Just figured I'd share because it might benefit lots of folks here...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

But also, pretty sure everyone here knows the EIC the yearbook who is also on cheer and also class Pres turns no heads. That was two generations ago.

Actually, not true for our private and my DD, who applied to women's studies. We don't have AP classes, but kid was in regular/honors chem and not advanced. Got into 1 T10 (WL at another - and got called off WL in early May), and 3 other T20/25.....
Maybe because it's a private school? Who knows.

Just don't think you can make these blanket statements for all high schools in America.

Private HS have their own rules, though. And colleges know that. Some are known to be massive humanities feeders.
Let me guess? Saint Ann's in NY?
https://saintannsny.org/divisions-and-offices/college-office/class-college-admission/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. Any college admissions officer would say that the kid who stands out at elite colleges is the one who took AP Chem while at the same time taking doing the independent music thing.

This actually isn't true. In most cases, the kid who stands out is the one with a unique story. Right now, a lot of kids have the same (overachieving, overtaxed) story.

but hasn't this been true for 10 years now? this is what they call the spike. this is why kids start fake NFPs or write AI-generated self published books on amazon. makes them sound deep into a passion! and colleges were falling for the NFPs for a while - and the books now.

Yes, but the point (I think) is, don't actually do all the other STEM AP stuff if you are deep into colonial women's history. Do the minimal amount of necessary and then do buckets and buckets of extra on the colonial history front? So yes its a spike, but showing initiative to double up on history electives could help and you don't need AP physics...Honors might be enough?

There's a guy on FB (private counselor) who has a whole thing that goes through why this is a better strategy and shows "passion" and drive. And helps not make you look like a bot.

There is no AO that gives a shit about passion projects. We don't even use that term in the admissions office. This passion project idea is just born out of the college consulting industry, with consultants who are trying to sell that this is a golden ticket. And it's smart, I suppose, because they take advantage of an incredibly opaque process with students that don't know any better. But when I was reading files, when I was in committees, I can assure you, most students did not have a passion project, and if a student did, barely any mention of it came up in the discussion of the student's admissibility.

The college consulting industry is pushing that because ...
The rigor, the gpa, the test score are determined by the kids themselves. There is nothing much consultants can do to enhance that profile, other than recommedning private tutors. And rigor, gpa, test score are the most important part of the application.
That leave the consultants' value in doubt. For kids that are weak in stats, they have to do something to have the appearance that they are adding value (same for high stats kids). Passion project, intersection woodoo, expensive packages of summer programs, these are things they try to sell.

What is ... an intersection woodoo?

An admissions narrative focused on the intersection of two seemingly unrelated academic fields.
Learned about it here. This was a good thread I've bookmarked. Helpful if you have a rising senior, imo.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1260246.page#29550730

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

But also, pretty sure everyone here knows the EIC the yearbook who is also on cheer and also class Pres turns no heads. That was two generations ago.

Actually, not true for our private and my DD, who applied to women's studies. We don't have AP classes, but kid was in regular/honors chem and not advanced. Got into 1 T10 (WL at another - and got called off WL in early May), and 3 other T20/25.....
Maybe because it's a private school? Who knows.

Just don't think you can make these blanket statements for all high schools in America.

Private HS have their own rules, though. And colleges know that. Some are known to be massive humanities feeders.
Let me guess? Saint Ann's in NY?
https://saintannsny.org/divisions-and-offices/college-office/class-college-admission/

Whoa. Crazy placements

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. Any college admissions officer would say that the kid who stands out at elite colleges is the one who took AP Chem while at the same time taking doing the independent music thing.

This actually isn't true. In most cases, the kid who stands out is the one with a unique story. Right now, a lot of kids have the same (overachieving, overtaxed) story.

but hasn't this been true for 10 years now? this is what they call the spike. this is why kids start fake NFPs or write AI-generated self published books on amazon. makes them sound deep into a passion! and colleges were falling for the NFPs for a while - and the books now.

Yes, but the point (I think) is, don't actually do all the other STEM AP stuff if you are deep into colonial women's history. Do the minimal amount of necessary and then do buckets and buckets of extra on the colonial history front? So yes its a spike, but showing initiative to double up on history electives could help and you don't need AP physics...Honors might be enough?

There's a guy on FB (private counselor) who has a whole thing that goes through why this is a better strategy and shows "passion" and drive. And helps not make you look like a bot.

Don't know if this is actually true? Or at least not across the board. A former T10 AO (from another thread here) on Reddit said the below this week:

"She seems to think that prioritizing rigor is aligned mostly with major interests, at least in the videos I've seen.

That's not right. [b]We value rigor across the board, no matter major preferences. Our pools are so competitive that I've gotten accustomed, as have other AOs, to seeing the most rigorous curriculum in all subjects. A humanities kid still challenging themselves with calculus or above. A STEM kid taking AP Lit.[/b]

[i]There is no AO that gives a shit about passion projects. We don't even use that term in the admissions office.

…
Rigor is very important. In our school, 4.0 uw no rigor goes to state flagship. 3.8 uw high rigor has a shot at T5. 3.7 uw high rigor has a shot at T10.

Rigor, GPA, Test score, in that order.

Yes yes and yes! Agree! Our private school has former AOs from T15 and they were saying this when our first applied in 2021. This is not new at all! Both into different ivies unhooked and the few each year from their high school all had top rigor first and foremost, yet also had top scores and were held in high regard by teachers. ECs that are impactful round out the application and can help in the final decision but challenging oneself in all areas and not being a jerk is what gets you past the first couple of reads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

Yes. With all majors open to all admitted students, humanities kids need to have evidence they can be reasonably successful as a stem major if they chose it after they arrived. Top10 deans have gone on record and stated this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

That's one school and one person. I don't think you "skimp" on them. Of course they matter. But if you want to stand out, show demonstrated commitment to your area of focus with the willingness and courage (and it is courage) to be decisive about where you spend your time.

Right. And you can do that and still take the toughest course load possible. THAT'S how you stand out.

If you want the top, yes you need to do it all and do it well. Less is needed for T20-30 range including top publics.
If you cant do it all and also stay sane, sleep 7-8 hrs+, and ace the classes then in fairness you are not cut out for ivy/t10. They almost all are like that there. It is an amazing experience for those who feed off that type of peer: mine does. Beyond amazing. A small minority do not do well. Parents page every october has burnt out kid struggling big time. Most, per the parent description, seem to be lacking internal motivation and drive, used to being successful when pushed by parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

Yes. With all majors open to all admitted students, humanities kids need to have evidence they can be reasonably successful as a stem major if they chose it after they arrived. Top10 deans have gone on record and stated this.

So, how do we explain kids who get into T10 without the most rigor offered at their schools? Are they all hooked? Have something special (institutional priority)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

But also, pretty sure everyone here knows the EIC the yearbook who is also on cheer and also class Pres turns no heads. That was two generations ago.

Actually, not true for our private and my DD, who applied to women's studies. We don't have AP classes, but kid was in regular/honors chem and not advanced. Got into 1 T10 (WL at another - and got called off WL in early May), and 3 other T20/25.....
Maybe because it's a private school? Who knows.

Just don't think you can make these blanket statements for all high schools in America.

Private HS have their own rules, though. And colleges know that. Some are known to be massive humanities feeders.
Let me guess? Saint Ann's in NY?
https://saintannsny.org/divisions-and-offices/college-office/class-college-admission/

Is this the whole class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

Yes. With all majors open to all admitted students, humanities kids need to have evidence they can be reasonably successful as a stem major if they chose it after they arrived. Top10 deans have gone on record and stated this.

So, how do we explain kids who get into T10 without the most rigor offered at their schools? Are they all hooked? Have something special (institutional priority)?

Private school, hooks or something special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

But also, pretty sure everyone here knows the EIC the yearbook who is also on cheer and also class Pres turns no heads. That was two generations ago.

Actually, not true for our private and my DD, who applied to women's studies. We don't have AP classes, but kid was in regular/honors chem and not advanced. Got into 1 T10 (WL at another - and got called off WL in early May), and 3 other T20/25.....
Maybe because it's a private school? Who knows.

Just don't think you can make these blanket statements for all high schools in America.

Private HS have their own rules, though. And colleges know that. Some are known to be massive humanities feeders.
Let me guess? Saint Ann's in NY?
https://saintannsny.org/divisions-and-offices/college-office/class-college-admission/

Is this the whole class?

That's the school that doesn't give grades. Novel concept and look at the placement outcomes.
https://saintannsny.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SchoolProfile24-25.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

But also, pretty sure everyone here knows the EIC the yearbook who is also on cheer and also class Pres turns no heads. That was two generations ago.

Actually, not true for our private and my DD, who applied to women's studies. We don't have AP classes, but kid was in regular/honors chem and not advanced. Got into 1 T10 (WL at another - and got called off WL in early May), and 3 other T20/25.....
Maybe because it's a private school? Who knows.

Just don't think you can make these blanket statements for all high schools in America.

Private HS have their own rules, though. And colleges know that. Some are known to be massive humanities feeders.
Let me guess? Saint Ann's in NY?
https://saintannsny.org/divisions-and-offices/college-office/class-college-admission/

Is this the whole class?

That's the school that doesn't give grades. Novel concept and look at the placement outcomes.
https://saintannsny.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SchoolProfile24-25.pdf

Not to get off topic, this is a primary example of why generic advice on this site is meaningless if not customized to your school.
For example, at St. Ann's you don't need to even be in the top 25% of your class to get into an Ivy (I think that's true at many of the nation's most selective private high schools).

I plugged those 2 links into AI, to have it examine the rigor of a HS without ANY grades and college placements (super fun exercise that you should do with your own schools!):

- 29.1% of the class (25 out of 86 students) got into Ivy League schools: Why is it significant? (If only the top 25% could get into Ivies, that would be a maximum of 21-22 students. But Saint Ann's sent 25 students to Ivies, meaning some students outside the top quartile clearly gained admission.)

Why This Happens at Elite Schools Like Saint Ann's:
- Holistic Admissions: Top colleges don't just look at class rank - they consider the full profile including essays, recommendations, extracurriculars, and "fit"
- School Reputation: Saint Ann's is known to admissions officers as academically rigorous. A student in the bottom half at Saint Ann's might be better prepared than a valedictorian from a less competitive school.
- No Grades/Rankings: Saint Ann's uses narrative evaluations instead of grades, so there's no traditional class rank anyway. This likely helps students avoid being pigeonholed by their academic standing.
- Diverse Talents: With Saint Ann's strong arts focus, students might get into Ivies based on exceptional creative abilities even if they're not the strongest academically.
- Context Matters: A "middle of the pack" student at Saint Ann's still received an incredibly rigorous education and strong college counseling.

The Reality: At truly elite high schools like Saint Ann's, Dalton, or Exeter, the entire class is so strong that even students in the bottom half can be competitive for top colleges. The school's reputation and preparation matter more than internal ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only effective advice she gave you was that there are so many high stat applicants and so many applicants per school that it seems like picking rabbits from a hat. For the majority of applicants, the essay is like a bell curve. For a small percentage it will knock them out of the pool or put them above their rating but for the majority it is still neutral. The same is true for for letter of recommendation.

What’s happening now with so many applicants and yield being tied to rankings which impacts bond ratings, schools are using technology to sift through grabbing demographic data to pick people based on factors your kid can’t control. Your zip code, how kids with a similar set of key word hits performed in the previous cycle, your financial status, yes your race, your parents education, your parents profession, your extracurriculars, etc etc.

Your high stats, hitting the threshold for ECs, and essays that don’t knock you out , get you put into a cohort of qualified candidates. This is a very, very large bucket. The next buckets are subsets with targeted qualities that your kid doesn’t control..low income, first generation, ethnicity, legacy, rural, veteran etc.

It certainly doesn't work that way. They are evaluating kids in the context of the high school. Your school sends 10 kids to Penn each year, they are selecting these 10 from about 50 applicants in your school. They don't put the 50 applicants into a "very very large bucket". No, that's not what happens.

It’s very old advice that you are competing just against the other kids in your school. Back in the old days when there was just a boost for recruited athletes, legacy and AA that was true but it’s different now. Now you have first generation, low income, Hispanic, veteran, trauma stories, rural in addition to recruited athletes, legacy and AA. Financial status and yield are even more important. Over concentrated majors are another problem as well as gender imbalance within majors. This why so many high school counselors are saying it’s a crapshoot now. It used to be far more predictable who would get in where but that’s gone.

[Anonymous]

I worked in T10 law school admissions for many years. It still amazes me how much emphasis undergraduate admissions supposedly places on essays. We practically ignored the essays knowing that literally anyone could have written it. That is only more true now thanks to AI.

[Anonymous]

Your high school matters more than ANYTHING else. Don't let people tell you otherwise.

Ex. TJ can sink at T10 application. While St. Ann's can clearly make it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10 schools are their own thing. You need to kill AP chem even if you want to be in women’s studies. Partly bcs they don’t believe you won’t switch after you get in.

And then you need strength in your area.

After t20, sure, I think Op is right.

But also, pretty sure everyone here knows the EIC the yearbook who is also on cheer and also class Pres turns no heads. That was two generations ago.

Actually, not true for our private and my DD, who applied to women's studies. We don't have AP classes, but kid was in regular/honors chem and not advanced. Got into 1 T10 (WL at another - and got called off WL in early May), and 3 other T20/25.....
Maybe because it's a private school? Who knows.

Just don't think you can make these blanket statements for all high schools in America.

Private HS have their own rules, though. And colleges know that. Some are known to be massive humanities feeders.
Let me guess? Saint Ann's in NY?
https://saintannsny.org/divisions-and-offices/college-office/class-college-admission/

Kind of obsessed here. These results are truly mind-blowing to be honest.
Think I calculated this right:

T10 Universities: 26 students (30.2%)
T25 Universities: 48 students (55.8%)
T10 SLACs: 18 students (20.9%)
Combined T10 Universities + SLACs: 44 students (51.2%)
Ivy League: 25 students (29.1%)