“Highly processed” is so unclear

[Anonymous]

I'm with ya, op.

[Anonymous]

I’m nice some of you paired credit - this seems to be the most pedantic and obtuse post on DCUM ever, and that’s saying a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

[Anonymous]

I agree with OP.

We eat white rice and tortillas. I get that they're highly processed but I'm not willing to give them up. We also eat black beans. I guess not highly processed.

Butter? Cheese? Flour? Steel cut oatmeal? Heavy cream?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP.

We eat white rice and tortillas. I get that they're highly processed but I'm not willing to give them up. We also eat black beans. I guess not highly processed.

Butter? Cheese? Flour? Steel cut oatmeal? Heavy cream?

None of those foods are what folks refer to as ultra processed. Ultra processed typically refers to prepackaged foods like cheetoes that could only be made through an industrial process in a factory. Cheerios are in the middle. Some things are more processed than others and it seems common sense to me which ones are towards the ultra end. Even OP seems to understand what foods are more processed than others (Cheerios are more processed than oats). The question is deliberately obtuse.

Whether industrial processing is necessarily nutritionally degrading is a reasonable question. I think it makes sense that there’s a general trend towards foods being more palatable and easier to overeat as it becomes more processed. But it doesn’t strike me as insane to think claims about ultra processed foods are overstated by some people.

[Anonymous]

Yeah it’s become a new confusing marketing trend unfortunately. And I think yogurt is actually considered highly processed. And frankly the amount of sugar and pectin they add in America makes it pretty awful.

I think the old rule ‘shop the perimeter’ of the grocery store is still pretty good. Stay in the veggie/fruit section and refrigerated sections and try to visit the chips/cookies/snacks center aisles sparingly. I think even the bakery breads are so much better than the shelf stable breads. It’s a more expensive way to shop for sure. Also we do buy canned staples like chickpeas, black beans, rice. We also buy frozen veggies like peas, green bean, etc to throw in rice dishes. We avoid pasta.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP.

We eat white rice and tortillas. I get that they're highly processed but I'm not willing to give them up. We also eat black beans. I guess not highly processed.

Butter? Cheese? Flour? Steel cut oatmeal? Heavy cream?

How do you all get by left with level of antagonistic pedantism?

DP - but you can have tortillas which are processed - ground nixtamal, salt, and water that you mix up, press, and make at home. Or you can have shelf stable manufactured ones that possibly contain those ingredients but probably just use regular ground corn plus sugar, oil, preservatives, and maybe other ingredients like emulsifiers to make them taste better and retain texture. People prefer them because they’re squishy and sweet.

So yes, the original tamale is “processed” (it’s not straight corn after all), but the second tamale bears little resemblance to it nutritionally with all the added ingredients.

So

Corn - corn flour - nixtamal tortilla - store bought tortillas

Black beans - canned black beans - canned “refried” black beans - black bean flavoured Doritos

I’m really not catching what is so hard here. Imagine how something comes out of the ground. The closer you eat it to that state, the better. Mashing black beans up at home in a recipe is not the same as them being in a can with extra things. It doesn’t mean you can’t eat that can of things, but that when you can, choosing the plain beans is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

[Anonymous]

Well it isn’t a bright line. But you can still choose less processed things when you have the choice. It’s not that complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah it’s become a new confusing marketing trend unfortunately. And I think yogurt is actually considered highly processed. And frankly the amount of sugar and pectin they add in America makes it pretty awful.

I think the old rule ‘shop the perimeter’ of the grocery store is still pretty good. Stay in the veggie/fruit section and refrigerated sections and try to visit the chips/cookies/snacks center aisles sparingly. I think even the bakery breads are so much better than the shelf stable breads. It’s a more expensive way to shop for sure. Also we do buy canned staples like chickpeas, black beans, rice. We also buy frozen veggies like peas, green bean, etc to throw in rice dishes. We avoid pasta.

The "fresh" fruits and vegetables are kind of interesting. Food grade waxes, herbicides, and pesticides--yum.

[Anonymous]

Along with this, what do people mean by inflammation? I was talking to someone and she said she has inflammation and it was acting up. I asked her what she meant; was it joint pain? She couldn't describe it. I want to avoid it but what is it? It just sounds like a catch-all term.

Aren't highly processed foods supposed to contribute to inflammation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

A banana is not processed. I don’t need to grow the banana to know that it’s not processed. What do you not understand about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Along with this, what do people mean by inflammation? I was talking to someone and she said she has inflammation and it was acting up. I asked her what she meant; was it joint pain? She couldn't describe it. I want to avoid it but what is it? It just sounds like a catch-all term.

Aren't highly processed foods supposed to contribute to inflammation?

“I’m just asking questions.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Along with this, what do people mean by inflammation? I was talking to someone and she said she has inflammation and it was acting up. I asked her what she meant; was it joint pain? She couldn't describe it. I want to avoid it but what is it? It just sounds like a catch-all term.

Aren't highly processed foods supposed to contribute to inflammation?

“I’m just asking questions.”

What? I really don't understand what it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Along with this, what do people mean by inflammation? I was talking to someone and she said she has inflammation and it was acting up. I asked her what she meant; was it joint pain? She couldn't describe it. I want to avoid it but what is it? It just sounds like a catch-all term.

Aren't highly processed foods supposed to contribute to inflammation?

“I’m just asking questions.”

What? I really don't understand what it means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Asking_Questions

The Cliff’s Notes in case you’re too lazy to click:

[W]hen true scientists ask a question, they want an answer and will give due consideration to any possibilities. Deniers, on the other hand, will ask the same undermining questions over and over, long after they have been definitively answered. The questions—used to cast doubt—are all they are interested in, not the process of discovery they're meant to inspire.