he lives close by and has rooms for each.

Could dad take the kids after work for an evening or two each week and then do a Friday afterschool until Sunday am type routine? That way he would still have one day of the week for himself but see the kids 3-4 days a week and have a long stretch with them where he would gets substantial time.

Why is that the expectation?

Picture it. Your spouse lives in nice house near the school. The kids each have their own rooms and can easily get to and from school, hang out with friends, and get to community activities and to extracurriculars. You live a distance away in an apartment. when the kids are with you they don't have their own space and the living area is small with less comforts, they need to endure a long commute to and from school, can't easily get together with friends, and there needs to be a lot of planning and time put into getting to extracurriculars. Over time they want to stop coming to your place. There are too many inconviences and not enough comforts compared to their other home. Their friends become more important and they want more independence to hang out with friends and move around the community and get to and from school. Would you really be fine with that?

If you don't think it should be an expectation then you should be the parent in the smaller space far away.

You have to be a pretty insecure parent to think that having a smaller house means your kids won’t love you. Plus it’s not like you can force your ex not to rent or buy a nicer place than you. I’m not clear on why you are blaming this on your ex.

+ 1. We have a small house. Why is it a problem?

The only way the house issue can really matter is if the parents cannot live in close proximity because rent/RE is so high. No parent has a right to as big a house as their ex has. But if parents sincerely want to make things easier on kids they will make an effort to minimize the impact on them by considering factors like how to keep the family home, school and neighborhood the same, while enabling the parents to live close. Sometimes this might mean one parent has a bigger house and the other has an apartment. I have been on both sides of that equation (bigger house and now smaller apartment) and I have zero worries that my apartment being smaller than dad’s house will make any difference at all in where my kid wants to live.

[Anonymous]

Slightly off topic, but be very, very specific in the custody agreement about extracurricular activities, especially team sports, school band, and social activities like birthday parties. A couple of years into coparenting, my ex remarried and moved 45 minutes away. His new wife resented the time he spent on our children's activities, so he banned the kids from participating in any activities on their time. They were dropped from competitive soccer, took grade hits in school band, missed birthday parties, and so on. Eventually, he and his wife moved out of the country, so the issue resolved itself, but at a significant cost to our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Slightly off topic, but be very, very specific in the custody agreement about extracurricular activities, especially team sports, school band, and social activities like birthday parties. A couple of years into coparenting, my ex remarried and moved 45 minutes away. His new wife resented the time he spent on our children's activities, so he banned the kids from participating in any activities on their time. They were dropped from competitive soccer, took grade hits in school band, missed birthday parties, and so on. Eventually, he and his wife moved out of the country, so the issue resolved itself, but at a significant cost to our kids.

NP and a 45 minute move is my nightmare, especially if it’s 45 minutes in traffic but not necessarily on paper. I know my STBX would do something like that and use the distance against me.

Is there any way to ensure continuity of extracurriculars? I’m still in early stages of planning and have heard everything from “you can’t” to “build it all into the settlement including future possible activities.” Mine are barely tweens so I can see their extracurriculars and social life shifting in a way that’s hard to anticipate right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly off topic, but be very, very specific in the custody agreement about extracurricular activities, especially team sports, school band, and social activities like birthday parties. A couple of years into coparenting, my ex remarried and moved 45 minutes away. His new wife resented the time he spent on our children's activities, so he banned the kids from participating in any activities on their time. They were dropped from competitive soccer, took grade hits in school band, missed birthday parties, and so on. Eventually, he and his wife moved out of the country, so the issue resolved itself, but at a significant cost to our kids.

NP and a 45 minute move is my nightmare, especially if it’s 45 minutes in traffic but not necessarily on paper. I know my STBX would do something like that and use the distance against me.

Is there any way to ensure continuity of extracurriculars? I’m still in early stages of planning and have heard everything from “you can’t” to “build it all into the settlement including future possible activities.” Mine are barely tweens so I can see their extracurriculars and social life shifting in a way that’s hard to anticipate right now.

This is one of those clauses you need to draft yourself, then give it to your attorney to review. In our modified agreement, I specified what their activities are and how long they've done each of them to tell a story, and that both parents agree to CONTINUE to support their activities and their activities shall take precedent over either parent's time. If one parent declines to take them, require them to give the other parent a certain amount of notice, and the other gets a right of first refusal to cover the activity. No makeup time if a parent forfeits time for an activity. Say you can substitute one activity for another at the kids' directions. Include a remedy for violating the clause, like contempt of court, plus the defaulting party pays attorney's fees. Spend time thinking about all the ways your exs can hold your children hostage to punish you, and draft around them. Use ChatGPT or another tool for help. Draft the agreement as if you will have to take it to court multiple times to enforce it, so it needs to tell a clear story with well-defined requirements and consequences. Your ex may not agree. Mine did because he owed me a lot of back support, which I forgave to get the modifications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly off topic, but be very, very specific in the custody agreement about extracurricular activities, especially team sports, school band, and social activities like birthday parties. A couple of years into coparenting, my ex remarried and moved 45 minutes away. His new wife resented the time he spent on our children's activities, so he banned the kids from participating in any activities on their time. They were dropped from competitive soccer, took grade hits in school band, missed birthday parties, and so on. Eventually, he and his wife moved out of the country, so the issue resolved itself, but at a significant cost to our kids.

NP and a 45 minute move is my nightmare, especially if it’s 45 minutes in traffic but not necessarily on paper. I know my STBX would do something like that and use the distance against me.

Is there any way to ensure continuity of extracurriculars? I’m still in early stages of planning and have heard everything from “you can’t” to “build it all into the settlement including future possible activities.” Mine are barely tweens so I can see their extracurriculars and social life shifting in a way that’s hard to anticipate right now.

You can try to include something about how parents agree that extracurriculars are in the children’s best interests and that you will support the activities. You could add in something more specific like that the kids will be able to do a minimum of two activities and a process to select and plan those jointly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly off topic, but be very, very specific in the custody agreement about extracurricular activities, especially team sports, school band, and social activities like birthday parties. A couple of years into coparenting, my ex remarried and moved 45 minutes away. His new wife resented the time he spent on our children's activities, so he banned the kids from participating in any activities on their time. They were dropped from competitive soccer, took grade hits in school band, missed birthday parties, and so on. Eventually, he and his wife moved out of the country, so the issue resolved itself, but at a significant cost to our kids.

NP and a 45 minute move is my nightmare, especially if it’s 45 minutes in traffic but not necessarily on paper. I know my STBX would do something like that and use the distance against me.

Is there any way to ensure continuity of extracurriculars? I’m still in early stages of planning and have heard everything from “you can’t” to “build it all into the settlement including future possible activities.” Mine are barely tweens so I can see their extracurriculars and social life shifting in a way that’s hard to anticipate right now.

This is one of those clauses you need to draft yourself, then give it to your attorney to review. In our modified agreement, I specified what their activities are and how long they've done each of them to tell a story, and that both parents agree to CONTINUE to support their activities and their activities shall take precedent over either parent's time. If one parent declines to take them, require them to give the other parent a certain amount of notice, and the other gets a right of first refusal to cover the activity. No makeup time if a parent forfeits time for an activity. Say you can substitute one activity for another at the kids' directions. Include a remedy for violating the clause, like contempt of court, plus the defaulting party pays attorney's fees. Spend time thinking about all the ways your exs can hold your children hostage to punish you, and draft around them. Use ChatGPT or another tool for help. Draft the agreement as if you will have to take it to court multiple times to enforce it, so it needs to tell a clear story with well-defined requirements and consequences. Your ex may not agree. Mine did because he owed me a lot of back support, which I forgave to get the modifications.

This is terrible as mom can do all the activities on dad's time and then say kids cannot see dad becuase of activities. You held your kids hostage and refused contact. I feel bad for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly off topic, but be very, very specific in the custody agreement about extracurricular activities, especially team sports, school band, and social activities like birthday parties. A couple of years into coparenting, my ex remarried and moved 45 minutes away. His new wife resented the time he spent on our children's activities, so he banned the kids from participating in any activities on their time. They were dropped from competitive soccer, took grade hits in school band, missed birthday parties, and so on. Eventually, he and his wife moved out of the country, so the issue resolved itself, but at a significant cost to our kids.

NP and a 45 minute move is my nightmare, especially if it’s 45 minutes in traffic but not necessarily on paper. I know my STBX would do something like that and use the distance against me.

Is there any way to ensure continuity of extracurriculars? I’m still in early stages of planning and have heard everything from “you can’t” to “build it all into the settlement including future possible activities.” Mine are barely tweens so I can see their extracurriculars and social life shifting in a way that’s hard to anticipate right now.

This is one of those clauses you need to draft yourself, then give it to your attorney to review. In our modified agreement, I specified what their activities are and how long they've done each of them to tell a story, and that both parents agree to CONTINUE to support their activities and their activities shall take precedent over either parent's time. If one parent declines to take them, require them to give the other parent a certain amount of notice, and the other gets a right of first refusal to cover the activity. No makeup time if a parent forfeits time for an activity. Say you can substitute one activity for another at the kids' directions. Include a remedy for violating the clause, like contempt of court, plus the defaulting party pays attorney's fees. Spend time thinking about all the ways your exs can hold your children hostage to punish you, and draft around them. Use ChatGPT or another tool for help. Draft the agreement as if you will have to take it to court multiple times to enforce it, so it needs to tell a clear story with well-defined requirements and consequences. Your ex may not agree. Mine did because he owed me a lot of back support, which I forgave to get the modifications.

This is terrible as mom can do all the activities on dad's time and then say kids cannot see dad becuase of activities. You held your kids hostage and refused contact. I feel bad for your kids.

How much energy does it take to camp out here and on the relationships forum and lie in wait to barf out your men’s rights nonsense every night? It’s getting old.