Offering Support to Jewish Friends

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am appalled and heartbroken by the terrorist attack on Israel. The footage is horrendous and I am so sad for those families. I am not Jewish and wouldn’t think of offering condolences to my Jewish friends unless they have family in Israel or are from there. I agree that the dual loyalty trope is disturbing.

What is the dual loyalty trope?

That Jews aren’t loyal to their country of citizenship (here, the US) but only loyal to Israel or to each other. Trump has trotted this out many times. It’s also been used in other historical contexts - e.g. red scare- Jews are communists, disloyal to the US , etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am appalled and heartbroken by the terrorist attack on Israel. The footage is horrendous and I am so sad for those families. I am not Jewish and wouldn’t think of offering condolences to my Jewish friends unless they have family in Israel or are from there. I agree that the dual loyalty trope is disturbing.

What is the dual loyalty trope?

That Jews aren’t loyal to their country of citizenship (here, the US) but only loyal to Israel or to each other. Trump has trotted this out many times. It’s also been used in other historical contexts - e.g. red scare- Jews are communists, disloyal to the US , etc.

Ohh, thanks.
First time hearing it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am appalled and heartbroken by the terrorist attack on Israel. The footage is horrendous and I am so sad for those families. I am not Jewish and wouldn’t think of offering condolences to my Jewish friends unless they have family in Israel or are from there. I agree that the dual loyalty trope is disturbing.

What is the dual loyalty trope?

That Jews aren’t loyal to their country of citizenship (here, the US) but only loyal to Israel or to each other. Trump has trotted this out many times. It’s also been used in other historical contexts - e.g. red scare- Jews are communists, disloyal to the US , etc.

It's not assuming "dual loyalty" to think that Jews are more affected by this than other random ppl. Many of my friends have family or friends there or feel some connection. My parents are immigrants and I feel a connection to their country (not a dual loyalty or whatever).

Many are also worried about antisemitism on display and growing here in the US and elsewhere. So it is more personal and direct of an impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am appalled and heartbroken by the terrorist attack on Israel. The footage is horrendous and I am so sad for those families. I am not Jewish and wouldn’t think of offering condolences to my Jewish friends unless they have family in Israel or are from there. I agree that the dual loyalty trope is disturbing.

Same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an American Jew, have only been to Israel once and don't really have close family or friends who live there - and I've been a mess to be honest. Security is stepped up at our synagogue and even here in the USA, it's a stark reminder of how we're a hated people. It hurts and it's scary. I've really so much appreciated hearing from some friends who have reached out for support. But it's just been close friends who know or sense that I'm shaken up. It would be weird to hear from people far and wide though. Maybe the people who are don't that don't have many other Jewish friends, so you're the only one they can think of to reach out to?

Hoping this is resolved as quickly as possible, with as little loss of life as possible.

This^

[Anonymous]

I have family in the south of Israel and not one of my non Jewish friends reached out to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jew here. My non-Jewish friends and family didn't reach out to me after Pittsburgh or so far related to Israel, even though I work in a Jewish institution and regularly attend synagogue. My take after Pittsburgh was that, of course, everyone was appalled by what had happened, so I didn't really need anyone to specifically check on me, because I could assume they weren't supportive of massacring people. Would it have been nice for someone to ask me how I was doing after Pittsburgh? Absolutely. But I wasn't really hurt that nobody did, because there was no doubt in my mind that they were horrified.

The difference I feel with regard to the current situation in Israel is that not only has nobody checked in to see how I'm feeling about the situation or how my friends and coworkers who live there are doing, but that so many of my non-Jewish friends (and honestly some of my lefty/DSA Jewish friends) are offering up "nuanced" takes on the violence, as if there can be any justification for Hamas' slaughter. SO MANY of them are posting about oppression in Gaza without a WORD of sympathy for behe@ded Israeli babies or r@ped Israeli women or mut!lated Israeli grandparents. And saying "oh, Hamas is doing this because of XYZ Israeli policy" is f*ing excuses and victim blaming. There is NO excuse.

We can talk about Israeli policy toward Gaza and we can talk about US and international aid and we can talk about what Palestinian freedom without terrorism would/could possibly look like (not now, because I don't have the space in my heart for it), but we need to also talk about Jewish and Israeli pain. You want to add nuance to this war? Let's talk about the complicated relationship between Israel and the Jewish Diaspora. Let's talk about the balance between security and freedom. Let's talk about how we didn't want to be judged by President Trump and maybe Israel doesn't want to be judged by Bibi. Let's talk about how I have so many liberal Jewish friends (myself included) who support human rights and don't like the right wing government in Israel and also need Israel to exist, because of the Holocaust and because of Charlottesville and because of Pittsburgh. And I have so many liberal Jewish friends who have to bury their Jewishness in certain liberal spaces in order to advocate for others, because Jewish = Israel in those spaces and intersectionality is great, unless it's Jewish. It's HARD to want ALL THE THINGS at once, but here we are.

So, yes, I think the non-Jews need to say something and check in.

This is a wonderfully thoughtful post that completely captures my views until the very last line. I don't have the same feeling, though of course respect those who do. Is it nice for non-Jews to check in or say something? Yes - and I was really touched when one friend unexpectedly did today -- but I completely understand that it may be a minefield they may not want to get into. And, frankly, I suspect I have a few non-Jewish friends whose thoughts I probably would not want to hear right now. For the sake of those friendship, which span 20 years or more, I am probably better off just vaguely wondering if they are among those who don't see nuance, rather than have it confirmed.

And, to be honest, I don't really want to talk about it much anyway even if friends reached out. Any conversations would be either trite or dead-ends. I am just heartsick at the cruelty and savagery of Hamas and the loss of life on both sides, and the knowledge that there can be no winners here and that Israel will be blamed no matter what happens. I don't know how to explain this to my elementary school children. None of us should have to.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, can’t really see any moral ambiguity in this one. Catholic here who supports our Jewish neighbors and Israelis. Prayers for all the victims of this senseless terror and justice against the perpetrators.

[Anonymous]

As someone with a handful of Jewish friends, who deeply empathisizes with the pain and is enraged by hamas terrorism… yet also rarely posts on social media…

I feel somewhat harangued into reaching out or posting to show my support. It seeks showy/artificial as INEVER post on socials.

[Anonymous]

I am amazed at all the assumptions. I am Jewish and ties to Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Jewish, and the difference to me this time is that I have seen social media posts after this attack that specifically say “your silence is noticed”.

I'd be pretty much done with anyone who posts that.

It’s ridiculous. People posted that with regard to BLM and George Floyd. I thought it was ridiculous then and think it’s ridiculous now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a handful of Jewish friends, who deeply empathisizes with the pain and is enraged by hamas terrorism… yet also rarely posts on social media…

I feel somewhat harangued into reaching out or posting to show my support. It seeks showy/artificial as INEVER post on socials.

Sorry you feel that way. Did you feel that way after George Floyd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jew here. My non-Jewish friends and family didn't reach out to me after Pittsburgh or so far related to Israel, even though I work in a Jewish institution and regularly attend synagogue. My take after Pittsburgh was that, of course, everyone was appalled by what had happened, so I didn't really need anyone to specifically check on me, because I could assume they weren't supportive of massacring people. Would it have been nice for someone to ask me how I was doing after Pittsburgh? Absolutely. But I wasn't really hurt that nobody did, because there was no doubt in my mind that they were horrified.

The difference I feel with regard to the current situation in Israel is that not only has nobody checked in to see how I'm feeling about the situation or how my friends and coworkers who live there are doing, but that so many of my non-Jewish friends (and honestly some of my lefty/DSA Jewish friends) are offering up "nuanced" takes on the violence, as if there can be any justification for Hamas' slaughter. SO MANY of them are posting about oppression in Gaza without a WORD of sympathy for behe@ded Israeli babies or r@ped Israeli women or mut!lated Israeli grandparents. And saying "oh, Hamas is doing this because of XYZ Israeli policy" is f*ing excuses and victim blaming. There is NO excuse.

We can talk about Israeli policy toward Gaza and we can talk about US and international aid and we can talk about what Palestinian freedom without terrorism would/could possibly look like (not now, because I don't have the space in my heart for it), but we need to also talk about Jewish and Israeli pain. You want to add nuance to this war? Let's talk about the complicated relationship between Israel and the Jewish Diaspora. Let's talk about the balance between security and freedom. Let's talk about how we didn't want to be judged by President Trump and maybe Israel doesn't want to be judged by Bibi. Let's talk about how I have so many liberal Jewish friends (myself included) who support human rights and don't like the right wing government in Israel and also need Israel to exist, because of the Holocaust and because of Charlottesville and because of Pittsburgh. And I have so many liberal Jewish friends who have to bury their Jewishness in certain liberal spaces in order to advocate for others, because Jewish = Israel in those spaces and intersectionality is great, unless it's Jewish. It's HARD to want ALL THE THINGS at once, but here we are.

So, yes, I think the non-Jews need to say something and check in.

This is a wonderfully thoughtful post that completely captures my views until the very last line. I don't have the same feeling, though of course respect those who do. Is it nice for non-Jews to check in or say something? Yes - and I was really touched when one friend unexpectedly did today -- but I completely understand that it may be a minefield they may not want to get into. And, frankly, I suspect I have a few non-Jewish friends whose thoughts I probably would not want to hear right now. For the sake of those friendship, which span 20 years or more, I am probably better off just vaguely wondering if they are among those who don't see nuance, rather than have it confirmed.

And, to be honest, I don't really want to talk about it much anyway even if friends reached out. Any conversations would be either trite or dead-ends. I am just heartsick at the cruelty and savagery of Hamas and the loss of life on both sides, and the knowledge that there can be no winners here and that Israel will be blamed no matter what happens. I don't know how to explain this to my elementary school children. None of us should have to.

I pretty much agree with this. Because it’s such a mess of history and emotions I am fine if people process it their own way and don’t try to engage me. About the most conversation I’ve had about it with anyone is on the level of “horrible things are happening”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have family in Israel so I had appreciated friends saying to me: saying wow what is going on is horrible and how is your family. I see the Hamas supporters in the politics thread here that I should stop reading and I’m glad to know I’m not friends with people like that.

I know it's your pain speaking, but there are no Hamas supporters on DCUM. There are people who feel for non-violent Gaza Palestinians used as human shields, for whom Hamas cares nothing. It's like feeling sympathy for Russians who didn't want a war either but who are still used as cannon fodder. You can denounce the Russian government, the Israeli far-right, the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist networks... but it's only human to spare a thought for lives destroyed on all sides.

No, there is explicit antisemitism on DCUM. Sometimes the worst posts get taken down quickly, but someone put them up.

If silence = consent, and that's a bumper sticker that seems to apply to every other group, then your silence is noted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a handful of Jewish friends, who deeply empathisizes with the pain and is enraged by hamas terrorism… yet also rarely posts on social media…

I feel somewhat harangued into reaching out or posting to show my support. It seeks showy/artificial as INEVER post on socials.

Sorry you feel that way. Did you feel that way after George Floyd?

Yes.