Maret’s brand of progressive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


LOL nope try again. Kids don’t hear about straight sexual orientation in elementary school. But apparently now they are required to hear about all sorts of sexual orientation. Sex. Sexual Orientation. Gay. Straight. It needs to stay out of the elementary school setting. It’s not age appropriate.


So, you're fine with a book being read in elementary school where Larla lives her life with mom and dad. And then another book where Darla lives her life with her dad and dad. As long as it's just about living their normal, every day lives without using the words straight or gay?

Not the PP to which you are responding but yes, that's exactly what I think is appropriate, vs. an "Unapologetically Queer" poster in an elementary school classroom. And I also agree with the other PP who said that poster is fine for High school but not elementary. Why CAN'T the books, etc. just be representational of all different types of families and kids just grow up with it being the "normal" instead of the "now we have to OVER-represent because we have been under-represented for so long" mentality that a lot of identity politics seems to have now. My kids went to a DCPS elementary where there were a fair number of same sex families---they grew up surrounded by gay couples in our family friend group---"representation" was just an organic part of their lives.

If there is OVER-representation of LGBTQ characters now, then it's been going on for about 15 minutes. There's been OVER-representation of straight perspectives for about 1000 years. Calm down.

It’s not OVER representation if it’s the majority of the population - how many billion people are on earth now? Oh and it’s why you are here. Straight sex. Oh wait you probably believe we can produce asexually 🤭

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


LOL nope try again. Kids don’t hear about straight sexual orientation in elementary school. But apparently now they are required to hear about all sorts of sexual orientation. Sex. Sexual Orientation. Gay. Straight. It needs to stay out of the elementary school setting. It’s not age appropriate.


So, you're fine with a book being read in elementary school where Larla lives her life with mom and dad. And then another book where Darla lives her life with her dad and dad. As long as it's just about living their normal, every day lives without using the words straight or gay?

Not the PP to which you are responding but yes, that's exactly what I think is appropriate, vs. an "Unapologetically Queer" poster in an elementary school classroom. And I also agree with the other PP who said that poster is fine for High school but not elementary. Why CAN'T the books, etc. just be representational of all different types of families and kids just grow up with it being the "normal" instead of the "now we have to OVER-represent because we have been under-represented for so long" mentality that a lot of identity politics seems to have now. My kids went to a DCPS elementary where there were a fair number of same sex families---they grew up surrounded by gay couples in our family friend group---"representation" was just an organic part of their lives.

If there is OVER-representation of LGBTQ characters now, then it's been going on for about 15 minutes. There's been OVER-representation of straight perspectives for about 1000 years. Calm down.

It’s not OVER representation if it’s the majority of the population - how many billion people are on earth now? Oh and it’s why you are here. Straight sex. Oh wait you probably believe we can produce asexually 🤭

*reproduce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


LOL nope try again. Kids don’t hear about straight sexual orientation in elementary school. But apparently now they are required to hear about all sorts of sexual orientation. Sex. Sexual Orientation. Gay. Straight. It needs to stay out of the elementary school setting. It’s not age appropriate.


So, you're fine with a book being read in elementary school where Larla lives her life with mom and dad. And then another book where Darla lives her life with her dad and dad. As long as it's just about living their normal, every day lives without using the words straight or gay?

Not the PP to which you are responding but yes, that's exactly what I think is appropriate, vs. an "Unapologetically Queer" poster in an elementary school classroom. And I also agree with the other PP who said that poster is fine for High school but not elementary. Why CAN'T the books, etc. just be representational of all different types of families and kids just grow up with it being the "normal" instead of the "now we have to OVER-represent because we have been under-represented for so long" mentality that a lot of identity politics seems to have now. My kids went to a DCPS elementary where there were a fair number of same sex families---they grew up surrounded by gay couples in our family friend group---"representation" was just an organic part of their lives.

If there is OVER-representation of LGBTQ characters now, then it's been going on for about 15 minutes. There's been OVER-representation of straight perspectives for about 1000 years. Calm down.

It’s not OVER representation if it’s the majority of the population - how many billion people are on earth now? Oh and it’s why you are here. Straight sex. Oh wait you probably believe we can produce asexually 🤭

It's a majority of the population, but not all of it. And yet seeing LGBTQ relationships represented in culture, let alone in schools, was almost completely unheard of. That's OVER representation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

OMG are you serious? They are being praised for perseverance and strength of character and grit etc etc in face of hardship which happens to be dealing with sexism and racism - not for being female or black. I’m female but I have accomplished nothing. Should they write a book about me praising my femaleness? Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

They did so through effort and determination. That is ultimately the praiseworthy part of what they did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

They did so through effort and determination. That is ultimately the praiseworthy part of what they did.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

OMG are you serious? They are being praised for perseverance and strength of character and grit etc etc in face of hardship which happens to be dealing with sexism and racism - not for being female or black. I’m female but I have accomplished nothing. Should they write a book about me praising my femaleness? Lol

Are you honestly claiming that LGBTQ people don't face hardships when they deal with discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

OMG are you serious? They are being praised for perseverance and strength of character and grit etc etc in face of hardship which happens to be dealing with sexism and racism - not for being female or black. I’m female but I have accomplished nothing. Should they write a book about me praising my femaleness? Lol

Are you honestly claiming that LGBTQ people don't face hardships when they deal with discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation?

m

Are you honestly this idiotic? Who said that? Nobody in this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

They did so through effort and determination. That is ultimately the praiseworthy part of what they did.

Ok. And praise like "Unapologetically queer" is praise for the effort and determination it takes to face down discrimination based on sexual orientation. That's why they use the word "unapologetically." It's a reference to the bigotry that claims being queer is something to apologize for, and praising the strength it takes to overcome that discrimination every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

OMG are you serious? They are being praised for perseverance and strength of character and grit etc etc in face of hardship which happens to be dealing with sexism and racism - not for being female or black. I’m female but I have accomplished nothing. Should they write a book about me praising my femaleness? Lol

Are you honestly claiming that LGBTQ people don't face hardships when they deal with discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation?

m

Are you honestly this idiotic? Who said that? Nobody in this forum.

That's the implication - that the praise LGBTQ people receive is simply for being LGBTQ, when the reality is that the praise is for being LGBTQ in the face of discrimination.

Would you avoid an elementary school that had a "Girl Power" poster in the library?

[Anonymous]

Wow. 5 pages that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread. So someone may or may not have seen a poster in a library on a tour from probably 8 months ago. And then 5 pages of 3 people going back and forth with someone who thinks that it’s fine to have lgbtq people in kids’ books as long as they never use the words lgbtq (or straight) but just present it in a ‘normal, live your lives’ type of way. Which is probably most kids books anyway? So this all seems to be a lot of misplaced anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

OMG are you serious? They are being praised for perseverance and strength of character and grit etc etc in face of hardship which happens to be dealing with sexism and racism - not for being female or black. I’m female but I have accomplished nothing. Should they write a book about me praising my femaleness? Lol

Are you honestly claiming that LGBTQ people don't face hardships when they deal with discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation?

m

Are you honestly this idiotic? Who said that? Nobody in this forum.

That's the implication - that the praise LGBTQ people receive is simply for being LGBTQ, when the reality is that the praise is for being LGBTQ in the face of discrimination.

Would you avoid an elementary school that had a "Girl Power" poster in the library?

I am sure that the LGBTQ is living under the boot of oppression up there at Maret, so makes perfect sense now. Glad you were able to clear that up. I'm sure it's nothing like how progressives all like to move to cities to surround themselves with other progressives where they then imagine that they are in an existential fight against discrimination and bigotory, if not the KKK itself.

I would actually consider a "Girl Power" poster in a school library to be in extremely poor taste and would have serious doubts about the judgment that went into putting that up, unless it's an all girls school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

This. Also, there are all types of kids there but it is a progressive school. More power to them.

Not OP, but I think many parents are somewhat concerned about the extent to which progressive political sloganeering has become part of the educational environment. I don't think the concern is with queer people per se, but rather, having everything be such a main focus of time and attention. Of course, everyone wants their kids to be accepting and welcoming. That is not the same thing as having an environment where certain groups are essentially put on a pedestal, and then there is social pressure to be like that or to go out of your way to praise it (when other kids aren't getting that praise just for being who they happen to be).

The entire culture is designed to support cisgendered heterosexual relationships. Straight kids get validation for who they happen to be every day - that's the default in our culture. Every plotline in a movie where a man and a woman fall in love, every ad that shows an opposite sex couple, every story that talks about a family with a mom and a dad -- that's praise, and it's been the default for centuries. It's more than a little disingenuous to claim that straight kids are harmed when they aren't centered for 30 seconds.

This is just more progressive bs. Look around. The whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now. You are shunned for even questioning that. It’s a nice tactic, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. And, regardless, none of the other kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are just because they are straight. That is the problem.

Ok, let's assume that you're correct when you say "the whole LGBTQ community is valorized everywhere all the time now." (This ignores a slew of anti-trans legislation, book bans, shootings at gay clubs, but for kicks, let's pretend.) So? Valorizing the LGBTQ community isn't attacking another community. When the straight community isn't the center of the conversation, that isn't an attack or a put down. That's just "not being the center of the conversation" for a bit. It feels like oppression when you're used to special treatment, but it isn't.

Straight kids at school are constantly being told how awesome they are for being straight by literally every cultural institution in the country, including schools.

This is just not true in any meaningful sense. There is no explicit messaging to straight kids or families praising them for that aspect of their lives. You're argument is, at best, that it is baked in because it is the default, but saying that something is the default is very different from something being expressly praised. [b]If it's the default, it is unremarkable, and nobody cares.

Spoken like someone who is in the default.

So? That means what? My view doesn't count? That's the problem. You think one group's views should be devalued, and another group's views should be praised. Other people feel differently.

Your view counts. I'm saying that your perspective 1) isn't the only one around and 2) is shaped by the fact that you're the default. You don't experience life where a part of who you are is outside of the default, so constant support feels unremarkable, like nobody cares. A fish doesn't know it's wet.

Also, how exactly is one group being devalued? All I see is claims that LGBTQ perspectives are being praised. Why is praising LGBTQ relationships by definition devaluing straight relationships? That seems like a weird thing to claim.

Because by explicitly praising one but not the other means that the takeaway for kids is that one is special and better than than the other. This isn’t hard, if you have dealt with little kids for any amount of time.

So kids shouldn't hear praise about women leaders for breaking gender barriers? Or Black pioneers in scientific achievement for overcoming racial prejudice?

False analogy. The LGBTQ stuff isn’t about anything people have achieved through their own effort and determination, but rather a characteristic about themselves that is what it is. It’s like putting up signs praising blue eyes because only 2 out of 20 kids in class have blue eyes.

That's why I specifically said praise for "breaking gender barriers" and "overcoming racial prejudice." By your thinking, aren't those women leaders and Black scientists being praised for a characteristic about themselves -- for being female and/or Black?

OMG are you serious? They are being praised for perseverance and strength of character and grit etc etc in face of hardship which happens to be dealing with sexism and racism - not for being female or black. I’m female but I have accomplished nothing. Should they write a book about me praising my femaleness? Lol

Are you honestly claiming that LGBTQ people don't face hardships when they deal with discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation?

m

Are you honestly this idiotic? Who said that? Nobody in this forum.

That's the implication - that the praise LGBTQ people receive is simply for being LGBTQ, when the reality is that the praise is for being LGBTQ in the face of discrimination.

Would you avoid an elementary school that had a "Girl Power" poster in the library?

I am sure that the LGBTQ is living under the boot of oppression up there at Maret, so makes perfect sense now. Glad you were able to clear that up. I'm sure it's nothing like how progressives all like to move to cities to surround themselves with other progressives where they then imagine that they are in an existential fight against discrimination and bigotory, if not the KKK itself.

I would actually consider a "Girl Power" poster in a school library to be in extremely poor taste and would have serious doubts about the judgment that went into putting that up, unless it's an all girls school.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How progressive are they? Toured last year and saw some interesting things like a “Unapologetically Queer” in the elementary school library. Do they talk to elementary aged kids about gender identity? Any insight is appreciated.

Are you referring to an adult, a child, a poster, a book? What exactly did you see? And if anything being unapologetically queer bothers you, go elsewhere.

Ok, calm down. I see OP's concern - would a straight child be welcome?

That is the *stupidest* thing I have *ever* heard.