Adolescence on Netflix

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that kid did incredibly. Very well acted on his part

I dunno.

I know a ton of tweens who could argue for hours and hours. Especially to avoid taking responsibility for things!

Yet I felt bad for him (as did the therapist), after he begged her to like him, even just a little bit.

Sucker

You’re being manipulated by a self-centered DARVO-ing narc.

DP

No, manipulated by a CHILD that we see as innocent and once was, but through bullying and neglect he turned into something else. It's OK to feel these normal human emotions.

I thought it was tough to look at it through Jamie's parents lens. I also felt it was a bit short. I would have liked to see more of the detective's son's story, he too was being bullied. I would have like to see more of Jade's story, she was being bullied. And we never saw the girls parents perspectives and what they learned about her actions as the catalyst to her murder.

Thank goodness you’re not a public defender and see how many irreversibly troubled and violent CHILDREN there are in this country and overseas. Yes, they do exist.

DP, but I agree these kids become irreversibly troubled and violent.

But I agree with PP that they are not born that way. They don't come out of the womb predisposed to murder people. There are factors that lead a kid down this path, and there are factors that can prevent a kid from turning into this kind of violent sociopath. The show isn't arguing that Jaime is redeemable or that he isn't to blame for the murder. It's showing how there are things this family, this school, and this community could have done to change what happened, and that the poor choices that led Jaime down that path weren't even particularly malicious or intentional.

I found it particularly heartbreaking in the last episode when the parents were talking about their own culpability, because I think they were right about the places where they failed, but they were talking about things that parents fail at all the time, ever day, despite best intentions. Jaime didn't take to sports early on, and they maybe didn't do a great job of helping him find other interests, so when he got into gaming and being into his computer, they were just happy he had a thing and bought him all his gear and didn't really think that hard about it. And you can see how maybe Jaime was a sensitive kid who needed more overt love and support from his dad, but his dad was not socialized to offer that and felt uncomfortable with it, and just kind of evaded it. Not because he didn't love his kid but because he didn't have the tools. And then when Jaime was staying up late on his computer every night, and his mom knows it and is telling him that it's late and he needs to go to sleep, but she never goes in and just says "hey, what is going on, what is troubling you, how can I help?" when in retrospect it's very clear he needed that intervention.

Kids are not born killers. I think some kids are born with more sensitive personalities, I think some people are more susceptible to rejection or ostracism and can have more severe emotional responses to it (I actually think I am one of those people, but I'm not a violent person). But we've created a culture, an education system, and attitudes about childhood and parenting that don't do a great job with those kids, that expect those children to just suck it up and deal, and it turns out this can result in very troubled, violent people who have these explosive emotions, who feel deep rage and alienation, and have no skills or support system for dealing them. These people are personally responsible for their actions, but as a society we should really be asking ourselves why we are producing so many people like this. We have culpability here too.

You clearly have no friends or family members with special needs kids who are honest about their fears and dreams with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that kid did incredibly. Very well acted on his part

I dunno.

I know a ton of tweens who could argue for hours and hours. Especially to avoid taking responsibility for things!

Yet I felt bad for him (as did the therapist), after he begged her to like him, even just a little bit.

Sucker

You’re being manipulated by a self-centered DARVO-ing narc.

DP

No, manipulated by a CHILD that we see as innocent and once was, but through bullying and neglect he turned into something else. It's OK to feel these normal human emotions.

I thought it was tough to look at it through Jamie's parents lens. I also felt it was a bit short. I would have liked to see more of the detective's son's story, he too was being bullied. I would have like to see more of Jade's story, she was being bullied. And we never saw the girls parents perspectives and what they learned about her actions as the catalyst to her murder.

Thank goodness you’re not a public defender and see how many irreversibly troubled and violent CHILDREN there are in this country and overseas. Yes, they do exist.

DP, but I agree these kids become irreversibly troubled and violent.

But I agree with PP that they are not born that way. They don't come out of the womb predisposed to murder people. There are factors that lead a kid down this path, and there are factors that can prevent a kid from turning into this kind of violent sociopath. The show isn't arguing that Jaime is redeemable or that he isn't to blame for the murder. It's showing how there are things this family, this school, and this community could have done to change what happened, and that the poor choices that led Jaime down that path weren't even particularly malicious or intentional.

I found it particularly heartbreaking in the last episode when the parents were talking about their own culpability, because I think they were right about the places where they failed, but they were talking about things that parents fail at all the time, ever day, despite best intentions. Jaime didn't take to sports early on, and they maybe didn't do a great job of helping him find other interests, so when he got into gaming and being into his computer, they were just happy he had a thing and bought him all his gear and didn't really think that hard about it. And you can see how maybe Jaime was a sensitive kid who needed more overt love and support from his dad, but his dad was not socialized to offer that and felt uncomfortable with it, and just kind of evaded it. Not because he didn't love his kid but because he didn't have the tools. And then when Jaime was staying up late on his computer every night, and his mom knows it and is telling him that it's late and he needs to go to sleep, but she never goes in and just says "hey, what is going on, what is troubling you, how can I help?" when in retrospect it's very clear he needed that intervention.

Kids are not born killers. I think some kids are born with more sensitive personalities, I think some people are more susceptible to rejection or ostracism and can have more severe emotional responses to it (I actually think I am one of those people, but I'm not a violent person). But we've created a culture, an education system, and attitudes about childhood and parenting that don't do a great job with those kids, that expect those children to just suck it up and deal, and it turns out this can result in very troubled, violent people who have these explosive emotions, who feel deep rage and alienation, and have no skills or support system for dealing them. These people are personally responsible for their actions, but as a society we should really be asking ourselves why we are producing so many people like this. We have culpability here too.

So a kid who was belligerently verbally abusing his court appointed therapist was not verbally abusing his mother when she wanted to take his screen time away?
Riiiight. Wishful thinking of how to parent a difficult “overly sensitive” child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that kid did incredibly. Very well acted on his part

I dunno.

I know a ton of tweens who could argue for hours and hours. Especially to avoid taking responsibility for things!

Yet I felt bad for him (as did the therapist), after he begged her to like him, even just a little bit.

Sucker

You’re being manipulated by a self-centered DARVO-ing narc.

DP

No, manipulated by a CHILD that we see as innocent and once was, but through bullying and neglect he turned into something else. It's OK to feel these normal human emotions.

I thought it was tough to look at it through Jamie's parents lens. I also felt it was a bit short. I would have liked to see more of the detective's son's story, he too was being bullied. I would have like to see more of Jade's story, she was being bullied. And we never saw the girls parents perspectives and what they learned about her actions as the catalyst to her murder.

Thank goodness you’re not a public defender and see how many irreversibly troubled and violent CHILDREN there are in this country and overseas. Yes, they do exist.

DP, but I agree these kids become irreversibly troubled and violent.

But I agree with PP that they are not born that way. They don't come out of the womb predisposed to murder people. There are factors that lead a kid down this path, and there are factors that can prevent a kid from turning into this kind of violent sociopath. The show isn't arguing that Jaime is redeemable or that he isn't to blame for the murder. It's showing how there are things this family, this school, and this community could have done to change what happened, and that the poor choices that led Jaime down that path weren't even particularly malicious or intentional.

I found it particularly heartbreaking in the last episode when the parents were talking about their own culpability, because I think they were right about the places where they failed, but they were talking about things that parents fail at all the time, ever day, despite best intentions. Jaime didn't take to sports early on, and they maybe didn't do a great job of helping him find other interests, so when he got into gaming and being into his computer, they were just happy he had a thing and bought him all his gear and didn't really think that hard about it. And you can see how maybe Jaime was a sensitive kid who needed more overt love and support from his dad, but his dad was not socialized to offer that and felt uncomfortable with it, and just kind of evaded it. Not because he didn't love his kid but because he didn't have the tools. And then when Jaime was staying up late on his computer every night, and his mom knows it and is telling him that it's late and he needs to go to sleep, but she never goes in and just says "hey, what is going on, what is troubling you, how can I help?" when in retrospect it's very clear he needed that intervention.

Kids are not born killers. I think some kids are born with more sensitive personalities, I think some people are more susceptible to rejection or ostracism and can have more severe emotional responses to it (I actually think I am one of those people, but I'm not a violent person). But we've created a culture, an education system, and attitudes about childhood and parenting that don't do a great job with those kids, that expect those children to just suck it up and deal, and it turns out this can result in very troubled, violent people who have these explosive emotions, who feel deep rage and alienation, and have no skills or support system for dealing them. These people are personally responsible for their actions, but as a society we should really be asking ourselves why we are producing so many people like this. We have culpability here too.

are you talking about aspergers and autism?

And yes, you come out of the womb with it, it is highly genetic, and dopamine hits (gaming) exacerbate the many symptoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

[Anonymous]

A person can be born with predispositions that could make them a killer one day. Yes.

But not everyone born with such predispositions becomes a killer. There are things we as a society can do to help people like this, prevent them from radicalizing or acting on their worst impulses.

It might have to be managed their entire lives, yes. But that would be worth it.

Parents need to know signs of problems and we also need to educate people on the risks associated with certain influences and experiences.

The PP who said it's nature and nurture is correct. But since we can't change nature, we have to work very hard on nurture. That means we need to be doing WAY more to address the influences of social media, bullying in schools, access to weapons, lack of mental health resources for families and schools, overexposure to screens and violent imagery, etc.

I don't think this show is making the argument that Jaime could have been a perfectly well-adjusted kid but for video games and social media. He's probably a troubled kid no matter what.

They are making the argument that Jaime might not have murdered a classmate if the adults and institutions around him had done more to limit his access to violent media, had supervised more of the behavior of his peer group, had intervened when there were major red flags about his behavior that got written off because, eh, a lot of kids spend all their free time gaming and chatting with friends online, a lot of kids seem angry and distant, etc.

You can't ever, ever give on kids like this. You have to keep working at it and reaching out, you have to keep exploring resources and trying.

You can't just wash your hands and say "eh, he was born a killer, nothing we could do."

[Anonymous]

FYI for the naïveté on this thread: it takes a non-mentally ill parent to ID their mentally ill child, and then hope the other parent, the mentally ill parent, doesn’t undermine treatment or everything.

Even then, you only have 18 years and need lots of money, time, energy and likely need to quit your job and career to care for said mentally ill child.

Then wait and see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are all the UK tabloids saying this is based on a story of a black 13 yo immigrant snapping and knifing a white girl?

Is that true? And the director chose to make the killer a white boy with mental issues?

No, it is not true. It's based on a general trend of many instances of young boys in this age group stabbing girls to death.

One of the creators of the show also played the boys father in the series. He's white, and from northern England. So it makes sense that they chose to create a story of a white family in a northern England town. This particular story is 100% fictionalized, not based on a particular killing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FYI for the naïveté on this thread: it takes a non-mentally ill parent to ID their mentally ill child, and then hope the other parent, the mentally ill parent, doesn’t undermine treatment or everything.

Even then, you only have 18 years and need lots of money, time, energy and likely need to quit your job and career to care for said mentally ill child.

Then wait and see.

It sounds like you are talking about your own experience, but as someone with a special needs child who is married to someone with the same issues, this is not the universal experience.

In our case, getting the parent support and treatment has also been critical. Also, my DH is not a murderer and presumable your spouse isn't either. So that by itself is evidence that a person with special needs or mental illness does not automatically become a murderer. Turns out there are things we can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

I totally disagree that there are evil babies .

Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FYI for the naïveté on this thread: it takes a non-mentally ill parent to ID their mentally ill child, and then hope the other parent, the mentally ill parent, doesn’t undermine treatment or everything.

Even then, you only have 18 years and need lots of money, time, energy and likely need to quit your job and career to care for said mentally ill child.

Then wait and see.

What? Why are you assuming every mentally ill child has at least one mentally ill parent? Haven't you noticed nobody needs to pass any tests to become a parent? Don't you know a parent can be fine and then have some event that they can't bounce back from and thus become mentally ill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing. I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization. He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI for the naïveté on this thread: it takes a non-mentally ill parent to ID their mentally ill child, and then hope the other parent, the mentally ill parent, doesn’t undermine treatment or everything.

Even then, you only have 18 years and need lots of money, time, energy and likely need to quit your job and career to care for said mentally ill child.

Then wait and see.

It sounds like you are talking about your own experience, but as someone with a special needs child who is married to someone with the same issues, this is not the universal experience.

In our case, getting the parent support and treatment has also been critical. Also, my DH is not a murderer and presumable your spouse isn't either. So that by itself is evidence that a person with special needs or mental illness does not automatically become a murderer. Turns out there are things we can do.

You’re both saying the same thing. The PPP goes further and that to do that you need the wherewithal, time, money and energy.

Half of USA kids don’t even have two parents in their home and never did.

Where does that leave those special needs kids and special needs parent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing.

I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization.

He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

Yes all true, once you determine yours dealing with someone volatile you walk on eggshells. Doctors included.

The rest of the family’s lives are over as now they have to coddle and cater to the most dysfunctional member.

Not uncommon. The murder part is but the rest is not.

[Anonymous]

No he does not clearly want love and acceptance.

He wants his way. Or else.