Tim Carney in the Post: The Ideal Number of Kids is Four (at a minimum)

[Anonymous]

He sounds like a shitty parent. Leaving your elder children to parent your younger children is neglect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many many factors impact how hard or difficult parenting is. But undoubtedly, the difficulty goes up with the number of children. Sure, older kids help out a bit with younger kids and they do play together, but not really. Kids close in age play together, but not kids with a five, 10 year age gap. Plus there is no way of getting around the mental load, and the schedules, and the paperwork, and the finances, and the emotional issues (the older kids can't manage that for the younger ones!), and the sports equipment, and practices, and games etc. etc. of. having five kids. It's harder, no doubt.

But moms of many kids should just own it. You wanted a big family and you have it! There are a lot of benefits of having many kids, but being easier is NOT one of them, so stop trying to make that argument.

One thing people don't talk about with the big age gaps (or even smaller ones) is that sometimes the kids do play together and it's not great for the younger kids because they become more mature quickly by learning from older siblings. I used to work in an elementary school and often the ringleaders of behaviors that seem too mature for the age (violence, bad language, sexual activity, drugs and alcohol) are younger children with siblings who are in MS or HS. That's where they are getting access to this stuff. Even in a house where parents are on top of not letting older sibs introduce sexual behavior or drugs/alcohol, younger kids might be privy to media or conversations that aren't really appropriate for them, whether it's playing with an older siblings video games or eavesdropping on an older sibling and friends talking about sex or drinking.

Just as older siblings in large families are often parentified, robbing them of the innocence of childhood, so too are younger kids often robbed of their innocence and youth by being expected to hang with much older children regularly, without parent supervision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of five here. It is 100 percent easier to have 5 kids than 3. I found 3 the absolute hardest. Now my older kids entertain and help with the younger kids. The year my third was born was the least happy year of my life. I am now the happiest I have ever been since becoming a mom with my fifth almost turning one. I am way more relaxed and it is 100 percent true that older kids help so much. For example on Saturday mornings I will wake up and my 12 year old has changed my toddler's diaper, turned on his cartoon, and gotten him a bowl of cheerios while I lounge in bed with DH.

What I am looking forward to is parents of 2-3 kids trying to explain why those of us with 4+ don't actually know what we are talking about when we say it's easier and we are happier than you all.

Oh and PS my career is on fire.

Like going down in flames? LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But how does the 12 yr old feel about it?

great - she's happy as a clam and is often offering to help even when I don't need it.

You won't know she is happy as a clam until she grows up. She might be an extreme people pleaser.

I am 100 percent certain she's happy, because I somehow miraculously still parent despite having 5 kids. She's an A+ student with a blossoming social life and extracurriculars and even went on a solo trip with just DH and myself for her birthday. Often in the evenings with sit alone with just her and chat about life. Because again, it's a myth you can't find time to parent despite having many kids. Right now she's laughing in the front yard playing with 2 of her 4 siblings.

But I am not surprised, again, that the people with 1 or 2 kids think they know better than those of us with big families.

Np. Sounds like me. I’m not an extreme people pleaser, just a “good girl.”

I love big families. When done right, it’s an amazing way to grow up. And pitching in is good for kids. But seriously, please rethink the changing your kid’s diaper while you lounge. It’s one thing to change a diaper when mom is clearly busy and the younger sibling is crying. Doing it while you lounge and your kid can’t is not just normal pitching in.

Hoping you’re trolling…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of five here. It is 100 percent easier to have 5 kids than 3. I found 3 the absolute hardest. Now my older kids entertain and help with the younger kids. The year my third was born was the least happy year of my life. I am now the happiest I have ever been since becoming a mom with my fifth almost turning one. I am way more relaxed and it is 100 percent true that older kids help so much. For example on Saturday mornings I will wake up and my 12 year old has changed my toddler's diaper, turned on his cartoon, and gotten him a bowl of cheerios while I lounge in bed with DH.

What I am looking forward to is parents of 2-3 kids trying to explain why those of us with 4+ don't actually know what we are talking about when we say it's easier and we are happier than you all.

Of course parenting is easier if you check out and dgaf. Not really a flex, but at least 30% self-aware, and that's got to count for . . . something.

sorry you don't get to relax saturday mornings?

I wouldn't find not knowing if my kids had eaten or were sitting in their own filth relaxing, but it takes all kinds.

thankfully not something I have to worry about with older kids that help!

If you are sleeping in and not even getting up to check if your young children are clean or fed, your older kids are not actually helping. You've made it their job and fully delegated the care of those kids to them unless and until you decide to tap in. That's parentification, not being a helpful sibling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But how does the 12 yr old feel about it?

great - she's happy as a clam and is often offering to help even when I don't need it.

You won't know she is happy as a clam until she grows up. She might be an extreme people pleaser.

Children can turn into people
Pleasers for various reasons. Previously, it was normal for older siblings to help with younger. I was basically the built in babysitter for my brother who is 10years younger than me. Hated it then but I'm so happy for the experience. I know a lot about children and even ended up becoming a preschool teacher bc it felt so natural 😅 I only have 1 child but I wish I had 5. Maybe next lifetime...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many many factors impact how hard or difficult parenting is. But undoubtedly, the difficulty goes up with the number of children. Sure, older kids help out a bit with younger kids and they do play together, but not really. Kids close in age play together, but not kids with a five, 10 year age gap. Plus there is no way of getting around the mental load, and the schedules, and the paperwork, and the finances, and the emotional issues (the older kids can't manage that for the younger ones!), and the sports equipment, and practices, and games etc. etc. of. having five kids. It's harder, no doubt.

But moms of many kids should just own it. You wanted a big family and you have it! There are a lot of benefits of having many kids, but being easier is NOT one of them, so stop trying to make that argument.

Children with 5-10 year age gaps stilly play with each other!! It has many benefits. See Montessori method.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many many factors impact how hard or difficult parenting is. But undoubtedly, the difficulty goes up with the number of children. Sure, older kids help out a bit with younger kids and they do play together, but not really. Kids close in age play together, but not kids with a five, 10 year age gap. Plus there is no way of getting around the mental load, and the schedules, and the paperwork, and the finances, and the emotional issues (the older kids can't manage that for the younger ones!), and the sports equipment, and practices, and games etc. etc. of. having five kids. It's harder, no doubt.

But moms of many kids should just own it. You wanted a big family and you have it! There are a lot of benefits of having many kids, but being easier is NOT one of them, so stop trying to make that argument.

Children with 5-10 year age gaps stilly play with each other!! It has many benefits. See Montessori method.

At this age gap, they are not “playing together”, the older one is entertaining with the younger one. A 10 or a 15 year old are playing with a 5 year old, the same way an adult would play with a 5 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But how does the 12 yr old feel about it?

great - she's happy as a clam and is often offering to help even when I don't need it.

You won't know she is happy as a clam until she grows up. She might be an extreme people pleaser.

I am 100 percent certain she's happy, because I somehow miraculously still parent despite having 5 kids. She's an A+ student with a blossoming social life and extracurriculars and even went on a solo trip with just DH and myself for her birthday. Often in the evenings with sit alone with just her and chat about life. Because again, it's a myth you can't find time to parent despite having many kids. Right now she's laughing in the front yard playing with 2 of her 4 siblings.

But I am not surprised, again, that the people with 1 or 2 kids think they know better than those of us with big families.

NP. I was your twelve-year-old, including the straight As, the doing the work of the parents, and the offering to help. Don’t delude yourself.

FWIW, I grew up in a community filled with large families. I know almost nobody from that community who has had a large family. I know literally no eldest daughters (like me) who have. Not a single eldest daughter of a large family that I know has had more than two kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He sounds like a shitty parent. Leaving your elder children to parent your younger children is neglect.

It is abusive and shows incredible lack of boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many many factors impact how hard or difficult parenting is. But undoubtedly, the difficulty goes up with the number of children. Sure, older kids help out a bit with younger kids and they do play together, but not really. Kids close in age play together, but not kids with a five, 10 year age gap. Plus there is no way of getting around the mental load, and the schedules, and the paperwork, and the finances, and the emotional issues (the older kids can't manage that for the younger ones!), and the sports equipment, and practices, and games etc. etc. of. having five kids. It's harder, no doubt.

But moms of many kids should just own it. You wanted a big family and you have it! There are a lot of benefits of having many kids, but being easier is NOT one of them, so stop trying to make that argument.

Children with 5-10 year age gaps stilly play with each other!! It has many benefits. See Montessori method.

At this age gap, they are not “playing together”, the older one is entertaining with the younger one. A 10 or a 15 year old are playing with a 5 year old, the same way an adult would play with a 5 year old.

Oh my gosh people. Do none of you have experience with actual kids? By far the kids who grow up the fastest, in general, are only children. And I’m not saying people should have 1, or 2, or any number of kids. But seriously, my 14 year plays with my 5 year old a lot and it’s good for both of them. It keeps the 14 year old young and the 5 year old wants to do everything his older brother does. And yea there are negatives as well, which is that the older one doesn’t get as many tailored activities for teens like trips to more grown up places, and the younger one knows curse words.

But this whole debate is idiotic and most of the responses here are idiotic as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many many factors impact how hard or difficult parenting is. But undoubtedly, the difficulty goes up with the number of children. Sure, older kids help out a bit with younger kids and they do play together, but not really. Kids close in age play together, but not kids with a five, 10 year age gap. Plus there is no way of getting around the mental load, and the schedules, and the paperwork, and the finances, and the emotional issues (the older kids can't manage that for the younger ones!), and the sports equipment, and practices, and games etc. etc. of. having five kids. It's harder, no doubt.

But moms of many kids should just own it. You wanted a big family and you have it! There are a lot of benefits of having many kids, but being easier is NOT one of them, so stop trying to make that argument.

Children with 5-10 year age gaps stilly play with each other!! It has many benefits. See Montessori method.

At this age gap, they are not “playing together”, the older one is entertaining with the younger one. A 10 or a 15 year old are playing with a 5 year old, the same way an adult would play with a 5 year old.

Oh my gosh people. Do none of you have experience with actual kids? By far the kids who grow up the fastest, in general, are only children. And I’m not saying people should have 1, or 2, or any number of kids. But seriously, my 14 year plays with my 5 year old a lot and it’s good for both of them. It keeps the 14 year old young and the 5 year old wants to do everything his older brother does. And yea there are negatives as well, which is that the older one doesn’t get as many tailored activities for teens like trips to more grown up places, and the younger one knows curse words.

But this whole debate is idiotic and most of the responses here are idiotic as well.

Your 5 yo knows curse words and you say that only children grow up fastest? LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But how does the 12 yr old feel about it?

great - she's happy as a clam and is often offering to help even when I don't need it.

You won't know she is happy as a clam until she grows up. She might be an extreme people pleaser.

Agree. That's how she gets your attention - by being the perfect little parent helper.

I’m the youngest of four. My oldest siblings didn’t have to “raise” me but my sister, who’s the oldest, was desperate for a baby sister and in so many pictures when I was a baby, she’s holding me with a huge grin. We’re still super close today and she has three kids of her own. She loved being a big sister - I think you’re projecting a lot of your own defensiveness onto larger families. The second born in my family is one of my brothers, and he’s an amazing father also to three kids. He’s actually a lot more involved than his wife and is always doing fun things with his kids. They both grew up to love kids. My other brother and I - numbers three and four - have less patience with kids because we didn’t really grow up with young kids around us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many many factors impact how hard or difficult parenting is. But undoubtedly, the difficulty goes up with the number of children. Sure, older kids help out a bit with younger kids and they do play together, but not really. Kids close in age play together, but not kids with a five, 10 year age gap. Plus there is no way of getting around the mental load, and the schedules, and the paperwork, and the finances, and the emotional issues (the older kids can't manage that for the younger ones!), and the sports equipment, and practices, and games etc. etc. of. having five kids. It's harder, no doubt.

But moms of many kids should just own it. You wanted a big family and you have it! There are a lot of benefits of having many kids, but being easier is NOT one of them, so stop trying to make that argument.

Children with 5-10 year age gaps stilly play with each other!! It has many benefits. See Montessori method.

At this age gap, they are not “playing together”, the older one is entertaining with the younger one. A 10 or a 15 year old are playing with a 5 year old, the same way an adult would play with a 5 year old.

Oh my gosh people. Do none of you have experience with actual kids? By far the kids who grow up the fastest, in general, are only children. And I’m not saying people should have 1, or 2, or any number of kids. But seriously, my 14 year plays with my 5 year old a lot and it’s good for both of them. It keeps the 14 year old young and the 5 year old wants to do everything his older brother does. And yea there are negatives as well, which is that the older one doesn’t get as many tailored activities for teens like trips to more grown up places, and the younger one knows curse words.

But this whole debate is idiotic and most of the responses here are idiotic as well.

Huh. I don't really care how many kids other people have, but I do have an only child and I have been told that she is more sheltered and less mature than other kids in her grade cohort. Her classmates with older siblings generally do "older" thing sooner, because they do them with their older siblings or are emulating older siblings. I'm not judging this, I actually think it's fine either way. Kids mature at different rates but most wind up in the same place. But I've never heard the argument that only children grow up faster. In my experience, the opposite is true.

The one exception is that I do think only children get good at interacting with adults faster, because they do it more. That might come off as precocious. But I don't think it matters in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many many factors impact how hard or difficult parenting is. But undoubtedly, the difficulty goes up with the number of children. Sure, older kids help out a bit with younger kids and they do play together, but not really. Kids close in age play together, but not kids with a five, 10 year age gap. Plus there is no way of getting around the mental load, and the schedules, and the paperwork, and the finances, and the emotional issues (the older kids can't manage that for the younger ones!), and the sports equipment, and practices, and games etc. etc. of. having five kids. It's harder, no doubt.

But moms of many kids should just own it. You wanted a big family and you have it! There are a lot of benefits of having many kids, but being easier is NOT one of them, so stop trying to make that argument.

Children with 5-10 year age gaps stilly play with each other!! It has many benefits. See Montessori method.

At this age gap, they are not “playing together”, the older one is entertaining with the younger one. A 10 or a 15 year old are playing with a 5 year old, the same way an adult would play with a 5 year old.

Oh my gosh people. Do none of you have experience with actual kids? By far the kids who grow up the fastest, in general, are only children. And I’m not saying people should have 1, or 2, or any number of kids. But seriously, my 14 year plays with my 5 year old a lot and it’s good for both of them. It keeps the 14 year old young and the 5 year old wants to do everything his older brother does. And yea there are negatives as well, which is that the older one doesn’t get as many tailored activities for teens like trips to more grown up places, and the younger one knows curse words.

But this whole debate is idiotic and most of the responses here are idiotic as well.

Your 5 yo knows curse words and you say that only children grow up fastest? LOL.

I think there's lots of family sizes that work well, but I often find it funny what people tell me is true about my only child. She's, if anything, less mature than her peers (just like I was as an only).