Do you know how much is in the family trust?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Is that weird that my parents have me pay the annual fee for a trust that’s unclear if it’s funded? I have 3+ kids (only sibling with children) and it’s kind of a pain to write this check every year. I’m like putting my own questionable inheritance on layaway

I am the family coordinator for about the ten trusts in my extended family and a layer, though not a trust and estate lawyer, and I have no idea what you are talking about.

That’s fair. I’m confused myself. Do the extended family members pay an annual fee into their respective trusts that they are beneficiaries of?

Np. I’m a trustee on a trust and I’m also confused. I get a set amount each year to be the administrator and that is paid by the trust, from the trusts bank account. No, the beneficiaries don’t pay.

Also, I’m required to provide an annual accounting to the beneficiaries detailing beginning/ending balances of investments and any expenses.

I truly have no idea what you are paying.

Yep. this is standard. As a beneficiary you have the right to ask for a yearly accounting. They might have funded a minimal amount to have it ready to go. And you should have a copy of the actual trust and actually read it. I’ve never heard of a beneficiary paying yearly administrative expenses.

Stop paying it without getting your questions answered. Who do you make the check to?

PP here writing the annual fee to the trust company. My dad owns a business and set up a series of trusts. He said one day some big deal would fully find it and pay $1MM into the trust, which today sits at $0 according to the annual statement I receive. I receive an invoice from the trustee firm each summer showing I owe $600 for the management fee. So far I’ve paid $6,000. I’m so confused.

I think your dad may be scamming you. I’m sorry. My dad and uncle scammed me when I was 16, after I’d been working for a few years. The greatest lesson was that I learned all about finances and investing in HS because I didn’t want to end up like that again.

My dad died with a trust that only had his house in it, and maybe a few assets. But, it was poorly written, since my dad was terrible with $$, obvs. He also married a scammer.

We set up a family trust that feeds into trusts we set up for the kids. They’re in college, and while we had a family meeting with our lawyer, we didn’t disclose the amounts. We will later, but it will be $5-10M each.

Nice humble brag. But 5-10 million is such a big range that I smell bullshit.

Different poster here but it's not bullshit. We are 100% in stocks and obviously cannot tell our kids what they're going to inherit - it depends on stock market fluctuations. Right now there's ~15M in the portfolio and I'm in my 40s. Unless there's a major financial catastrophe or I die very soon... they might inherit much more, individually, than what's currently in there, just through market gains. 25 years ago this portfolio was worth very little! The market has been incredible for high tech in recent decades and I don't see it slow down any time soon. We have explained this to our children, and so they know that they cannot rely on a specific sum. They still need to attend college, start a career, work steadily and invest their own money. And then they'll see.

So perhaps all the old people with trusts aren't divulging what's in it because by the time their adult kids inherit it might change. I think they should still be transparent about current sums, but the older generation has perhaps more taboos surrounding money than mine.

I think it’s really odd and a big mistake for you to tell your young kids that you have that kind of money. It’s sad, really. You honestly think you can just “explain” the market to kids that young and that knowing they have that much money isn’t going to affect them and how they view their peers etc? It’s just so completely unnecessary and potentially counterproductive. We had plenty of money when our kids were younger and never dreamed of sharing it with them. What exactly is to be gained?

[Anonymous]

Why don’t you tell them you are planning to set up trust for your kids and want their advice? That may open up the discussion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yea, I pay $600 annually to the trust administrator. I think there is $0 in it. I think I’ve paid $6,000 since 2014 in this annual fee. It’s weird. I should talk to my dad about whether there will actually ever be money in it.

This is the oddest thing I have heard about a trust. Are you sure you are not being swindled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you just need to assume the amount you will get is zero.

It's possible they will spend it all on end of life care.

Yes, I do know what is in my parents' estate and trusts, but that is because they were sliding towards dementia and I am a lawyer and saw the writing on the wall and got involved and made sure all the paperwork was right.

if they are mentally competent and have done their estate planning, just ask who their lawyer is and where they keep their will.

I am not a lawyer but one parent died of dementia and the other started in that direction. I had them do their first will and then had my remaining parent update the documents after the first one died. The new documents included a trust and, thankfully, put me in charge because my disordered sibling with little executive function would get nothing done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People on this board are so paranoid about nursing home care. Yes it can cost $100-$120k a year, but you have no other expenses once the old person is in there. You sell the family home and cars. The old person is not taking vacations or going out to eat. The home even pays for the adult diapers. At most there is like $500 a year needed to buy some toothpaste, new socks, and a couple cheap haircuts. A normal retirement savings of a few million that throws off $80-100k a year, social security, and the proceeds from the house sale will easily cover 2-3 years of nursing home care (people don’t last longer than that once they get there- it is depressing as f@ck and they die off). Calm down about nursing home care, and continue to contribute to your 401k, and you will be fine.

To the OP - there is probably a decent nest egg in that trust, and your parents should be proud to tell you the value. They saved like they should, and not like the whiners on this board.

This is true. My parent's financial advisor says parent will have a lot left. Given the advanced age and amount of money, there will still be a lot left at the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this board are so paranoid about nursing home care. Yes it can cost $100-$120k a year, but you have no other expenses once the old person is in there. You sell the family home and cars. The old person is not taking vacations or going out to eat. The home even pays for the adult diapers. At most there is like $500 a year needed to buy some toothpaste, new socks, and a couple cheap haircuts. A normal retirement savings of a few million that throws off $80-100k a year, social security, and the proceeds from the house sale will easily cover 2-3 years of nursing home care (people don’t last longer than that once they get there- it is depressing as f@ck and they die off). Calm down about nursing home care, and continue to contribute to your 401k, and you will be fine.

To the OP - there is probably a decent nest egg in that trust, and your parents should be proud to tell you the value. They saved like they should, and not like the whiners on this board.

There are more out of pocket expenses - laundry, depends, haircut, nails, are extra….and if a personal care giver is needed, they can be another big expense - $20,000 a month on top of the $10,000 a month room rate. The money in the trust can quickly be spent if a parent needs that level of care for a period of time.

Laundry is included in the $11k/month we pay. Hair and nails are more but she keeps forgetting to go...

Depends--using one or two per day--is just not that much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this board are so paranoid about nursing home care. Yes it can cost $100-$120k a year, but you have no other expenses once the old person is in there. You sell the family home and cars. The old person is not taking vacations or going out to eat. The home even pays for the adult diapers. At most there is like $500 a year needed to buy some toothpaste, new socks, and a couple cheap haircuts. A normal retirement savings of a few million that throws off $80-100k a year, social security, and the proceeds from the house sale will easily cover 2-3 years of nursing home care (people don’t last longer than that once they get there- it is depressing as f@ck and they die off). Calm down about nursing home care, and continue to contribute to your 401k, and you will be fine.

To the OP - there is probably a decent nest egg in that trust, and your parents should be proud to tell you the value. They saved like they should, and not like the whiners on this board.

There are more out of pocket expenses - laundry, depends, haircut, nails, are extra….and if a personal care giver is needed, they can be another big expense - $20,000 a month on top of the $10,000 a month room rate. The money in the trust can quickly be spent if a parent needs that level of care for a period of time.

Dude. I have been through this a few times. That extra 20 bucks for a nail clip is not going to bust the trust. And if you are paying an extra $20k a month for a personal caregiver you have been sold a load of goods. At any rate, people in a reduced state don’t last long at these places -a few years tops which is not going to bankrupt the trust if you have a few million in there plus SS and the proceeds from a house.

NP here. Sounds like in the few times you have been through this, either the old person died while they were still able to get up out of a chair and walk with no or minimal assistance, or you were okay with leaving the old person lying in bed all day. Yes, you can do it for 120k but if you do that level of care when there is more money to spend on care so that the person does not have to lie on bed all day, you are a selfish jerk AND you are probably violating the terms of the trust because it may read that you are supposed to prioritize the current beneficiary's care over remainder men. I'm not going to leave my mom lying in a bed in wet diapers all day in a nursing home when she was trust money that could pay for an individual caregivers who can help her get out of bed, eat at a table, shower rather than bed bath, etc.

I'm a DP but how did you get the idea individual caregivers are the only way to go? My parent is in an AL and gets laundry, someone to help her get up, her diapers changes, showers, etc. We just pay more for these services.

The cost is around $11K/month. They charge by the day so the monthly amount varies.

Parent has dementia and sleeps a lot so is not doing much--and not because they let them lie in bed all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Is that weird that my parents have me pay the annual fee for a trust that’s unclear if it’s funded? I have 3+ kids (only sibling with children) and it’s kind of a pain to write this check every year. I’m like putting my own questionable inheritance on layaway

I am the family coordinator for about the ten trusts in my extended family and a layer, though not a trust and estate lawyer, and I have no idea what you are talking about.

That’s fair. I’m confused myself. Do the extended family members pay an annual fee into their respective trusts that they are beneficiaries of?

Np. I’m a trustee on a trust and I’m also confused. I get a set amount each year to be the administrator and that is paid by the trust, from the trusts bank account. No, the beneficiaries don’t pay.

Also, I’m required to provide an annual accounting to the beneficiaries detailing beginning/ending balances of investments and any expenses.

I truly have no idea what you are paying.

Yep. this is standard. As a beneficiary you have the right to ask for a yearly accounting. They might have funded a minimal amount to have it ready to go. And you should have a copy of the actual trust and actually read it. I’ve never heard of a beneficiary paying yearly administrative expenses.

Stop paying it without getting your questions answered. Who do you make the check to?

PP here writing the annual fee to the trust company. My dad owns a business and set up a series of trusts. He said one day some big deal would fully find it and pay $1MM into the trust, which today sits at $0 according to the annual statement I receive. I receive an invoice from the trustee firm each summer showing I owe $600 for the management fee. So far I’ve paid $6,000. I’m so confused.

Your dad sounds like a scam artist.

[Anonymous]

All of our relatives with dementia (1 on my side, 3 on DH’s at different times) ended up needing a private aide for at least some of the day in additional to a full memory care facility. Yes their basic needs are met but if you have the money most residents also have a private aid. And this was at 4 different well regarded facilities in 3 different cities.

[Anonymous]

Yes. One parent died recently; the administrator explained the will and shared trust documents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you just need to assume the amount you will get is zero.

It's possible they will spend it all on end of life care.

Yes, I do know what is in my parents' estate and trusts, but that is because they were sliding towards dementia and I am a lawyer and saw the writing on the wall and got involved and made sure all the paperwork was right.

if they are mentally competent and have done their estate planning, just ask who their lawyer is and where they keep their will.

NP. What if it’s an irrevocable trust? Once it’s in that kind of trust, can the money be used for end of life care or anything else?

[Anonymous]

There was a mysterious family trust that I had to pay taxes on for years. My grandmother gave me 1K from it every year. The tax amount was minimal so I didn't care that much.

It was a little weird to me that i was never given the details of it.

It turned out that after my grandmother's death it was distributed to her children. So, what I got was 1K a year for 25 years and then nothing. It was a lot of tax complication for a small amount. I wonder if the amount the accountant charged for sending out dozens of tax forms each year was more or less than the amount that was even disbursed.

That said, those 1K checks in my younger days were much appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Is that weird that my parents have me pay the annual fee for a trust that’s unclear if it’s funded? I have 3+ kids (only sibling with children) and it’s kind of a pain to write this check every year. I’m like putting my own questionable inheritance on layaway

I am the family coordinator for about the ten trusts in my extended family and a layer, though not a trust and estate lawyer, and I have no idea what you are talking about.

That’s fair. I’m confused myself. Do the extended family members pay an annual fee into their respective trusts that they are beneficiaries of?

Np. I’m a trustee on a trust and I’m also confused. I get a set amount each year to be the administrator and that is paid by the trust, from the trusts bank account. No, the beneficiaries don’t pay.

Also, I’m required to provide an annual accounting to the beneficiaries detailing beginning/ending balances of investments and any expenses.

I truly have no idea what you are paying.

Yep. this is standard. As a beneficiary you have the right to ask for a yearly accounting. They might have funded a minimal amount to have it ready to go. And you should have a copy of the actual trust and actually read it. I’ve never heard of a beneficiary paying yearly administrative expenses.

Stop paying it without getting your questions answered. Who do you make the check to?

PP here writing the annual fee to the trust company. My dad owns a business and set up a series of trusts. He said one day some big deal would fully find it and pay $1MM into the trust, which today sits at $0 according to the annual statement I receive. I receive an invoice from the trustee firm each summer showing I owe $600 for the management fee. So far I’ve paid $6,000. I’m so confused.

I think your dad may be scamming you. I’m sorry. My dad and uncle scammed me when I was 16, after I’d been working for a few years. The greatest lesson was that I learned all about finances and investing in HS because I didn’t want to end up like that again.

My dad died with a trust that only had his house in it, and maybe a few assets. But, it was poorly written, since my dad was terrible with $$, obvs. He also married a scammer.

We set up a family trust that feeds into trusts we set up for the kids. They’re in college, and while we had a family meeting with our lawyer, we didn’t disclose the amounts. We will later, but it will be $5-10M each.

Nice humble brag. But 5-10 million is such a big range that I smell bullshit.

Different poster here but it's not bullshit. We are 100% in stocks and obviously cannot tell our kids what they're going to inherit - it depends on stock market fluctuations. Right now there's ~15M in the portfolio and I'm in my 40s. Unless there's a major financial catastrophe or I die very soon... they might inherit much more, individually, than what's currently in there, just through market gains. 25 years ago this portfolio was worth very little! The market has been incredible for high tech in recent decades and I don't see it slow down any time soon. We have explained this to our children, and so they know that they cannot rely on a specific sum. They still need to attend college, start a career, work steadily and invest their own money. And then they'll see.

So perhaps all the old people with trusts aren't divulging what's in it because by the time their adult kids inherit it might change. I think they should still be transparent about current sums, but the older generation has perhaps more taboos surrounding money than mine.

I think it’s really odd and a big mistake for you to tell your young kids that you have that kind of money. It’s sad, really. You honestly think you can just “explain” the market to kids that young and that knowing they have that much money isn’t going to affect them and how they view their peers etc? It’s just so completely unnecessary and potentially counterproductive. We had plenty of money when our kids were younger and never dreamed of sharing it with them. What exactly is to be gained?

They were teens when we told them, PP. Plenty old enough, in my opinion. They have worked really hard in high school, and now college, and have great work ethic. Maybe your kids are different, but mine are mature about the responsibilities of managing money. They don't view their peers in any particular way - some of them have way less, some of them probably have more. We have poor and rich relatives. We don't come from the US and we've had a wide range of life experience, PP.

You can be sad if you want, though. After all, you did make the wrong assumptions and seem to be extremely narrow-minded and generally inexperienced in life. Age isn't a sole determinator of wisdom, age of kids or what you've done in your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Is that weird that my parents have me pay the annual fee for a trust that’s unclear if it’s funded? I have 3+ kids (only sibling with children) and it’s kind of a pain to write this check every year. I’m like putting my own questionable inheritance on layaway

I am the family coordinator for about the ten trusts in my extended family and a layer, though not a trust and estate lawyer, and I have no idea what you are talking about.

That’s fair. I’m confused myself. Do the extended family members pay an annual fee into their respective trusts that they are beneficiaries of?

Np. I’m a trustee on a trust and I’m also confused. I get a set amount each year to be the administrator and that is paid by the trust, from the trusts bank account. No, the beneficiaries don’t pay.

Also, I’m required to provide an annual accounting to the beneficiaries detailing beginning/ending balances of investments and any expenses.

I truly have no idea what you are paying.

Yep. this is standard. As a beneficiary you have the right to ask for a yearly accounting. They might have funded a minimal amount to have it ready to go. And you should have a copy of the actual trust and actually read it. I’ve never heard of a beneficiary paying yearly administrative expenses.

Stop paying it without getting your questions answered. Who do you make the check to?

PP here writing the annual fee to the trust company. My dad owns a business and set up a series of trusts. He said one day some big deal would fully find it and pay $1MM into the trust, which today sits at $0 according to the annual statement I receive. I receive an invoice from the trustee firm each summer showing I owe $600 for the management fee. So far I’ve paid $6,000. I’m so confused.

I think your dad may be scamming you. I’m sorry. My dad and uncle scammed me when I was 16, after I’d been working for a few years. The greatest lesson was that I learned all about finances and investing in HS because I didn’t want to end up like that again.

My dad died with a trust that only had his house in it, and maybe a few assets. But, it was poorly written, since my dad was terrible with $$, obvs. He also married a scammer.

We set up a family trust that feeds into trusts we set up for the kids. They’re in college, and while we had a family meeting with our lawyer, we didn’t disclose the amounts. We will later, but it will be $5-10M each.

Nice humble brag. But 5-10 million is such a big range that I smell bullshit.

Different poster here but it's not bullshit. We are 100% in stocks and obviously cannot tell our kids what they're going to inherit - it depends on stock market fluctuations. Right now there's ~15M in the portfolio and I'm in my 40s. Unless there's a major financial catastrophe or I die very soon... they might inherit much more, individually, than what's currently in there, just through market gains. 25 years ago this portfolio was worth very little! The market has been incredible for high tech in recent decades and I don't see it slow down any time soon. We have explained this to our children, and so they know that they cannot rely on a specific sum. They still need to attend college, start a career, work steadily and invest their own money. And then they'll see.

So perhaps all the old people with trusts aren't divulging what's in it because by the time their adult kids inherit it might change. I think they should still be transparent about current sums, but the older generation has perhaps more taboos surrounding money than mine.

I think it’s really odd and a big mistake for you to tell your young kids that you have that kind of money. It’s sad, really. You honestly think you can just “explain” the market to kids that young and that knowing they have that much money isn’t going to affect them and how they view their peers etc? It’s just so completely unnecessary and potentially counterproductive. We had plenty of money when our kids were younger and never dreamed of sharing it with them. What exactly is to be gained?

They were teens when we told them, PP. Plenty old enough, in my opinion. They have worked really hard in high school, and now college, and have great work ethic. Maybe your kids are different, but mine are mature about the responsibilities of managing money. They don't view their peers in any particular way - some of them have way less, some of them probably have more. We have poor and rich relatives. We don't come from the US and we've had a wide range of life experience, PP.

You can be sad if you want, though. After all, you did make the wrong assumptions and seem to be extremely narrow-minded and generally inexperienced in life. Age isn't a sole determinator of wisdom, age of kids or what you've done in your life.

Sure.

As I said, we’re wealthy too. We didn’t have to tell our kids when they were teens because they already knew it by then. As yours surely did too. And ours also worked really hard in high school and college and are now highly successful adults who manage their money well and still to this day know we have money but have no idea how much. The difference is that we didn’t down and brag to them about our wealth.

See, I actually have more life experience than you. Not less. Check back in when your kids are actually independent adults, ok?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this board are so paranoid about nursing home care. Yes it can cost $100-$120k a year, but you have no other expenses once the old person is in there. You sell the family home and cars. The old person is not taking vacations or going out to eat. The home even pays for the adult diapers. At most there is like $500 a year needed to buy some toothpaste, new socks, and a couple cheap haircuts. A normal retirement savings of a few million that throws off $80-100k a year, social security, and the proceeds from the house sale will easily cover 2-3 years of nursing home care (people don’t last longer than that once they get there- it is depressing as f@ck and they die off). Calm down about nursing home care, and continue to contribute to your 401k, and you will be fine.

To the OP - there is probably a decent nest egg in that trust, and your parents should be proud to tell you the value. They saved like they should, and not like the whiners on this board.

There are more out of pocket expenses - laundry, depends, haircut, nails, are extra….and if a personal care giver is needed, they can be another big expense - $20,000 a month on top of the $10,000 a month room rate. The money in the trust can quickly be spent if a parent needs that level of care for a period of time.

Laundry is included in the $11k/month we pay. Hair and nails are more but she keeps forgetting to go...

Depends--using one or two per day--is just not that much.

OMG you are supposed to change depends more than once or twice a day! They're not like cotton underwear. They need to be checked every two hours. If soiled with urine or defecation, they need to be changed. If not soiled, they need to be changed every hour hours even if not wet because they start getting sweaty etc and that can cause infections and skin break downs.

I feel sorry for the old people you have cared for.