DC United Regional Development School

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is[b] and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

First, thanks for these details! NP to this thread. Not sure whether you are the same poster who provided the FIFA rules and breakdown in the DCU thread but it helped me understand how current American families are currently overseas without dual citizenship and I appreciate it. Three questions as our plan is to get overseas:

1) How early are we talking in terms of making the move?

2) My kid has remained competitive internationally over the years but I hear there is a separation period around 14-16. What is happening overseas that we can’t try to replicate here? I know many people jump to 11v11 too quickly and start focusing on tactics and endurance versus technique but we have managed to stay away from those environments.

3) Have any parents chosen to pay an MLS academy the training costs to retain their players rights? I am in the fortunate position that I afford the training. My biggest fear is the profit motives of a MLS club jamming up my kids opportunity with these development fees as described.

Any insight is appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You have inside information on the conversations and decision making of Manchester City and the Sullivan family?

Does him being Under 16 at the time of the original deal have something to do with the timing of his move to City?

Man City is flush with money. Giving Philly Union some chump change is not even a blip to them.
They will have to pay compensation to any players coming from an academy that's not theirs, American or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is[b] and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

First, thanks for these details! NP to this thread. Not sure whether you are the same poster who provided the FIFA rules and breakdown in the DCU thread but it helped me understand how current American families are currently overseas without dual citizenship and I appreciate it. Three questions as our plan is to get overseas:

1) How early are we talking in terms of making the move?

2) My kid has remained competitive internationally over the years but I hear there is a separation period around 14-16. What is happening overseas that we can’t try to replicate here? I know many people jump to 11v11 too quickly and start focusing on tactics and endurance versus technique but we have managed to stay away from those environments.

3) Have any parents chosen to pay an MLS academy the training costs to retain their players rights? I am in the fortunate position that I afford the training. My biggest fear is the profit motives of a MLS club jamming up my kids opportunity with these development fees as described.

Any insight is appreciated.

Yes I am the same poster who posted all the info about FIFA transfer rules in the DCU thread as well.

You're asking all the right questions. Here is my breakdown for each one:

1. How early?: My view is that it depends on how likely it is for your son to separate himself from his peers on the target team. Much easier to do this at u9-u13. It' gets harder after that because puberty is kicking in and the competition becomes stiffer. Plus, at those early years, the US is actually on par or in some instances better at individual development than some of the clubs overseas especially when it comes to creativity and bravery on the ball. But the players overseas often times have better core fundamentals. To stand out you need both. I would say target years are u9-u13 or u14. If after those years you need a special player and special circumstances at the target club to break through (ie maybe they are struggling at that age group, maybe they don't have depth at at the position your son plays etc). Also, consider the playing philosophy of the club. This is often overlooked for the name brand only. If your son isn't not aggressive defensively and you go to a club where intense pressing is part of their DNA then he will struggle. .Conversely, if your player is creative and likes the ball at his feet, think about systems that value high percentages of possession and off the ball movement.

2. Why Europe separates at u14-u16. This is an important issue. The main reason from my point of view is that US kids focus a lot on balls skills with low pressure and low intensity and skills that are low value and low probability in intense games. The result of this is that you'll have a player that can do decently on the ball but they can't really do anything else that well. And considering a player has the ball substantially less than they are off the ball, this is a glaring hole in the way the US develops players. These are the ages where poor fundamentals, lack of game understanding and lack of defensive understanding really get exposed. Europe replicates game scenarios at extremely high intensity at rapid intervals. This creates muscle memory and quicker recognition of the scenarios and the actions that the scenarios require and the technical skills that is needed from the player to execute. In the US we need more training systems that focus on ALL OUT intensity at all times and pressure, constant pressure. When US kids come to Europe the first thing that stands out is that they say the speed of play is faster. If they came and the speed of play was the same as they have always been training they would be at an advantage not a disadvantage to start. Stop doing so many cone drills and focus on game speed reps at skills your position demands. And always focus on first touch under intense pressure. Players stand out for making messy play organized again with their calm and touch making a bad ball a good one. Jumping to 11v11 too early and playing up is an ego thing in the US. U14s in Europe are still mostly playing 9v9 because the speed of thought and tough rate is just higher. Don't speed into 11v11. Your kid will have his whole life to play 11v11 but only 4 years to play 9v9. Use those years wisely and focus on the fundamentals. The skills needed at 11v11 are very different than 9v9 and the premium on passing accuracy and covering ground becomes higher. Again something we don't stress in the US. Lastly, a lot of players fail at these ages because they or their parents think they can only play one position. You are most valuable as a player the more positions you can play. Period. If you go to an academy and they have three strikers already and you're a striker they will ask, can you play any place else and if your answer is no, not good. At these ages the European kids have been playing everywhere and their game intelligence shows this. Play more positions at youth ages to garner a better understanding of the game.

3. Paying the training comp out of pocket. It is something that I have seen people try for sure and it really does depend on the club, their front office and how they do business. It's too hard to say yea or nea on this because every club is different. But it is absolutely something I would ask ALL clubs before you enter and get their response IN WRITING saying they relinquish their rights to training comp. Most won't do it because it just isn't in their best interest. But you never know, some might. It's still relatively early days of training comp in the MLS so anything is possible. But again, low probability.

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Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others

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Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You have inside information on the conversations and decision making of Manchester City and the Sullivan family?

Does him being Under 16 at the time of the original deal have something to do with the timing of his move to City?

Man City is flush with money. Giving Philly Union some chump change is not even a blip to them.
They will have to pay compensation to any players coming from an academy that's not theirs, American or not.

I don't need inside information. It's public and obvious.

no, the fact that he was under 16 doesn't matter, if the player is good enough, they find a way. Sullivan has a EU passport as well which makes it even easier. Sullivan will be 16 this month and if it mattered.thst he was under 16 at signing (with Philly btw not city) he would.be going to city then, which he clearly is not.

What is your point about Philly Union? I'm not talking about the money. I'm talking about the fact that they, city, took a wait and see approach as opposed to bringing him in right away which was not happening a decade ago under different USSF rules. Your chump change argument just supports my argument. If it is chump change why not just sign him straight up.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others

That's right. No other better 17 or 18 year old was available FOR FREE. Schalke would.have to pay for them. Same.for Pulisic. Why not take these guys then? They cost the club absolutely nothing and have tremendous upside potential. The German players cost them something at 18 yrs and on that alone the upside is not as high. You nare vastly underestimating the value of a completely free transfer in global football. With no fees attached whatsoever. It is like.gold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You have inside information on the conversations and decision making of Manchester City and the Sullivan family?

Does him being Under 16 at the time of the original deal have something to do with the timing of his move to City?

Man City is flush with money. Giving Philly Union some chump change is not even a blip to them.
They will have to pay compensation to any players coming from an academy that's not theirs, American or not.

I don't need inside information. It's public and obvious.

no, the fact that he was under 16 doesn't matter, if the player is good enough, they find a way. Sullivan has a EU passport as well which makes it even easier. Sullivan will be 16 this month and if it mattered.thst he was under 16 at signing (with Philly btw not city) he would.be going to city then, which he clearly is not.

What is your point about Philly Union? I'm not talking about the money. I'm talking about the fact that they, city, took a wait and see approach as opposed to bringing him in right away which was not happening a decade ago under different USSF rules. Your chump change argument just supports my argument. If it is chump change why not just sign him straight up.

I'll go out on a very thick limb to say neither of us knows the details and nuances behind the Sullivan to Man City negotiations.

Some things seems obvious on the surface to outsiders but are clearly being interpreted with subconscious bias

As for wait and see, he's only 15
Its not a crazy approach if thats the case

Aren't their legal and contractual UEFA and FIFA and FA rules for 16 and 18 years old?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others

That's right. No other better 17 or 18 year old was available FOR FREE. Schalke would.have to pay for them. Same.for Pulisic. Why not take these guys then? They cost the club absolutely nothing and have tremendous upside potential. The German players cost them something at 18 yrs and on that alone the upside is not as high. You nare vastly underestimating the value of a completely free transfer in global football. With no fees attached whatsoever. It is like.gold.

Be serious man

All the available players from Africa, South America, Europe and Asia at 17+ and they chose the US boys just because they're free transfer?
These fees are negotiated and paid every day by these clubs. Cost of doing business.

Free is nice but not a showstopper for the right fit talent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You have inside information on the conversations and decision making of Manchester City and the Sullivan family?

Does him being Under 16 at the time of the original deal have something to do with the timing of his move to City?

Man City is flush with money. Giving Philly Union some chump change is not even a blip to them.
They will have to pay compensation to any players coming from an academy that's not theirs, American or not.

I don't need inside information. It's public and obvious.

no, the fact that he was under 16 doesn't matter, if the player is good enough, they find a way. Sullivan has a EU passport as well which makes it even easier. Sullivan will be 16 this month and if it mattered.thst he was under 16 at signing (with Philly btw not city) he would.be going to city then, which he clearly is not.

What is your point about Philly Union? I'm not talking about the money. I'm talking about the fact that they, city, took a wait and see approach as opposed to bringing him in right away which was not happening a decade ago under different USSF rules. Your chump change argument just supports my argument. If it is chump change why not just sign him straight up.

How do you explain all the American kids with dual citizenship currently at top European academies?
Why couldn't Sullivan just go like they did?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others

That's right. No other better 17 or 18 year old was available FOR FREE. Schalke would.have to pay for them. Same.for Pulisic. Why not take these guys then? They cost the club absolutely nothing and have tremendous upside potential. The German players cost them something at 18 yrs and on that alone the upside is not as high. You nare vastly underestimating the value of a completely free transfer in global football. With no fees attached whatsoever. It is like.gold.

Be serious man

All the available players from Africa, South America, Europe and Asia at 17+ and they chose the US boys just because they're free transfer?
These fees are negotiated and paid every day by these clubs. Cost of doing business.

Free is nice but not a showstopper for the right fit talent

I am a parent learning this system and some of you are blocking a quality conversation because you are not in the mix. When we trained in Germany, there were alot of Africans in the academy systems. Youtube Laliga FC futures and watch Espanol vs. Real Madrid a few months ago. Do you really think there are that many germans and spaniards of African descent magically living Wolfsburg and Barcelona? These clubs will look for the cheapest routes to acquire talent and the US is no longer one as US Soccer and the MLS matures and develops. Those opportunities are now going to the African's if that African is free and your MLS academy player has a fee (assuming the two players are equivalent). If you think these clubs have not mastered the art of working through the FIFA rules then you don't believe Steve Balmer paid Leonard $28m through a shell company to circumvent the NBA salary cap which is soooooo obvious and I have flying car to sell you.

Why do you think these new FIFA rules came about? This is a hard core business not too different than child trafficking if you don't have guardrails up. Clubs have been pumping and dumping kids for years, especially those coming from 3rd world countries. That is the beauty of our US system at times because at least you get a college degree for your talent. The soccer world is different and we need to drop our egos and learn the system so we can help our kids.

These clubs don't like paying $169m (Isak transfer fee in $) for a player when you can have a development pipeline for 1/10 of the cost.

5% of $169m = $8,450,000 to the clubs who invested in Isak as a youth (idk for sure, just generally speaking). That is a lot of money for an MLS franchise and the MLS franchises now understand that. MLS academies are not free. You are an asset to them with a value. They control you. This conversation is about allowing us parents to control the future of our kids. I can choose to give up control to DCU or any other academy if I deem the value of the training is higher than I can pay for separately or I can choose to pay to train my kid and stay clear of giving up that control until I get to the right academy. Make no mistake. We will give up control at some point. The terms "buy" and "sell" a player are used for a reason. Stop nitpicking details, appreciate the conversation and learn the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others

That's right. No other better 17 or 18 year old was available FOR FREE. Schalke would.have to pay for them. Same.for Pulisic. Why not take these guys then? They cost the club absolutely nothing and have tremendous upside potential. The German players cost them something at 18 yrs and on that alone the upside is not as high. You nare vastly underestimating the value of a completely free transfer in global football. With no fees attached whatsoever. It is like.gold.

Be serious man

All the available players from Africa, South America, Europe and Asia at 17+ and they chose the US boys just because they're free transfer?
These fees are negotiated and paid every day by these clubs. Cost of doing business.

Free is nice but not a showstopper for the right fit talent

I am a parent learning this system and some of you are blocking a quality conversation because you are not in the mix. When we trained in Germany, there were alot of Africans in the academy systems. Youtube Laliga FC futures and watch Espanol vs. Real Madrid a few months ago. Do you really think there are that many germans and spaniards of African descent magically living Wolfsburg and Barcelona? These clubs will look for the cheapest routes to acquire talent and the US is no longer one as US Soccer and the MLS matures and develops. Those opportunities are now going to the African's if that African is free and your MLS academy player has a fee (assuming the two players are equivalent). If you think these clubs have not mastered the art of working through the FIFA rules then you don't believe Steve Balmer paid Leonard $28m through a shell company to circumvent the NBA salary cap which is soooooo obvious and I have flying car to sell you.

Why do you think these new FIFA rules came about? This is a hard core business not too different than child trafficking if you don't have guardrails up. Clubs have been pumping and dumping kids for years, especially those coming from 3rd world countries. That is the beauty of our US system at times because at least you get a college degree for your talent. The soccer world is different and we need to drop our egos and learn the system so we can help our kids.

These clubs don't like paying $169m (Isak transfer fee in $) for a player when you can have a development pipeline for 1/10 of the cost.

5% of $169m = $8,450,000 to the clubs who invested in Isak as a youth (idk for sure, just generally speaking). That is a lot of money for an MLS franchise and the MLS franchises now understand that. MLS academies are not free. You are an asset to them with a value. They control you. This conversation is about allowing us parents to control the future of our kids. I can choose to give up control to DCU or any other academy if I deem the value of the training is higher than I can pay for separately or I can choose to pay to train my kid and stay clear of giving up that control until I get to the right academy. Make no mistake. We will give up control at some point. The terms "buy" and "sell" a player are used for a reason. Stop nitpicking details, appreciate the conversation and learn the system.

There are kids of African decent who hold European passports in the academy system pre 18 years old.
That's not the conversation

Kids after 16 go to Cat 1 academies in England from other European countries and the originating academy is compensated based on how long they developed the kid.
They also compensate kids coming from Cat 2 and Cat 3 academies or Grass Roots to Chelsea for example. Regularly and consistently.

If a player is the right prospect and free, they'll also take him.

I love your ego in assuming you are the one and only knowledgeable one, on an anonymous forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the DC United Regional Development School worth it for top players or a huge money grab? And why would a girl do it? Thoughts?

https://www.dcunited.com/youth/rds

One of my kids participated in the DCU RDS back in 2017/18 when it was still running. We found it to be worthwhile supplemental training; I was bummed when they subsequently cancelled it. Glad to see it's coming back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others

That's right. No other better 17 or 18 year old was available FOR FREE. Schalke would.have to pay for them. Same.for Pulisic. Why not take these guys then? They cost the club absolutely nothing and have tremendous upside potential. The German players cost them something at 18 yrs and on that alone the upside is not as high. You nare vastly underestimating the value of a completely free transfer in global football. With no fees attached whatsoever. It is like.gold.

Be serious man

All the available players from Africa, South America, Europe and Asia at 17+ and they chose the US boys just because they're free transfer?
These fees are negotiated and paid every day by these clubs. Cost of doing business.

Free is nice but not a showstopper for the right fit talent

This is where you don't understand the system...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others

That's right. No other better 17 or 18 year old was available FOR FREE. Schalke would.have to pay for them. Same.for Pulisic. Why not take these guys then? They cost the club absolutely nothing and have tremendous upside potential. The German players cost them something at 18 yrs and on that alone the upside is not as high. You nare vastly underestimating the value of a completely free transfer in global football. With no fees attached whatsoever. It is like.gold.

Be serious man

All the available players from Africa, South America, Europe and Asia at 17+ and they chose the US boys just because they're free transfer?
These fees are negotiated and paid every day by these clubs. Cost of doing business.

Free is nice but not a showstopper for the right fit talent

I am a parent learning this system and some of you are blocking a quality conversation because you are not in the mix. When we trained in Germany, there were alot of Africans in the academy systems. Youtube Laliga FC futures and watch Espanol vs. Real Madrid a few months ago. Do you really think there are that many germans and spaniards of African descent magically living Wolfsburg and Barcelona? These clubs will look for the cheapest routes to acquire talent and the US is no longer one as US Soccer and the MLS matures and develops. Those opportunities are now going to the African's if that African is free and your MLS academy player has a fee (assuming the two players are equivalent). If you think these clubs have not mastered the art of working through the FIFA rules then you don't believe Steve Balmer paid Leonard $28m through a shell company to circumvent the NBA salary cap which is soooooo obvious and I have flying car to sell you.

Why do you think these new FIFA rules came about? This is a hard core business not too different than child trafficking if you don't have guardrails up. Clubs have been pumping and dumping kids for years, especially those coming from 3rd world countries. That is the beauty of our US system at times because at least you get a college degree for your talent. The soccer world is different and we need to drop our egos and learn the system so we can help our kids.

These clubs don't like paying $169m (Isak transfer fee in $) for a player when you can have a development pipeline for 1/10 of the cost.

5% of $169m = $8,450,000 to the clubs who invested in Isak as a youth (idk for sure, just generally speaking). That is a lot of money for an MLS franchise and the MLS franchises now understand that. MLS academies are not free. You are an asset to them with a value. They control you. This conversation is about allowing us parents to control the future of our kids. I can choose to give up control to DCU or any other academy if I deem the value of the training is higher than I can pay for separately or I can choose to pay to train my kid and stay clear of giving up that control until I get to the right academy. Make no mistake. We will give up control at some point. The terms "buy" and "sell" a player are used for a reason. Stop nitpicking details, appreciate the conversation and learn the system.

Finally someone else that gets it...

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Anonymous wrote:Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system. If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty. They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents. Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA? Who is coaching? What is the benefit of the training? Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery. As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop? Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air? That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99. Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET. Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything. This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant. They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it. Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395. 🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old

Nice try. Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric. There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states. The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM. There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs. And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents. Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1. Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy. You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence. Yeah, I’ll pass.

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?

.

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events. Your coach won't reach out for your player. We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

Yes at showcases and tournaments. The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones. Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15. I know others had been scouted at u14.

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question. But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player). Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed. There isn't a transfer fee. But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him. This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club. That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club. So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union. DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them. So, he is stuck. And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants. Sounds crazy but this is what happens. The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories. Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club. I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement. I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants. It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only. Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks!

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that. The PP asked a legit question and I answered it. But it isn't hard to find the answers you want. My last post basically gives it to you.

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice.

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes. A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure. Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club. Probably not. If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp. Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player. Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed. VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player. Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees. Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23. So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different. Will be due in two scenarios. When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached. If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement. Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested. In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent. Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him. But a massive gamble. And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible. The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US. Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors. If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules. There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily. Simple. The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers. To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened. They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players. And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan. Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention. 10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others

That's right. No other better 17 or 18 year old was available FOR FREE. Schalke would.have to pay for them. Same.for Pulisic. Why not take these guys then? They cost the club absolutely nothing and have tremendous upside potential. The German players cost them something at 18 yrs and on that alone the upside is not as high. You nare vastly underestimating the value of a completely free transfer in global football. With no fees attached whatsoever. It is like.gold.

Be serious man

All the available players from Africa, South America, Europe and Asia at 17+ and they chose the US boys just because they're free transfer?
These fees are negotiated and paid every day by these clubs. Cost of doing business.

Free is nice but not a showstopper for the right fit talent

I am a parent learning this system and some of you are blocking a quality conversation because you are not in the mix. When we trained in Germany, there were alot of Africans in the academy systems. Youtube Laliga FC futures and watch Espanol vs. Real Madrid a few months ago. Do you really think there are that many germans and spaniards of African descent magically living Wolfsburg and Barcelona? These clubs will look for the cheapest routes to acquire talent and the US is no longer one as US Soccer and the MLS matures and develops. Those opportunities are now going to the African's if that African is free and your MLS academy player has a fee (assuming the two players are equivalent). If you think these clubs have not mastered the art of working through the FIFA rules then you don't believe Steve Balmer paid Leonard $28m through a shell company to circumvent the NBA salary cap which is soooooo obvious and I have flying car to sell you.

Why do you think these new FIFA rules came about? This is a hard core business not too different than child trafficking if you don't have guardrails up. Clubs have been pumping and dumping kids for years, especially those coming from 3rd world countries. That is the beauty of our US system at times because at least you get a college degree for your talent. The soccer world is different and we need to drop our egos and learn the system so we can help our kids.

These clubs don't like paying $169m (Isak transfer fee in $) for a player when you can have a development pipeline for 1/10 of the cost.

5% of $169m = $8,450,000 to the clubs who invested in Isak as a youth (idk for sure, just generally speaking). That is a lot of money for an MLS franchise and the MLS franchises now understand that. MLS academies are not free. You are an asset to them with a value. They control you. This conversation is about allowing us parents to control the future of our kids. I can choose to give up control to DCU or any other academy if I deem the value of the training is higher than I can pay for separately or I can choose to pay to train my kid and stay clear of giving up that control until I get to the right academy. Make no mistake. We will give up control at some point. The terms "buy" and "sell" a player are used for a reason. Stop nitpicking details, appreciate the conversation and learn the system.

There are kids of African decent who hold European passports in the academy system pre 18 years old.
That's not the conversation

Kids after 16 go to Cat 1 academies in England from other European countries and the originating academy is compensated based on how long they developed the kid.
They also compensate kids coming from Cat 2 and Cat 3 academies or Grass Roots to Chelsea for example. Regularly and consistently.

If a player is the right prospect and free, they'll also take him.

I love your ego in assuming you are the one and only knowledgeable one, on an anonymous forum.

What is your point???