TJ 1.5% accepted?

[Anonymous]

There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl


https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yet, what fcps politicians are aiming for and what fcps black students want are at odds. Fcps black students are genuinely and passionately interested in sports but fcps politicians want them to join TJ with lowest math and survive alongside peers who are already two years ahead?

Not true, my point is - black still very minority, yet people like you think they rob the Asian seat bigly.
You don’t believe if poor non asian kid is exist.

Exactly, and then there's the FACT that the largest beneficiary of the selection change were LOW-INCOME (poor) Asians.

There are fewer Asian kid than before. There are more of every other race than before. The largest increase is among white kids. It stands to reason that if you make the process more random then more seats will go to the majority population.

There are more Asian students enrolled in TJ in 2024-25 than in all years in the school's history aside from two years (2019, 2020).

Asian - 2% fewer enrolled in 2024 vs. 2020 (2% MORE Asian students enrolled than 2018)
White - 32% more
Multi/other - 40% more
Hispanic - 182% more
Black - 269% more

More importantly, all middle schools are now represented and the % of kids from economically-disadvantaged families has gone from <1% to 16% with the most recent admitted class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does TJ automatically accept the top 1.5% of each middle school? When you have many more than 1.5% taking the same classes and getting all A’s, what happens next?

The top 1.5% doesn't refer to GPA or courses taken.
All kids applying to TJ write a bunch of personal essays and a problem solving essay. The essays are graded, and the kids' scores are based on the essay scores, unweighted GPA, and experience factors (FARMS, IEP, ESOL). The unweighted GPA is not a huge factor, and they don't even look at courses taken or math level.

If a school has 600 8th graders, then it is guaranteed 1.5% of 600 = 9 TJ spots. The 9 kids with the highest scores are offered admissions.

But the highest scores are not the smartest or most prepared, due to the new system eliminating math level, objective testing, courses taken and teacher recommendations, correct?

That is correct. They may be the smartest. They may not be. The ranking is mostly based on the essays and experience factors.

+1

The idea was to get as close to a lottery as possible, which was the solution that the FCPS board tried to push the hardest.

Put a low threshold so that many would qualify and then try to keep the information available on the student to the minimum possible. Then, you get closer to the desired "should represent FCPS demographics". The main problem for FCPS board from achieving this is because of self selection bias and the pool of students who are applying do not represent FCPS demographics.

Just like most opportunists who took advantage of the riots in 2020 to pursue their own interests, FCPS board did the same.

Not really.. The idea was to address the rampant cheating that had tainted selection since many were buying early access to the entrance exam.

I am sorry your child did not get in. Please do not be bitter, as it would impact your child.

I understand your frustration and why you are agitated, but calm down for your kids sake.

There were test banks at certain prep schools with questions kids memorized and told the schools. The test banks gave the students at those schools an advantage. We have seen issues with the AMC tests along these lines as well. MathCounts reminds parents to not take pictures of questions and post them because there are kids in other sections taking the tests later. There is plenty of evidence of cheating/unfair advantages in higher level math competitions and tests.

as fictional as your stories are, can you dare to name one prep school that did this?

DP but wasn’t it Curie? They used to post the names of all their students who got accepted to TJ and it was close to if not over 100 students every year until the criteria changed.

It was one year. They did that one year and the parents were furious to see their kids names in the newspaper identified as having prepped since 3rd grade.

It was longer then 1 year. If you had looked at Curie's website, they listed the kids accepted for a series of years. The number of acceptance grew every year up until the year that they had their largest numbers. That was also the year that students posted on a TJ site that they had used a test bank at Curie to study for the test. Some students admitted to memorizing and providing questions back to Curie to include in the test bank. That was the year that the Quant test was dropped. The suspicion is that other programs were doing something similar but had not had the same level of success.

There is no way to know if the students who were named had prepped since 3rd grade, the listing only included them in the specific program to prepare for the TJ test that year. There is speculation that many of the kids participated in enrichment programs for a long time. I could care less about that. My kid does math enichment because he enjoys it. Does it help him in school? Yes. Will it help him with whatever test TJ admission uses? Yes. There is no way to remove that element.

Creating a test bank of used questions is a step above enrichment. The test company was not doing its job in adjusting the test on an annual basis, which allowed the test bank to be more useful. There were posts that kids had studied the exact questions that were on the exam, that is a failure of the company. That said, kids were given a huge edge if they were willing to pay a good amount of money to participate in a specific program to gain an advantage.

This isn't the SAT or ACT or LSAT or GRE where there are test books available and prep classes are commonplace. It isn't even the tests used by private schools that have tutors and prep programs. It was a test for a specific high school that is supposed to serve all of the kids in the area, not just kids who have access to schools with test banks. You cannot replace the Quant with something used at school because the vast majority of the kids applying to TJ should be passing advanced on their math SOL. Requiring an advanced pass on the math SOL would not remove most of the kids and the scores on the math SOLs for the Honors math classes in MS tend to average high. They really won't help with discriminating between students.

And even under that system there were parents complaining about who was accepted and chagrin that genius child from school X who participated in national competition y was not accepted. There is always going to be complaining about the admissions process. TJ is a public school that is meant to serve the population that is advanced and enjoys STEM. Your version of who should be accepted based on classes is simply different then what the administration thinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

It's this the same Megan McLaughlin that denounced the "embarrassing process"used to change admissions at TJ?

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

This wasn't about preventing prepping. It was about race

TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
[i]“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

This is the virtue signaling middle class kid who was crying about how her middle class resources have her an unfair advantage because she could become familiar with the FORMAT of the test.

TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl[/quoted]

The notion of secret standardized tests is stupid. You can either keep tests secret and limit advantage to those who are in on the secret or you can make them public and everyone has the same advantage.

https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

How does any of this sort your allegations of a test bank or people buying the test.

The clearly stated goal of the new admissions process was racial diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yet, what fcps politicians are aiming for and what fcps black students want are at odds. Fcps black students are genuinely and passionately interested in sports but fcps politicians want them to join TJ with lowest math and survive alongside peers who are already two years ahead?

Not true, my point is - black still very minority, yet people like you think they rob the Asian seat bigly.
You don’t believe if poor non asian kid is exist.

Exactly, and then there's the FACT that the largest beneficiary of the selection change were LOW-INCOME (poor) Asians.

There are fewer Asian kid than before. There are more of every other race than before. The largest increase is among white kids. It stands to reason that if you make the process more random then more seats will go to the majority population.

There are more Asian students enrolled in TJ in 2024-25 than in all years in the school's history aside from two years (2019, 2020).

Asian - 2% fewer enrolled in 2024 vs. 2020 (2% MORE Asian students enrolled than 2018)
White - 32% more
Multi/other - 40% more
Hispanic - 182% more
Black - 269% more

More importantly, all middle schools are now represented and the % of kids from economically-disadvantaged families has gone from <1% to 16% with the most recent admitted class.

If racial, economic and horrific diversity is your goal then the new process is a huge success.

If academic excellence of all admitted students is your goal, then the new process is a resounding failure. PSAT score dropped by 120 points. SAT scores probably dropped by just as much. The average SAT score at TJ was ~1520. That will likely drop to ~1400. The average SAT score at McLean is ~1370. So TJ still does better than McLean but not by much. 30 points, that's the difference between Oakton and Woodson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does TJ automatically accept the top 1.5% of each middle school? When you have many more than 1.5% taking the same classes and getting all A’s, what happens next?

The top 1.5% doesn't refer to GPA or courses taken.
All kids applying to TJ write a bunch of personal essays and a problem solving essay. The essays are graded, and the kids' scores are based on the essay scores, unweighted GPA, and experience factors (FARMS, IEP, ESOL). The unweighted GPA is not a huge factor, and they don't even look at courses taken or math level.

If a school has 600 8th graders, then it is guaranteed 1.5% of 600 = 9 TJ spots. The 9 kids with the highest scores are offered admissions.

But the highest scores are not the smartest or most prepared, due to the new system eliminating math level, objective testing, courses taken and teacher recommendations, correct?

That is correct. They may be the smartest. They may not be. The ranking is mostly based on the essays and experience factors.

+1

The idea was to get as close to a lottery as possible, which was the solution that the FCPS board tried to push the hardest.

Put a low threshold so that many would qualify and then try to keep the information available on the student to the minimum possible. Then, you get closer to the desired "should represent FCPS demographics". The main problem for FCPS board from achieving this is because of self selection bias and the pool of students who are applying do not represent FCPS demographics.

Just like most opportunists who took advantage of the riots in 2020 to pursue their own interests, FCPS board did the same.

Not really.. The idea was to address the rampant cheating that had tainted selection since many were buying early access to the entrance exam.

I am sorry your child did not get in. Please do not be bitter, as it would impact your child.

I understand your frustration and why you are agitated, but calm down for your kids sake.

There were test banks at certain prep schools with questions kids memorized and told the schools. The test banks gave the students at those schools an advantage. We have seen issues with the AMC tests along these lines as well. MathCounts reminds parents to not take pictures of questions and post them because there are kids in other sections taking the tests later. There is plenty of evidence of cheating/unfair advantages in higher level math competitions and tests.

as fictional as your stories are, can you dare to name one prep school that did this?

DP but wasn’t it Curie? They used to post the names of all their students who got accepted to TJ and it was close to if not over 100 students every year until the criteria changed.

It was one year. They did that one year and the parents were furious to see their kids names in the newspaper identified as having prepped since 3rd grade.

Some students admitted to [bold]memorizing[/bold] and providing questions back to Curie to include in the test bank. That was the year that the Quant test was dropped. The suspicion is that other programs were doing something similar but had not had the same level of success.

you have a cite for this?

There is no way to know if the students who were named had prepped since 3rd grade, the listing only included them in the specific program to prepare for the TJ test that year. There is speculation that many of the kids participated in enrichment programs for a long time. I could care less about that. My kid does math enichment because he enjoys it. Does it help him in school? Yes. Will it help him with whatever test TJ admission uses? Yes. There is no way to remove that element.

Creating a test bank of used questions is a step above enrichment. The test company was not doing its job in adjusting the test on an annual basis, which allowed the test bank to be more useful. There were posts that kids had studied the exact questions that were on the exam, that is a failure of the company. That said, kids were given a huge edge if they were willing to pay a good amount of money to participate in a specific program to gain an advantage.

The"good amount of money" in question is $300. That's what you pay for test prep above the enrichment.

This isn't the SAT or ACT or LSAT or GRE where there are test books available and prep classes are commonplace. It isn't even the tests used by private schools that have tutors and prep programs. It was a test for a specific high school that is supposed to serve all of the kids in the area, not just kids who have access to schools with test banks. You cannot replace the Quant with something used at school because the vast majority of the kids applying to TJ should be passing advanced on their math SOL. Requiring an advanced pass on the math SOL would not remove most of the kids and the scores on the math SOLs for the Honors math classes in MS tend to average high. They really won't help with discriminating between students.

The SHSAT exists and pro books exist for it. There were prep books for the TJ test and quant Q. The prep part of this is the easiest part. Use the PSAT of you want something ubiquitous. That's what they use now for froshmore admissions.

And even under that system there were parents complaining about who was accepted and chagrin that genius child from school X who participated in national competition y was not accepted. There is always going to be complaining about the admissions process. TJ is a public school that is meant to serve the population that is advanced and enjoys STEM. Your version of who should be accepted based on classes is simply different then what the administration thinks.

Any complaints can safely be ignored when the admission standards are objective and merit based.

The current method is subjective and has only a hint of merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does TJ automatically accept the top 1.5% of each middle school? When you have many more than 1.5% taking the same classes and getting all A’s, what happens next?

The top 1.5% doesn't refer to GPA or courses taken.
All kids applying to TJ write a bunch of personal essays and a problem solving essay. The essays are graded, and the kids' scores are based on the essay scores, unweighted GPA, and experience factors (FARMS, IEP, ESOL). The unweighted GPA is not a huge factor, and they don't even look at courses taken or math level.

If a school has 600 8th graders, then it is guaranteed 1.5% of 600 = 9 TJ spots. The 9 kids with the highest scores are offered admissions.

But the highest scores are not the smartest or most prepared, due to the new system eliminating math level, objective testing, courses taken and teacher recommendations, correct?

That is correct. They may be the smartest. They may not be. The ranking is mostly based on the essays and experience factors.

+1

The idea was to get as close to a lottery as possible, which was the solution that the FCPS board tried to push the hardest.

Put a low threshold so that many would qualify and then try to keep the information available on the student to the minimum possible. Then, you get closer to the desired "should represent FCPS demographics". The main problem for FCPS board from achieving this is because of self selection bias and the pool of students who are applying do not represent FCPS demographics.

Just like most opportunists who took advantage of the riots in 2020 to pursue their own interests, FCPS board did the same.

Not really.. The idea was to address the rampant cheating that had tainted selection since many were buying early access to the entrance exam.

I am sorry your child did not get in. Please do not be bitter, as it would impact your child.

I understand your frustration and why you are agitated, but calm down for your kids sake.

There were test banks at certain prep schools with questions kids memorized and told the schools. The test banks gave the students at those schools an advantage. We have seen issues with the AMC tests along these lines as well. MathCounts reminds parents to not take pictures of questions and post them because there are kids in other sections taking the tests later. There is plenty of evidence of cheating/unfair advantages in higher level math competitions and tests.

as fictional as your stories are, can you dare to name one prep school that did this?

DP but wasn’t it Curie? They used to post the names of all their students who got accepted to TJ and it was close to if not over 100 students every year until the criteria changed.

It was one year. They did that one year and the parents were furious to see their kids names in the newspaper identified as having prepped since 3rd grade.

Some students admitted to [bold]memorizing[/bold] and providing questions back to Curie to include in the test bank. That was the year that the Quant test was dropped. The suspicion is that other programs were doing something similar but had not had the same level of success.

you have a cite for this?

There is no way to know if the students who were named had prepped since 3rd grade, the listing only included them in the specific program to prepare for the TJ test that year. There is speculation that many of the kids participated in enrichment programs for a long time. I could care less about that. My kid does math enichment because he enjoys it. Does it help him in school? Yes. Will it help him with whatever test TJ admission uses? Yes. There is no way to remove that element.

Creating a test bank of used questions is a step above enrichment. The test company was not doing its job in adjusting the test on an annual basis, which allowed the test bank to be more useful. There were posts that kids had studied the exact questions that were on the exam, that is a failure of the company. That said, kids were given a huge edge if they were willing to pay a good amount of money to participate in a specific program to gain an advantage.

The"good amount of money" in question is $300. That's what you pay for test prep above the enrichment.

This isn't the SAT or ACT or LSAT or GRE where there are test books available and prep classes are commonplace. It isn't even the tests used by private schools that have tutors and prep programs. It was a test for a specific high school that is supposed to serve all of the kids in the area, not just kids who have access to schools with test banks. You cannot replace the Quant with something used at school because the vast majority of the kids applying to TJ should be passing advanced on their math SOL. Requiring an advanced pass on the math SOL would not remove most of the kids and the scores on the math SOLs for the Honors math classes in MS tend to average high. They really won't help with discriminating between students.

The SHSAT exists and pro books exist for it. There were prep books for the TJ test and quant Q. The prep part of this is the easiest part. Use the PSAT of you want something ubiquitous. That's what they use now for froshmore admissions.

And even under that system there were parents complaining about who was accepted and chagrin that genius child from school X who participated in national competition y was not accepted. There is always going to be complaining about the admissions process. TJ is a public school that is meant to serve the population that is advanced and enjoys STEM. Your version of who should be accepted based on classes is simply different then what the administration thinks.

Any complaints can safely be ignored when the admission standards are objective and merit based.

The current method is subjective and has only a hint of merit.

DP. The "prep books for the quant Q" are laughable and are basically a scam. They are expensive and absolutely worthless, if you look at them instead of just tout their existence. The prep from they-who-shall-not-be-named was invaluable, the proof was on their website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does TJ automatically accept the top 1.5% of each middle school? When you have many more than 1.5% taking the same classes and getting all A’s, what happens next?

The top 1.5% doesn't refer to GPA or courses taken.
All kids applying to TJ write a bunch of personal essays and a problem solving essay. The essays are graded, and the kids' scores are based on the essay scores, unweighted GPA, and experience factors (FARMS, IEP, ESOL). The unweighted GPA is not a huge factor, and they don't even look at courses taken or math level.

If a school has 600 8th graders, then it is guaranteed 1.5% of 600 = 9 TJ spots. The 9 kids with the highest scores are offered admissions.

But the highest scores are not the smartest or most prepared, due to the new system eliminating math level, objective testing, courses taken and teacher recommendations, correct?

That is correct. They may be the smartest. They may not be. The ranking is mostly based on the essays and experience factors.

+1

The idea was to get as close to a lottery as possible, which was the solution that the FCPS board tried to push the hardest.

Put a low threshold so that many would qualify and then try to keep the information available on the student to the minimum possible. Then, you get closer to the desired "should represent FCPS demographics". The main problem for FCPS board from achieving this is because of self selection bias and the pool of students who are applying do not represent FCPS demographics.

Just like most opportunists who took advantage of the riots in 2020 to pursue their own interests, FCPS board did the same.

Not really.. The idea was to address the rampant cheating that had tainted selection since many were buying early access to the entrance exam.

I am sorry your child did not get in. Please do not be bitter, as it would impact your child.

I understand your frustration and why you are agitated, but calm down for your kids sake.

There were test banks at certain prep schools with questions kids memorized and told the schools. The test banks gave the students at those schools an advantage. We have seen issues with the AMC tests along these lines as well. MathCounts reminds parents to not take pictures of questions and post them because there are kids in other sections taking the tests later. There is plenty of evidence of cheating/unfair advantages in higher level math competitions and tests.

as fictional as your stories are, can you dare to name one prep school that did this?

DP but wasn’t it Curie? They used to post the names of all their students who got accepted to TJ and it was close to if not over 100 students every year until the criteria changed.

It was one year. They did that one year and the parents were furious to see their kids names in the newspaper identified as having prepped since 3rd grade.

Some students admitted to [bold]memorizing[/bold] and providing questions back to Curie to include in the test bank. That was the year that the Quant test was dropped. The suspicion is that other programs were doing something similar but had not had the same level of success.

you have a cite for this?

There is no way to know if the students who were named had prepped since 3rd grade, the listing only included them in the specific program to prepare for the TJ test that year. There is speculation that many of the kids participated in enrichment programs for a long time. I could care less about that. My kid does math enichment because he enjoys it. Does it help him in school? Yes. Will it help him with whatever test TJ admission uses? Yes. There is no way to remove that element.

Creating a test bank of used questions is a step above enrichment. The test company was not doing its job in adjusting the test on an annual basis, which allowed the test bank to be more useful. There were posts that kids had studied the exact questions that were on the exam, that is a failure of the company. That said, kids were given a huge edge if they were willing to pay a good amount of money to participate in a specific program to gain an advantage.

The"good amount of money" in question is $300. That's what you pay for test prep above the enrichment.

This isn't the SAT or ACT or LSAT or GRE where there are test books available and prep classes are commonplace. It isn't even the tests used by private schools that have tutors and prep programs. It was a test for a specific high school that is supposed to serve all of the kids in the area, not just kids who have access to schools with test banks. You cannot replace the Quant with something used at school because the vast majority of the kids applying to TJ should be passing advanced on their math SOL. Requiring an advanced pass on the math SOL would not remove most of the kids and the scores on the math SOLs for the Honors math classes in MS tend to average high. They really won't help with discriminating between students.

The SHSAT exists and pro books exist for it. There were prep books for the TJ test and quant Q. The prep part of this is the easiest part. Use the PSAT of you want something ubiquitous. That's what they use now for froshmore admissions.

And even under that system there were parents complaining about who was accepted and chagrin that genius child from school X who participated in national competition y was not accepted. There is always going to be complaining about the admissions process. TJ is a public school that is meant to serve the population that is advanced and enjoys STEM. Your version of who should be accepted based on classes is simply different then what the administration thinks.

Any complaints can safely be ignored when the admission standards are objective and merit based.

The current method is subjective and has only a hint of merit.

DP. The "prep books for the quant Q" are laughable and are basically a scam. They are expensive and absolutely worthless, if you look at them instead of just tout their existence. The prep from they-who-shall-not-be-named was invaluable, the proof was on their website.

TJ test prep at cutie was a $300 module over a few weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does TJ automatically accept the top 1.5% of each middle school? When you have many more than 1.5% taking the same classes and getting all A’s, what happens next?

The top 1.5% doesn't refer to GPA or courses taken.
All kids applying to TJ write a bunch of personal essays and a problem solving essay. The essays are graded, and the kids' scores are based on the essay scores, unweighted GPA, and experience factors (FARMS, IEP, ESOL). The unweighted GPA is not a huge factor, and they don't even look at courses taken or math level.

If a school has 600 8th graders, then it is guaranteed 1.5% of 600 = 9 TJ spots. The 9 kids with the highest scores are offered admissions.

But the highest scores are not the smartest or most prepared, due to the new system eliminating math level, objective testing, courses taken and teacher recommendations, correct?

That is correct. They may be the smartest. They may not be. The ranking is mostly based on the essays and experience factors.

+1

The idea was to get as close to a lottery as possible, which was the solution that the FCPS board tried to push the hardest.

Put a low threshold so that many would qualify and then try to keep the information available on the student to the minimum possible. Then, you get closer to the desired "should represent FCPS demographics". The main problem for FCPS board from achieving this is because of self selection bias and the pool of students who are applying do not represent FCPS demographics.

Just like most opportunists who took advantage of the riots in 2020 to pursue their own interests, FCPS board did the same.

Not really.. The idea was to address the rampant cheating that had tainted selection since many were buying early access to the entrance exam.

I am sorry your child did not get in. Please do not be bitter, as it would impact your child.

I understand your frustration and why you are agitated, but calm down for your kids sake.

There were test banks at certain prep schools with questions kids memorized and told the schools. The test banks gave the students at those schools an advantage. We have seen issues with the AMC tests along these lines as well. MathCounts reminds parents to not take pictures of questions and post them because there are kids in other sections taking the tests later. There is plenty of evidence of cheating/unfair advantages in higher level math competitions and tests.

as fictional as your stories are, can you dare to name one prep school that did this?

DP but wasn’t it Curie? They used to post the names of all their students who got accepted to TJ and it was close to if not over 100 students every year until the criteria changed.

It was one year. They did that one year and the parents were furious to see their kids names in the newspaper identified as having prepped since 3rd grade.

Some students admitted to [bold]memorizing[/bold] and providing questions back to Curie to include in the test bank. That was the year that the Quant test was dropped. The suspicion is that other programs were doing something similar but had not had the same level of success.

you have a cite for this?

There is no way to know if the students who were named had prepped since 3rd grade, the listing only included them in the specific program to prepare for the TJ test that year. There is speculation that many of the kids participated in enrichment programs for a long time. I could care less about that. My kid does math enichment because he enjoys it. Does it help him in school? Yes. Will it help him with whatever test TJ admission uses? Yes. There is no way to remove that element.

Creating a test bank of used questions is a step above enrichment. The test company was not doing its job in adjusting the test on an annual basis, which allowed the test bank to be more useful. There were posts that kids had studied the exact questions that were on the exam, that is a failure of the company. That said, kids were given a huge edge if they were willing to pay a good amount of money to participate in a specific program to gain an advantage.

The"good amount of money" in question is $300. That's what you pay for test prep above the enrichment.

This isn't the SAT or ACT or LSAT or GRE where there are test books available and prep classes are commonplace. It isn't even the tests used by private schools that have tutors and prep programs. It was a test for a specific high school that is supposed to serve all of the kids in the area, not just kids who have access to schools with test banks. You cannot replace the Quant with something used at school because the vast majority of the kids applying to TJ should be passing advanced on their math SOL. Requiring an advanced pass on the math SOL would not remove most of the kids and the scores on the math SOLs for the Honors math classes in MS tend to average high. They really won't help with discriminating between students.

The SHSAT exists and pro books exist for it. There were prep books for the TJ test and quant Q. The prep part of this is the easiest part. Use the PSAT of you want something ubiquitous. That's what they use now for froshmore admissions.

And even under that system there were parents complaining about who was accepted and chagrin that genius child from school X who participated in national competition y was not accepted. There is always going to be complaining about the admissions process. TJ is a public school that is meant to serve the population that is advanced and enjoys STEM. Your version of who should be accepted based on classes is simply different then what the administration thinks.

Any complaints can safely be ignored when the admission standards are objective and merit based.

The current method is subjective and has only a hint of merit.

DP. The "prep books for the quant Q" are laughable and are basically a scam. They are expensive and absolutely worthless, if you look at them instead of just tout their existence. The prep from they-who-shall-not-be-named was invaluable, the proof was on their website.

TJ test prep at cutie was a $300 module over a few weeks.

Many parents spent far more than a few hundred dollars for TJ test prep.

$2120
https://plcprep.com/1-on-1_tutoring.php

$200-300 per hour
https://www.principiatutors.com/our-pricing

$625
https://fairfaxcollegiate.com/test-prep/tjhsst-prep

$1000+ including practice tests
https://web.archive.org/web/20190411164031/http://katedalby.com/tj-admissions-prep/

$800 self paced
$2400 small group
https://www.tjtestprep.com/

$1950
https://www.principiatutors.com/tj-sps-pse-prep

$6985+ signature program that runs over two years “pass any test for admission into specialized programs like AOS/AET and TJ”
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/f3476daf-2f3a-478e-9e4a-0f297817f6fc/2024-2025%20Curie%20Academic%20Year%20Schedule%20(10.20..pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

It's this the same Megan McLaughlin that denounced the "embarrassing process"used to change admissions at TJ?

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

This wasn't about preventing prepping. It was about race

TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
[i]“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

This is the virtue signaling middle class kid who was crying about how her middle class resources have her an unfair advantage because she could become familiar with the FORMAT of the test.

TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl[/quoted]

The notion of secret standardized tests is stupid. You can either keep tests secret and limit advantage to those who are in on the secret or you can make them public and everyone has the same advantage.

https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

How does any of this sort your allegations of a test bank or people buying the test.

The clearly stated goal of the new admissions process was racial diversity.

Stop with the fake news already!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does TJ automatically accept the top 1.5% of each middle school? When you have many more than 1.5% taking the same classes and getting all A’s, what happens next?

The top 1.5% doesn't refer to GPA or courses taken.
All kids applying to TJ write a bunch of personal essays and a problem solving essay. The essays are graded, and the kids' scores are based on the essay scores, unweighted GPA, and experience factors (FARMS, IEP, ESOL). The unweighted GPA is not a huge factor, and they don't even look at courses taken or math level.

If a school has 600 8th graders, then it is guaranteed 1.5% of 600 = 9 TJ spots. The 9 kids with the highest scores are offered admissions.

But the highest scores are not the smartest or most prepared, due to the new system eliminating math level, objective testing, courses taken and teacher recommendations, correct?

That is correct. They may be the smartest. They may not be. The ranking is mostly based on the essays and experience factors.

+1

The idea was to get as close to a lottery as possible, which was the solution that the FCPS board tried to push the hardest.

Put a low threshold so that many would qualify and then try to keep the information available on the student to the minimum possible. Then, you get closer to the desired "should represent FCPS demographics". The main problem for FCPS board from achieving this is because of self selection bias and the pool of students who are applying do not represent FCPS demographics.

Just like most opportunists who took advantage of the riots in 2020 to pursue their own interests, FCPS board did the same.

Not really.. The idea was to address the rampant cheating that had tainted selection since many were buying early access to the entrance exam.

I am sorry your child did not get in. Please do not be bitter, as it would impact your child.

I understand your frustration and why you are agitated, but calm down for your kids sake.

There were test banks at certain prep schools with questions kids memorized and told the schools. The test banks gave the students at those schools an advantage. We have seen issues with the AMC tests along these lines as well. MathCounts reminds parents to not take pictures of questions and post them because there are kids in other sections taking the tests later. There is plenty of evidence of cheating/unfair advantages in higher level math competitions and tests.

as fictional as your stories are, can you dare to name one prep school that did this?

DP but wasn’t it Curie? They used to post the names of all their students who got accepted to TJ and it was close to if not over 100 students every year until the criteria changed.

It was one year. They did that one year and the parents were furious to see their kids names in the newspaper identified as having prepped since 3rd grade.

Some students admitted to [bold]memorizing[/bold] and providing questions back to Curie to include in the test bank. That was the year that the Quant test was dropped. The suspicion is that other programs were doing something similar but had not had the same level of success.

you have a cite for this?

There is no way to know if the students who were named had prepped since 3rd grade, the listing only included them in the specific program to prepare for the TJ test that year. There is speculation that many of the kids participated in enrichment programs for a long time. I could care less about that. My kid does math enichment because he enjoys it. Does it help him in school? Yes. Will it help him with whatever test TJ admission uses? Yes. There is no way to remove that element.

Creating a test bank of used questions is a step above enrichment. The test company was not doing its job in adjusting the test on an annual basis, which allowed the test bank to be more useful. There were posts that kids had studied the exact questions that were on the exam, that is a failure of the company. That said, kids were given a huge edge if they were willing to pay a good amount of money to participate in a specific program to gain an advantage.

The"good amount of money" in question is $300. That's what you pay for test prep above the enrichment.

This isn't the SAT or ACT or LSAT or GRE where there are test books available and prep classes are commonplace. It isn't even the tests used by private schools that have tutors and prep programs. It was a test for a specific high school that is supposed to serve all of the kids in the area, not just kids who have access to schools with test banks. You cannot replace the Quant with something used at school because the vast majority of the kids applying to TJ should be passing advanced on their math SOL. Requiring an advanced pass on the math SOL would not remove most of the kids and the scores on the math SOLs for the Honors math classes in MS tend to average high. They really won't help with discriminating between students.

The SHSAT exists and pro books exist for it. There were prep books for the TJ test and quant Q. The prep part of this is the easiest part. Use the PSAT of you want something ubiquitous. That's what they use now for froshmore admissions.

And even under that system there were parents complaining about who was accepted and chagrin that genius child from school X who participated in national competition y was not accepted. There is always going to be complaining about the admissions process. TJ is a public school that is meant to serve the population that is advanced and enjoys STEM. Your version of who should be accepted based on classes is simply different then what the administration thinks.

Any complaints can safely be ignored when the admission standards are objective and merit based.

The current method is subjective and has only a hint of merit.

DP. The "prep books for the quant Q" are laughable and are basically a scam. They are expensive and absolutely worthless, if you look at them instead of just tout their existence. The prep from they-who-shall-not-be-named was invaluable, the proof was on their website.

TJ test prep at cutie was a $300 module over a few weeks.

Many parents spent far more than a few hundred dollars for TJ test prep.

$2120
https://plcprep.com/1-on-1_tutoring.php

$200-300 per hour
https://www.principiatutors.com/our-pricing

$625
https://fairfaxcollegiate.com/test-prep/tjhsst-prep

$1000+ including practice tests
https://web.archive.org/web/20190411164031/http://katedalby.com/tj-admissions-prep/

$800 self paced
$2400 small group
https://www.tjtestprep.com/

$1950
https://www.principiatutors.com/tj-sps-pse-prep

$6985+ signature program that runs over two years “pass any test for admission into specialized programs like AOS/AET and TJ”
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/f3476daf-2f3a-478e-9e4a-0f297817f6fc/2024-2025%20Curie%20Academic%20Year%20Schedule%20(10.20..pdf

Many were spending $10k to $20k, all things considered. People were buying their way into TJ. Overwhelmingly, only students from wealthy feeders could afford to access this public school program. it's unfortunate really.

[Anonymous]

THE COURT RULED THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ASIAN STUDENTS
https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/221280.P.pdf
Pg 7
“we are satisfied that the challenged admissions policy does not disparately impact Asian American students”

SCOTUS left ruling in place:
https://virginiamercury.com/2024/02/20/supreme-court-wont-hear-thomas-jefferson-admissions-case/



THE DATA BACKS THIS UP:
There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students.

And Asian students are still accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students (class of 25)
Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%


LOW-INCOME ASIAN STUDENTS BENEFITED THE MOST FROM CHANGES
https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/221280.P.pdf

page 16
"Nevertheless, in the 2021 application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:THE COURT RULED THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ASIAN STUDENTS
https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/221280.P.pdf
Pg 7
“we are satisfied that the challenged admissions policy does not disparately impact Asian American students”

SCOTUS left ruling in place:
https://virginiamercury.com/2024/02/20/supreme-court-wont-hear-thomas-jefferson-admissions-case/



THE DATA BACKS THIS UP:
There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students.

And Asian students are still accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students (class of 25)
Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%


LOW-INCOME ASIAN STUDENTS BENEFITED THE MOST FROM CHANGES
https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/221280.P.pdf

page 16
"Nevertheless, in the 2021 application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

After all these shenanigans, the top 350 students of every TJ clas, before and after admission change, are all Asian American students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does TJ automatically accept the top 1.5% of each middle school? When you have many more than 1.5% taking the same classes and getting all A’s, what happens next?

The top 1.5% doesn't refer to GPA or courses taken.
All kids applying to TJ write a bunch of personal essays and a problem solving essay. The essays are graded, and the kids' scores are based on the essay scores, unweighted GPA, and experience factors (FARMS, IEP, ESOL). The unweighted GPA is not a huge factor, and they don't even look at courses taken or math level.

If a school has 600 8th graders, then it is guaranteed 1.5% of 600 = 9 TJ spots. The 9 kids with the highest scores are offered admissions.

But the highest scores are not the smartest or most prepared, due to the new system eliminating math level, objective testing, courses taken and teacher recommendations, correct?

That is correct. They may be the smartest. They may not be. The ranking is mostly based on the essays and experience factors.

+1

The idea was to get as close to a lottery as possible, which was the solution that the FCPS board tried to push the hardest.

Put a low threshold so that many would qualify and then try to keep the information available on the student to the minimum possible. Then, you get closer to the desired "should represent FCPS demographics". The main problem for FCPS board from achieving this is because of self selection bias and the pool of students who are applying do not represent FCPS demographics.

Just like most opportunists who took advantage of the riots in 2020 to pursue their own interests, FCPS board did the same.

Not really.. The idea was to address the rampant cheating that had tainted selection since many were buying early access to the entrance exam.

I am sorry your child did not get in. Please do not be bitter, as it would impact your child.

I understand your frustration and why you are agitated, but calm down for your kids sake.

There were test banks at certain prep schools with questions kids memorized and told the schools. The test banks gave the students at those schools an advantage. We have seen issues with the AMC tests along these lines as well. MathCounts reminds parents to not take pictures of questions and post them because there are kids in other sections taking the tests later. There is plenty of evidence of cheating/unfair advantages in higher level math competitions and tests.

as fictional as your stories are, can you dare to name one prep school that did this?

DP but wasn’t it Curie? They used to post the names of all their students who got accepted to TJ and it was close to if not over 100 students every year until the criteria changed.

It was one year. They did that one year and the parents were furious to see their kids names in the newspaper identified as having prepped since 3rd grade.

Some students admitted to [bold]memorizing[/bold] and providing questions back to Curie to include in the test bank. That was the year that the Quant test was dropped. The suspicion is that other programs were doing something similar but had not had the same level of success.

you have a cite for this?

There is no way to know if the students who were named had prepped since 3rd grade, the listing only included them in the specific program to prepare for the TJ test that year. There is speculation that many of the kids participated in enrichment programs for a long time. I could care less about that. My kid does math enichment because he enjoys it. Does it help him in school? Yes. Will it help him with whatever test TJ admission uses? Yes. There is no way to remove that element.

Creating a test bank of used questions is a step above enrichment. The test company was not doing its job in adjusting the test on an annual basis, which allowed the test bank to be more useful. There were posts that kids had studied the exact questions that were on the exam, that is a failure of the company. That said, kids were given a huge edge if they were willing to pay a good amount of money to participate in a specific program to gain an advantage.

The"good amount of money" in question is $300. That's what you pay for test prep above the enrichment.

This isn't the SAT or ACT or LSAT or GRE where there are test books available and prep classes are commonplace. It isn't even the tests used by private schools that have tutors and prep programs. It was a test for a specific high school that is supposed to serve all of the kids in the area, not just kids who have access to schools with test banks. You cannot replace the Quant with something used at school because the vast majority of the kids applying to TJ should be passing advanced on their math SOL. Requiring an advanced pass on the math SOL would not remove most of the kids and the scores on the math SOLs for the Honors math classes in MS tend to average high. They really won't help with discriminating between students.

The SHSAT exists and pro books exist for it. There were prep books for the TJ test and quant Q. The prep part of this is the easiest part. Use the PSAT of you want something ubiquitous. That's what they use now for froshmore admissions.

And even under that system there were parents complaining about who was accepted and chagrin that genius child from school X who participated in national competition y was not accepted. There is always going to be complaining about the admissions process. TJ is a public school that is meant to serve the population that is advanced and enjoys STEM. Your version of who should be accepted based on classes is simply different then what the administration thinks.

Any complaints can safely be ignored when the admission standards are objective and merit based.

The current method is subjective and has only a hint of merit.

DP. The "prep books for the quant Q" are laughable and are basically a scam. They are expensive and absolutely worthless, if you look at them instead of just tout their existence. The prep from they-who-shall-not-be-named was invaluable, the proof was on their website.

TJ test prep at cutie was a $300 module over a few weeks.

Many parents spent far more than a few hundred dollars for TJ test prep.

$2120
https://plcprep.com/1-on-1_tutoring.php

$200-300 per hour
https://www.principiatutors.com/our-pricing

$625
https://fairfaxcollegiate.com/test-prep/tjhsst-prep

$1000+ including practice tests
https://web.archive.org/web/20190411164031/http://katedalby.com/tj-admissions-prep/

$800 self paced
$2400 small group
https://www.tjtestprep.com/

$1950
https://www.principiatutors.com/tj-sps-pse-prep

$6985+ signature program that runs over two years “pass any test for admission into specialized programs like AOS/AET and TJ”
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/f3476daf-2f3a-478e-9e4a-0f297817f6fc/2024-2025%20Curie%20Academic%20Year%20Schedule%20(10.20..pdf

The TJ test prep module at Curie was $300. Curie is the test prep everyone seems to be offended by. It's a classroom setting not one on one tutoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does TJ automatically accept the top 1.5% of each middle school? When you have many more than 1.5% taking the same classes and getting all A’s, what happens next?

The top 1.5% doesn't refer to GPA or courses taken.
All kids applying to TJ write a bunch of personal essays and a problem solving essay. The essays are graded, and the kids' scores are based on the essay scores, unweighted GPA, and experience factors (FARMS, IEP, ESOL). The unweighted GPA is not a huge factor, and they don't even look at courses taken or math level.

If a school has 600 8th graders, then it is guaranteed 1.5% of 600 = 9 TJ spots. The 9 kids with the highest scores are offered admissions.

But the highest scores are not the smartest or most prepared, due to the new system eliminating math level, objective testing, courses taken and teacher recommendations, correct?

That is correct. They may be the smartest. They may not be. The ranking is mostly based on the essays and experience factors.

+1

The idea was to get as close to a lottery as possible, which was the solution that the FCPS board tried to push the hardest.

Put a low threshold so that many would qualify and then try to keep the information available on the student to the minimum possible. Then, you get closer to the desired "should represent FCPS demographics". The main problem for FCPS board from achieving this is because of self selection bias and the pool of students who are applying do not represent FCPS demographics.

Just like most opportunists who took advantage of the riots in 2020 to pursue their own interests, FCPS board did the same.

Not really.. The idea was to address the rampant cheating that had tainted selection since many were buying early access to the entrance exam.

I am sorry your child did not get in. Please do not be bitter, as it would impact your child.

I understand your frustration and why you are agitated, but calm down for your kids sake.

There were test banks at certain prep schools with questions kids memorized and told the schools. The test banks gave the students at those schools an advantage. We have seen issues with the AMC tests along these lines as well. MathCounts reminds parents to not take pictures of questions and post them because there are kids in other sections taking the tests later. There is plenty of evidence of cheating/unfair advantages in higher level math competitions and tests.

as fictional as your stories are, can you dare to name one prep school that did this?

DP but wasn’t it Curie? They used to post the names of all their students who got accepted to TJ and it was close to if not over 100 students every year until the criteria changed.

It was one year. They did that one year and the parents were furious to see their kids names in the newspaper identified as having prepped since 3rd grade.

Some students admitted to [bold]memorizing[/bold] and providing questions back to Curie to include in the test bank. That was the year that the Quant test was dropped. The suspicion is that other programs were doing something similar but had not had the same level of success.

you have a cite for this?

There is no way to know if the students who were named had prepped since 3rd grade, the listing only included them in the specific program to prepare for the TJ test that year. There is speculation that many of the kids participated in enrichment programs for a long time. I could care less about that. My kid does math enichment because he enjoys it. Does it help him in school? Yes. Will it help him with whatever test TJ admission uses? Yes. There is no way to remove that element.

Creating a test bank of used questions is a step above enrichment. The test company was not doing its job in adjusting the test on an annual basis, which allowed the test bank to be more useful. There were posts that kids had studied the exact questions that were on the exam, that is a failure of the company. That said, kids were given a huge edge if they were willing to pay a good amount of money to participate in a specific program to gain an advantage.

The"good amount of money" in question is $300. That's what you pay for test prep above the enrichment.

This isn't the SAT or ACT or LSAT or GRE where there are test books available and prep classes are commonplace. It isn't even the tests used by private schools that have tutors and prep programs. It was a test for a specific high school that is supposed to serve all of the kids in the area, not just kids who have access to schools with test banks. You cannot replace the Quant with something used at school because the vast majority of the kids applying to TJ should be passing advanced on their math SOL. Requiring an advanced pass on the math SOL would not remove most of the kids and the scores on the math SOLs for the Honors math classes in MS tend to average high. They really won't help with discriminating between students.

The SHSAT exists and pro books exist for it. There were prep books for the TJ test and quant Q. The prep part of this is the easiest part. Use the PSAT of you want something ubiquitous. That's what they use now for froshmore admissions.

And even under that system there were parents complaining about who was accepted and chagrin that genius child from school X who participated in national competition y was not accepted. There is always going to be complaining about the admissions process. TJ is a public school that is meant to serve the population that is advanced and enjoys STEM. Your version of who should be accepted based on classes is simply different then what the administration thinks.

Any complaints can safely be ignored when the admission standards are objective and merit based.

The current method is subjective and has only a hint of merit.

DP. The "prep books for the quant Q" are laughable and are basically a scam. They are expensive and absolutely worthless, if you look at them instead of just tout their existence. The prep from they-who-shall-not-be-named was invaluable, the proof was on their website.

TJ test prep at cutie was a $300 module over a few weeks.

Many parents spent far more than a few hundred dollars for TJ test prep.

$2120
https://plcprep.com/1-on-1_tutoring.php

$200-300 per hour
https://www.principiatutors.com/our-pricing

$625
https://fairfaxcollegiate.com/test-prep/tjhsst-prep

$1000+ including practice tests
https://web.archive.org/web/20190411164031/http://katedalby.com/tj-admissions-prep/

$800 self paced
$2400 small group
https://www.tjtestprep.com/

$1950
https://www.principiatutors.com/tj-sps-pse-prep

$6985+ signature program that runs over two years “pass any test for admission into specialized programs like AOS/AET and TJ”
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/f3476daf-2f3a-478e-9e4a-0f297817f6fc/2024-2025%20Curie%20Academic%20Year%20Schedule%20(10.20..pdf

The TJ test prep module at Curie was $300. Curie is the test prep everyone seems to be offended by. It's a classroom setting not one on one tutoring.

No, we are talking about all of the great lengths that parents would go to in order to give their kids a leg up. Years of prep, moving to be in the "right" school zone, counselors to determine the best activities, etc. Wealthy parents have the knowledge and means to game the system and the admissions reflected that.