Is this an American mom thing or specific to my kids school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re at a DCPS and haven’t had this problem. I’m sure these types exist but it’s not the norm. Sounds like a private school type of thing?

this was my thought. or a suburban thing.

at our DCPS the competition goes the opposite way. like if you say your kid willingly eats lentils instead of kraft mac and cheese, people look at you like you have two heads.

Well looking at people like they have two heads because their kids eat lentils actually sounds in keeping with what OP is describing. It's still exclusionary in-group politics just using different metrics and behaviors.

There is a group like this at our school based on whether your kids do certain sports (and are good at them). Since my kid isn't into sports I will never be "in" with them even if our kids are friends or we have other things in common. Oh well. I don't actually want to discuss the quality of the 7U co-ed teams this fall so it's okay with me.

But I think it's hard when the whole school community is that way. I have a couple people at our school I'm friendly with and it makes it so much easier when there are school events or meetings and I don't have to feel like a total loner. I don't need to latch on to people or anything it's just nice to see one or two friendly faces. If I felt like it was impossible to form even these loose bonds because our family ate the "wrong" foods or some aspect of my parenting was deemed incorrect by the rest of the community that would be very stressful.

I don't think this is a private school thing or a suburban thing. This is human nature.

[Anonymous]

You can always say "I am just venting" to indicate you aren't looking for solutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like private school.

op - it is. is that the issue?
private schools in the uk are much cheaper so maybe different vibe slightly.

Yep. Lots of type A mothers who have read every single parenting book and are super competitive about parenting. My kids go to public school and I don't have this issue. Lots of really great families. Of course some aren't my cup of tea, but only one or two have that snobbery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently saw a friend who moved to the UK some years ago, and we discussed cultural differences. She said one thing that sticks out to her is Brits will complain about things or express dissatisfaction with something, but do nothing about it. Americans do see everything as a problem to be solved.

I think this is a cultural difference but disagree with your description because I think British people also solve problems all the time. It's not like British people are just falling apart unable to function -- they are as functional as Americans are on average. And there are plenty of Americans who struggle to solve problems in their own lives.

The distinction is about how people approach social interactions. I just think Americans will sometimes bring an almost professional problem-solving approach to social interactions whereas Brits (and people in many cultures) consider this rude and impersonal. Like I have no problem being a problem solver at work or at home but if I'm just chatting with someone outside the school or bump into a mom friend at the grocery store I don't have that mindset and we can complain or commiserate and it doesn't have to be results-oriented. Especially because a lot of the stuff we might commiserate on is not really a problem to be solved. A lot of parenting is just necessary drudgery and you can't fix that -- it's part of the deal.

I think many Americans refuse to accept this though -- the idea that some aspects of life just kind of suck and you have to put up with them or muddle through and there are no "hacks" or short cuts.

Also it seems like many American parents actually make parenting *harder* with all their "problem-solving." Often they invent problems that weren't there or impose impossible parameters on aspects of parenting that were a little hard but manageable. Like I actually think it's more productive to just complain a bit about how kids can sometimes be picky eaters and that's annoying and then move on. Like I'll say "ugh my kid asked for mac and cheese for dinner and then I made it and they wouldn't eat it so irritating" and the response will be "oh what you really need to do is be serving her more lentils -- did you know the nutritional content of mac and cheese is basically nil why don't you make all your bread products from scratch." Like that's not actually helpful.

That has not been my experience. If you said the thing about mac and cheese I would have not said anything about making lentils. I would have said yes that's frustrating.

I find your anaysis of American parents rather simplistic and wrong.

I only give 'advice' to other people I am close too. If you are an acquaintaince there is no reason to delve deeper on mac and cheese. That isn't even a problem!

So the op seeks closeness but Americans seek sharing information with close friends. By shutting us down you won't get the tribe you seek.

So OP's problem I guess is that she doesn't already have close friends in the US. OP just go back in time and develop close friendships with the other moms earlier so you would already be friends with them and then you wouldn't find their advice giving annoying. I guess.

Great advice. Totally fixed it.

Ah yes, sarcasm totally answers the question and solves all problems! I was explaining that for some Americans giving advice was a bonding experience. If she shuts it down than she is shutting down more intimacy.

Op does not have to 'go back in time' to make friends. The next time someone gives advice instead of shutting it down she could say 'I will try it or thanks for the suggestions' Then when the parent says they have a problem op can offer some advice.

I did notice pp that you didn't offer any advice only critical comments. If you find my suggestions so lame maybe try and give advice yourself? Or is this the best you can do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like private school.

op - it is. is that the issue?
private schools in the uk are much cheaper so maybe different vibe slightly.

Yep. Lots of type A mothers who have read every single parenting book and are super competitive about parenting. My kids go to public school and I don't have this issue. Lots of really great families. Of course some aren't my cup of tea, but only one or two have that snobbery.

I've had kids at both private and public and I find that there are competitive parents at both! Honestly, if they were that competitive they wouldn't be sharing their secrets!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe stop looking for friends at your children’s school and seek friendships organically wherever they happen. I don’t understand why so many people think their kids school is a friendship warehouse.

Some of my best friends were made at my children's schools. For SAHM it is one of the easiest ways to meet friends!

[Anonymous]

Stop venting. You’re a wet blanket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm from the UK and I've found that one real barrier to making friends here (or rather to having deeper friendships) has been this one - what seems to be cultural - difference around sharing parenting challenges. In the UK it's tacitly understood for the most part that if you share something that's hard about parenting, unless you specifically ask, you're not looking for advice but more so solidarity or to laugh about it or just to share and feel less alone or incompetent. Among the moms at my kids school I find almost universally that if i share something that's hard, they give me advice. For me personally it's a real barrier to friendships bc a. I often don't need or want advice per se and b. it sort of stops any kind of bonding or even really conversation in its tracks.
Is this an american cultural thing where if someone shares something hard it's assumed they want input or is my school different in some way? would love to find a tribe that I can laugh about my kids imitating youtubers rather than hear a 15 minute diatribe on how someone else is crushing it with not letting this happen.

But giving advice, to us is bonding! If you share something and I have experienced it too and 'solved' that shared problem than why are you against hearing solutions. It seems if you really want a tribe you have to lower your barriers or move back to England.

I am American and I find getting advice in response to just trying to commiserate about some difficult aspect of parenting extremely off-putting. I also think people who give a lot of advice often over-estimate their knowledge or assume that because they "solved" an issue like kids fighting bedtime or picky eating or potty training or whatever for their own kid that they are experts and should be telling others what to do. But what works for one kid often doesn't work for another and also solutions to problems like this are often very family specific -- it depends on your schedule and your marriage and the layout of your house and a bunch of factors that vary a lot. Often advice-givers ignore all these factors (because they think the problem got solved due to their expert parenting only) and will even argue with you if you say "no I can't do that" and then get mad at you because you won't take their advice when they are "just trying to help."

I guarantee there are people in your orbit you absolutely hate your advice-giving and just tolerate it out of politeness.

Maybe we are also tired of you complaining about the same issue over and over. Either stop complaining to us or do something! Btw, if I get the vibe that people don't want advice I stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently saw a friend who moved to the UK some years ago, and we discussed cultural differences. She said one thing that sticks out to her is Brits will complain about things or express dissatisfaction with something, but do nothing about it. Americans do see everything as a problem to be solved.

I think this is a cultural difference but disagree with your description because I think British people also solve problems all the time. It's not like British people are just falling apart unable to function -- they are as functional as Americans are on average. And there are plenty of Americans who struggle to solve problems in their own lives.

The distinction is about how people approach social interactions. I just think Americans will sometimes bring an almost professional problem-solving approach to social interactions whereas Brits (and people in many cultures) consider this rude and impersonal. Like I have no problem being a problem solver at work or at home but if I'm just chatting with someone outside the school or bump into a mom friend at the grocery store I don't have that mindset and we can complain or commiserate and it doesn't have to be results-oriented. Especially because a lot of the stuff we might commiserate on is not really a problem to be solved. A lot of parenting is just necessary drudgery and you can't fix that -- it's part of the deal.

I think many Americans refuse to accept this though -- the idea that some aspects of life just kind of suck and you have to put up with them or muddle through and there are no "hacks" or short cuts.

Also it seems like many American parents actually make parenting *harder* with all their "problem-solving." Often they invent problems that weren't there or impose impossible parameters on aspects of parenting that were a little hard but manageable. Like I actually think it's more productive to just complain a bit about how kids can sometimes be picky eaters and that's annoying and then move on. Like I'll say "ugh my kid asked for mac and cheese for dinner and then I made it and they wouldn't eat it so irritating" and the response will be "oh what you really need to do is be serving her more lentils -- did you know the nutritional content of mac and cheese is basically nil why don't you make all your bread products from scratch." Like that's not actually helpful.

That has not been my experience. If you said the thing about mac and cheese I would have not said anything about making lentils. I would have said yes that's frustrating.

I find your anaysis of American parents rather simplistic and wrong.

I only give 'advice' to other people I am close too. If you are an acquaintaince there is no reason to delve deeper on mac and cheese. That isn't even a problem!

So the op seeks closeness but Americans seek sharing information with close friends. By shutting us down you won't get the tribe you seek.

So OP's problem I guess is that she doesn't already have close friends in the US. OP just go back in time and develop close friendships with the other moms earlier so you would already be friends with them and then you wouldn't find their advice giving annoying. I guess.

Great advice. Totally fixed it.

Ah yes, sarcasm totally answers the question and solves all problems! I was explaining that for some Americans giving advice was a bonding experience. If she shuts it down than she is shutting down more intimacy.

Op does not have to 'go back in time' to make friends. The next time someone gives advice instead of shutting it down she could say 'I will try it or thanks for the suggestions' Then when the parent says they have a problem op can offer some advice.

I did notice pp that you didn't offer any advice only critical comments. If you find my suggestions so lame maybe try and give advice yourself? Or is this the best you can do?

I think the issue with the bolded is that often in communities that are status-conscious and socially competitive the people doling out advice will never admit they have a problem. You will never be in a position to help them or know more than them.

This has been my experience in a community similar to what OP describes (public school but similarly competitive environment with a lot of people quick to tell you what you need to do or how you're doing something wrong even if you are just making a joke or cheerfully complaining about being tired). I was very good natured about all of this for about a year figuring that exactly what you described would happen -- I'd be gracious about receiving their advice and stay friendly and then eventually they'd let down their guard with me and I could return the favor.

The guard never came down. I'm not dying to give anyone parenting advice but I've noticed no one here will ever admit to struggling with anything or having any problems related to their kids. At all. You also are not allowed to complain about anything school related unless it's one of a handful of things that people (not me) have agreed are the things you're allowed to complain about. And the weird thing for me is that those aren't even things that bother me. Like one of the things you're allowed to complain about is the traffic near the school and the parking and drop-off situation in the morning. But it honestly doesn't seem that bad to me. A little chaotic at times but I've never felt unsafe. Yet when people complain about this I'll nod along and say "yeah it's not great" or "agreed they should develop a better system" or whatever because this is obviously very important to people.

But if you complain about something not on this short list then your complaining is not welcome.

It's a very weird environment. At this point my kid is halfway through and I'm starting to just look forward to no longer being an elementary parent. I'm sure middle school and high school will have their own issues but it seems like there is less forced socializing with other parents at the school once the kids are a bit more independent and I look forward to that.

[Anonymous]

It sounds more specific to the school. You should stop complaining so much about parenting to people you meet. I find it better to complain about the school instead. Best of luck to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:US has a more individual-effort and community-effort culture than UK. People take action to achieve goals, not just moan about it and wait for the government to eventually wander by and fix things.

When someone here hears you have a problem, they assume you want to improve your situation if you can, and are willing to try something.

This is the typical DMV obnoxious parent/ person response to everything- we are better than you attitude. Just look around you and see how many things are a problem here and not solved yet, in our own country - before lecturing others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:US has a more individual-effort and community-effort culture than UK. People take action to achieve goals, not just moan about it and wait for the government to eventually wander by and fix things.

When someone here hears you have a problem, they assume you want to improve your situation if you can, and are willing to try something.

This is the typical DMV obnoxious parent/ person response to everything- we are better than you attitude. Just look around you and see how many things are a problem here and not solved yet, in our own country - before lecturing others.

This is something I always think when I get unsolicited (and unwanted) advice from people. Nine times out of ten they have some obvious problem in their own life they could be addressing but I am too polite to point this out.

No I do not want parenting advice from the mom of a kid I saw chanting "weasel" at another kid during a field trip last year. You need to mind your own house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re at a DCPS and haven’t had this problem. I’m sure these types exist but it’s not the norm. Sounds like a private school type of thing?

this was my thought. or a suburban thing.

at our DCPS the competition goes the opposite way. like if you say your kid willingly eats lentils instead of kraft mac and cheese, people look at you like you have two heads.

Well looking at people like they have two heads because their kids eat lentils actually sounds in keeping with what OP is describing. It's still exclusionary in-group politics just using different metrics and behaviors.

There is a group like this at our school based on whether your kids do certain sports (and are good at them). Since my kid isn't into sports I will never be "in" with them even if our kids are friends or we have other things in common. Oh well. I don't actually want to discuss the quality of the 7U co-ed teams this fall so it's okay with me.

But I think it's hard when the whole school community is that way. I have a couple people at our school I'm friendly with and it makes it so much easier when there are school events or meetings and I don't have to feel like a total loner. I don't need to latch on to people or anything it's just nice to see one or two friendly faces. If I felt like it was impossible to form even these loose bonds because our family ate the "wrong" foods or some aspect of my parenting was deemed incorrect by the rest of the community that would be very stressful.

I don't think this is a private school thing or a suburban thing. This is human nature.

I guess what I was trying to say is that it's much more common to be among parents commiserating about their kids talking like the YouTube influencers they watch all the time. I think op would have a lot of company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s a DC thing where many of us have wonky policy backgrounds and see parenting as a series of problems to be solved. I think you just have to keep trying and find your people. I have one mom friend who I enjoy because we have the same perspective on schools - we’re both kind if tiger-parenty, which is VERY frowned upon in our neighborhood (apparently you’re supposed to go straight from “play based” schools to your child being naturally “advanced,” with no effort). I have another mom friend who shares my take on the nature of tween boys. But a lot of mom friends in between where I would never broach any parenting subject at all, because I don’t know what’s a hot issue with them.

Another cultural aspect is that Americans don’t always understand “taking the piss” … especially about kids! That’s my form of humor personally (maybe thanks to Grandma from Dover?) but a lot of Americans don’t get it. If I heard you complain about your youtuber kids I would get it! But there are a lot of, erm, humor impaired people around here.

op - haha you get it!
yes i find if i ever do the british thing of being honest (eg saying that some of my kids art is terrible and deserves to go in the bin immediately) I get a lot of raised eyebrows.

I got so much flack the other day for laughing about my kid’s aspirations for the NBA. I don’t laugh at him, but I don’t think this is plausible, they acted like I was insulting him and the worst mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s a DC thing where many of us have wonky policy backgrounds and see parenting as a series of problems to be solved. I think you just have to keep trying and find your people. I have one mom friend who I enjoy because we have the same perspective on schools - we’re both kind if tiger-parenty, which is VERY frowned upon in our neighborhood (apparently you’re supposed to go straight from “play based” schools to your child being naturally “advanced,” with no effort). I have another mom friend who shares my take on the nature of tween boys. But a lot of mom friends in between where I would never broach any parenting subject at all, because I don’t know what’s a hot issue with them.

Another cultural aspect is that Americans don’t always understand “taking the piss” … especially about kids! That’s my form of humor personally (maybe thanks to Grandma from Dover?) but a lot of Americans don’t get it. If I heard you complain about your youtuber kids I would get it! But there are a lot of, erm, humor impaired people around here.

op - haha you get it!
yes i find if i ever do the british thing of being honest (eg saying that some of my kids art is terrible and deserves to go in the bin immediately) I get a lot of raised eyebrows.

I got so much flack the other day for laughing about my kid’s aspirations for the NBA. I don’t laugh at him, but I don’t think this is plausible, they acted like I was insulting him and the worst mom.

Some people are extremely sensitive to this kind of thing. I think it's a pendulum swing from how many of us were parented in the 80s and 90s where there was more sarcasm and meanness directed at kids. Like in the 90s I remember it not being that uncommon for parents and teachers to mock kids in a way that would absolutely not be okay not (and I'm glad for this -- mocking is immature bully behavior).

But I think some people have swung so far that they aren't able to listen to any parent say anything about their kid that could be interpreted as negative or mean. Including like a gentle joke (out of your kids hearing) about their NBA aspirations. Recently my kid (age 7) stated that she would like to attend an Ivy League school. To her I told her that I support this goal and think that if she keeps working hard she will wind up somewhere great because I know she's smart and curious and dedicated (and I meant every word). But to my husband I joked that I'm not sure "multiplication is stupid" is the statement of a future Yalie. I still believe in my kid -- I was just making a joking complaint about her recent bad attitude about math. But I wouldn't say this to anyone outside my husband because people are touchy and they might take me to be putting down my kid or think that I say stuff like that TO her.