Another Cornell death this fall

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP. My kid is a sophomore. It’s not faux outrage. My kid just left home this afternoon to go back.

I’m Worried given my kid is stressed about a class.

Median grade in a stem bio prelim was a 69. Just fyi. The median for some of the stem classes is just crazy. Has As in 2 Econ classes so it’s not that.

Yes engineering/STEM classes are brutal, always have been. I can recall (at a T10 school) having a calculus course (calc 4 so not freshman) where the average was 18% (yes you read that right). Top score on a midterm (30 students) was 36, someone else had a 32 and then it dropped to 25 and on the way down. I had a 31 and got an A in the course. But it was frustrating to attend class, study and do the work and sit in a midterm and literally have no clue what you were doing and wheterh you were goign to pass or fail. And I was "at the top of the class", so I have to imagine the stressors for those with 12/15% in the course felt like.

Are these holistic admits that don't understand simple scaling? Why does it matter what the score is if there's a curve? Does a 55 F feel better than a 12 F? Anyone failing a class probably shouldn't be at that school to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Entry to an elite college does not erase the baggage you arrive with. In fact, it usually intensifies by being in a competitive environment with other equally high performing students not competing with each other for clubs, internships, grad school, sports.

Hug your kids. Don't put undo pressure on them or push them to enter high pressure enviros unless you know they can handle it. Don't assume they will if you've seen cracks in high school - depression, anxiety, addictive behavior, unhealthy coping, eating disorders, shame, anger issues, masking.

LOVE LOVE this. I wish we could pin this and make it required reading for all DCUM parents. Life is precious and too short.

[Anonymous]

Gray climate
Years of parental pressure surrounding academics
Bipolar and schizophrenia first show up at these ages and both are linked to suicides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like RFK Jr has found his thread and has his new MAHA issue. The weather causes suicide! Sheesh, you people are so misinformed. Anyway, I’m very sorry for this student, their loved ones, and the entire Cornell community.

Cold gloomy weather is absolutely a risk factor for depression/suicide. Ever heard of seasonal affective disorder?

It can impact those who are already prone to mental health issues, but some folks here are just jumping to conclusions and making assumptions without any factual basis by suggesting this student took his life due to weather (when it hasn’t even been gloomy in Ithaca recently). It’s not helpful to attempt to diagnose in these situations when you have no information, knowledge, or medical training.

Said: died on Monday while home for Fall Break. Home was MA not in NY. There was a noreaster in MA recently. Someone suffering will have typically been so for longer before attempting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year one of the kids was a professor's kid who grew up in Ithaca.

It's the demographic, it's a mental health crisis that's not unique to this campus. All the selective schools have kids who are struggling. And staff as well.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/head-mental-health-services-university-pennsylvania-dies-suicide-n1052156

It's really tedious for people to always bring this up about Cornell. Seriously, just stop with the fake concern. Just take it off your list.

I agree that it's the demographic. This generation is arriving at college with lots and lots of mental health issues, often previously untreated.

And the pressures of 4 years of HS, preparing to do anything and everything so you gain admission to the "best college" is not helping. These kids have often never had a "failure" in anything, so when you arrive on campus and get a B or C (or worse) in a course they are not prepared to deal with it, and often times the message from home is "be perfect" so they don't feel supported. Add in alcohol and hazing (in some cases) and the struggle to fit in and be perfect is too much.
The pressure we are putting HS kids and then college kids under is not good

Bingo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year one of the kids was a professor's kid who grew up in Ithaca.

It's the demographic, it's a mental health crisis that's not unique to this campus. All the selective schools have kids who are struggling. And staff as well.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/head-mental-health-services-university-pennsylvania-dies-suicide-n1052156

It's really tedious for people to always bring this up about Cornell. Seriously, just stop with the fake concern. Just take it off your list.

I agree that it's the demographic. This generation is arriving at college with lots and lots of mental health issues, often previously untreated.

And the pressures of 4 years of HS, preparing to do anything and everything so you gain admission to the "best college" is not helping. These kids have often never had a "failure" in anything, so when you arrive on campus and get a B or C (or worse) in a course they are not prepared to deal with it, and often times the message from home is "be perfect" so they don't feel supported. Add in alcohol and hazing (in some cases) and the struggle to fit in and be perfect is too much.
The pressure we are putting HS kids and then college kids under is not good

Bingo

I don’t buy this. Pressure to what? Get good grades? That isn’t a life pressure. And if they don’t…they don’t get their full allowance? Big deal. If this “pressure” is going to put you over the edge, than literally anything could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Entry to an elite college does not erase the baggage you arrive with. In fact, it usually intensifies by being in a competitive environment with other equally high performing students and competing with each other for clubs, internships, grad school, sports.

Hug your kids. Don't put undo pressure on them or push them to enter high pressure enviros unless you know they can handle it. Don't assume they will if you've seen cracks in high school - depression, anxiety, addictive behavior, unhealthy coping, eating disorders, shame, anger issues, masking.

100%. I love this insight and - so important to remember this before it's too late!

[Anonymous]

University of Florida.

Has more suicides than Cornell.

They just don't report them.

Ask me how I know.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gray climate
Years of parental pressure surrounding academics
Bipolar and schizophrenia first show up at these ages and both are linked to suicides.

+1
And not just a Cornell thing, suicides happen at all campuses.

[Anonymous]

Entry to an elite college does not erase the baggage you arrive with. In fact, it usually intensifies by being in a competitive environment with other equally high performing students and competing with each other for clubs, internships, grad school, sports.

Hug your kids. Don't put undo pressure on them or push them to enter high pressure enviros unless you know they can handle it. Don't assume they will if you've seen cracks in high school - depression, anxiety, addictive behavior, unhealthy coping, eating disorders, shame, anger issues, masking.





100%. I love this insight and - so important to remember this before it's too late!

Brilliant and true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP. My kid is a sophomore. It’s not faux outrage. My kid just left home this afternoon to go back.

I’m Worried given my kid is stressed about a class.

Median grade in a stem bio prelim was a 69. Just fyi. The median for some of the stem classes is just crazy. Has As in 2 Econ classes so it’s not that.

Yes engineering/STEM classes are brutal, always have been. I can recall (at a T10 school) having a calculus course (calc 4 so not freshman) where the average was 18% (yes you read that right). Top score on a midterm (30 students) was 36, someone else had a 32 and then it dropped to 25 and on the way down. I had a 31 and got an A in the course. But it was frustrating to attend class, study and do the work and sit in a midterm and literally have no clue what you were doing and wheterh you were goign to pass or fail. And I was "at the top of the class", so I have to imagine the stressors for those with 12/15% in the course felt like.

Well, it seems this kid grew up in New England, went to an elite boarding school, and was a history major. So weather, academic pressure, and difficult major - like engineering - aren't the issues here. Despair can hit anyone. Awful situation. But I don't think this was somehow caused by anything intrinsic to Cornell.

I can recall a suicide at my college. It didn't make national news. Depression doesn't care what school you go to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP. My kid is a sophomore. It’s not faux outrage. My kid just left home this afternoon to go back.

I’m Worried given my kid is stressed about a class.

Median grade in a stem bio prelim was a 69. Just fyi. The median for some of the stem classes is just crazy. Has As in 2 Econ classes so it’s not that.

Yes engineering/STEM classes are brutal, always have been. I can recall (at a T10 school) having a calculus course (calc 4 so not freshman) where the average was 18% (yes you read that right). Top score on a midterm (30 students) was 36, someone else had a 32 and then it dropped to 25 and on the way down. I had a 31 and got an A in the course. But it was frustrating to attend class, study and do the work and sit in a midterm and literally have no clue what you were doing and wheterh you were goign to pass or fail. And I was "at the top of the class", so I have to imagine the stressors for those with 12/15% in the course felt like.

Depression doesn't care what school you go to.

💯

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP. My kid is a sophomore. It’s not faux outrage. My kid just left home this afternoon to go back.

I’m Worried given my kid is stressed about a class.

Median grade in a stem bio prelim was a 69. Just fyi. The median for some of the stem classes is just crazy. Has As in 2 Econ classes so it’s not that.

Yes engineering/STEM classes are brutal, always have been. I can recall (at a T10 school) having a calculus course (calc 4 so not freshman) where the average was 18% (yes you read that right). Top score on a midterm (30 students) was 36, someone else had a 32 and then it dropped to 25 and on the way down. I had a 31 and got an A in the course. But it was frustrating to attend class, study and do the work and sit in a midterm and literally have no clue what you were doing and wheterh you were goign to pass or fail. And I was "at the top of the class", so I have to imagine the stressors for those with 12/15% in the course felt like.

This is not limited to Cornell. Many top schools have median scores or 30-70% out of 100 based on some professors enjoying giving a very challeng ing test, but then they curve that median grade to a B or B+ at Cornell, or a B+ or even and A- at other schools. Many freshman do not understand how college grading works. Below the median often still earns a B- or even a B. As another posted, the median in humanities courses at Cornell is A-. It is not accurate to blame Cornell grading for a mental health tragedy. There was a recent year where NCState had 5 suicides in a few months. This happens everywhere, most unfortunately. It is a mental health crisis with this age group.

oh I understood how college grading worked. But it's still incredibly defeating and frustrating to study/go to office hours and TA hours/be as prepared as you can be and sit thru an exam and literally think "well I could end up with an F or I could have the best score in the class, I literally have no clue which". That is not testing knowledge or learning at all, but many STEM profs are known for doing this (back then and still)

I was ultimately a 3.9+ GPA in college with an engineering and Music performance double major (almost 6.5 years worth of courses crammed into 5 years, so tons of overloading and two very time consuming majors). Yet the 3-4 times I sat thru courses like this it was mentally frustrating. Sure I got an A or A-, but it's extremely frustrating. So it's easy to see in today's environment of push push push the kids have been in for 10+ years already, to have a course like that could send someone over the edge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP. My kid is a sophomore. It’s not faux outrage. My kid just left home this afternoon to go back.

I’m Worried given my kid is stressed about a class.

Median grade in a stem bio prelim was a 69. Just fyi. The median for some of the stem classes is just crazy. Has As in 2 Econ classes so it’s not that.

Yes engineering/STEM classes are brutal, always have been. I can recall (at a T10 school) having a calculus course (calc 4 so not freshman) where the average was 18% (yes you read that right). Top score on a midterm (30 students) was 36, someone else had a 32 and then it dropped to 25 and on the way down. I had a 31 and got an A in the course. But it was frustrating to attend class, study and do the work and sit in a midterm and literally have no clue what you were doing and wheterh you were goign to pass or fail. And I was "at the top of the class", so I have to imagine the stressors for those with 12/15% in the course felt like.

Are these holistic admits that don't understand simple scaling? Why does it matter what the score is if there's a curve? Does a 55 F feel better than a 12 F? Anyone failing a class probably shouldn't be at that school to begin with.

Umm...in the above example the 36 became the "100%" and the curve/grading went from there. the 18% ended up being a B or B- range. So sure you know it will be curved, but it's beyond frustrating to take exams where you have no clue how you did, despite being very prepared.
When the average is an 18%, that shows the prof either didn't teach the material or has created an exam that is not testing anything related to what was taught in the course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gray climate
Years of parental pressure surrounding academics
Bipolar and schizophrenia first show up at these ages and both are linked to suicides.

The "Gray climate" doesn't push normal people over the edge. kids at high pressure schools that get sun also end their life via suicide. IT's more the last two points. With the parental pressure being the biggest