Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).

As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.

The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school

I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.

What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.

Another important distinction is Notre Dame is restricted early action not "plain" early action: kids can only apply to early other schools that are non-binding (so essentially state schools). So different than, say UVA non-restrictive EA, where a lot of kids at my child's HS apply EA, in addition to their binding ED app. So even though non-binding, kids can't apply to an Ivy or ED SLAC as well as Notre Dame REA.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Too conservative

LOL, I know some Catholics who refused to let their kids go there because it was too liberal.

Yeah but most normal high school kids don’t want to go to a Catholic college so the pool is just smaller.

That's right, most normal kids are not qualified.
You need to be a top student and exceptional.

And you still won’t want to go there unless you are from a Catholic family that has pushed it as the Catholic Harvard your whole life. Most people do not think of it as somewhere to apply because most people are not Catholic.

Not many people are hardcore bigots.
Religious affiliation is one of the many many factors like location, program offerings, prestige/ranking, size, public/private, cost, etc. etc.
Religious affiliation could be a down side for some people just like any of the factors, but it's just one of many.

Notre Dame was on top of my non-Catholic kid's list for Mendoza business program, sense of community(without being fratty) and security, student caring and service, and beautiful campus which felt the right size. DC wanted more urban setting schools, so most of the schools on the list were urban.
So location was the biggest downside for Notre Dame, but despite that, DC chose Notre Dame for all the factors combined.

That's fine but your child is an outlier. Outside of Catholic applicants attending Catholic schools, and students from the Midwest looking for an elite school relatively close to home, ND gets major points off both for being a very Catholic institution (perceived as more Catholic both in culture and institutionally than Georgetown, for instance) and location.

Sure, some kids might be drawn to the school for other reasons -- it's a high quality education and some people are less bothered by the weather an isolation. But that's true of any school. I know a student with great stats who had ASU in their top 5 choices because of the dance program. That doesn't mean ASU is magically more selective generally, it means it was a fit for one specific student.

lol comparing a T20 school Notre Dame and Mendoza to ASU and Dance is absurd.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).

As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.

The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school

I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.

What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.

Your numbers are kind of silly and made up. But even if they were true, which they are not, you are completely misunderstanding the impact of 1:1 yields at ED on overall admissions rate, which is what really drives the difference. This is why, yes, ED automatically lowers overall admissions rates. Your argument is certainly a novel one though…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).

As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.

The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school

I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.

What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.

Another important distinction is Notre Dame is restricted early action not "plain" early action: kids can only apply to early other schools that are non-binding (so essentially state schools). So different than, say UVA non-restrictive EA, where a lot of kids at my child's HS apply EA, in addition to their binding ED app. So even though non-binding, kids can't apply to an Ivy or ED SLAC as well as Notre Dame REA.

Notre Dame allows you to apply early to any private school you want — just not early decision. It is the SCEA monopoly of HYPS which prohibits applying early action to any private school — not Notre Dame or Georgetown. Hence you can apply to Notre Dame, Georgetown, Richmond, Macalester, USC etc. EA. The SCEA schools are downright evil in terms of their prohibiting other private early applications; Georgetown and Notre Dame are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).

As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.

The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school

I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.

What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.

Another important distinction is Notre Dame is restricted early action not "plain" early action: kids can only apply to early other schools that are non-binding (so essentially state schools). So different than, say UVA non-restrictive EA, where a lot of kids at my child's HS apply EA, in addition to their binding ED app. So even though non-binding, kids can't apply to an Ivy or ED SLAC as well as Notre Dame REA.

Notre Dame allows you to apply early to any private school you want — just not early decision. It is the SCEA monopoly of HYPS which prohibits applying early action to any private school — not Notre Dame or Georgetown. Hence you can apply to Notre Dame, Georgetown, Richmond, Macalester, USC etc. EA. The SCEA schools are downright evil in terms of their prohibiting other private early applications; Georgetown and Notre Dame are not.

Notre Dame is restrictive early action: "student applying Restrictive Early Action to Notre Dame may not apply to any college or university (private or public) in their binding Early Decision 1 program." Kids cannot apply to any ED schools or any SCEA schools. So, while less prohibitive than SCEA, way more restrictive than regular EA.

[Anonymous]

This is such a ridiculous thread. That Notre Dame has a slightly higher acceptance right than some of its peers doesn’t make it less selective because it says nothing about the quality of the application pool.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).

As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.

The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school

I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.

What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.

Another important distinction is Notre Dame is restricted early action not "plain" early action: kids can only apply to early other schools that are non-binding (so essentially state schools). So different than, say UVA non-restrictive EA, where a lot of kids at my child's HS apply EA, in addition to their binding ED app. So even though non-binding, kids can't apply to an Ivy or ED SLAC as well as Notre Dame REA.

Notre Dame allows you to apply early to any private school you want — just not early decision. It is the SCEA monopoly of HYPS which prohibits applying early action to any private school — not Notre Dame or Georgetown. Hence you can apply to Notre Dame, Georgetown, Richmond, Macalester, USC etc. EA. The SCEA schools are downright evil in terms of their prohibiting other private early applications; Georgetown and Notre Dame are not.

Notre Dame is restrictive early action: "student applying Restrictive Early Action to Notre Dame may not apply to any college or university (private or public) in their binding Early Decision 1 program." Kids cannot apply to any ED schools or any SCEA schools. So, while less prohibitive than SCEA, way more restrictive than regular EA.

To be clear: from Notre Dame’s standpoint, you can apply to SCEA schools. It is the SCEA schools which prohibit applying to one of them and Notre Dame. This is not Notre Dame’s fault; it is the SCEA schools’ fault. REA is much less prohibitive than SCEA. Moreover, it is only “way more restrictive than regular EA” if one is otherwise applying ED, which, statistically speaking, is the minority of applicants. Thus, for most applicants, there is no difference between REA and EA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).

As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.

The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school

I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.

What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.

Another important distinction is Notre Dame is restricted early action not "plain" early action: kids can only apply to early other schools that are non-binding (so essentially state schools). So different than, say UVA non-restrictive EA, where a lot of kids at my child's HS apply EA, in addition to their binding ED app. So even though non-binding, kids can't apply to an Ivy or ED SLAC as well as Notre Dame REA.

Notre Dame allows you to apply early to any private school you want — just not early decision. It is the SCEA monopoly of HYPS which prohibits applying early action to any private school — not Notre Dame or Georgetown. Hence you can apply to Notre Dame, Georgetown, Richmond, Macalester, USC etc. EA. The SCEA schools are downright evil in terms of their prohibiting other private early applications; Georgetown and Notre Dame are not.

Notre Dame is restrictive early action: "student applying Restrictive Early Action to Notre Dame may not apply to any college or university (private or public) in their binding Early Decision 1 program." Kids cannot apply to any ED schools or any SCEA schools. So, while less prohibitive than SCEA, way more restrictive than regular EA.

To be clear: from Notre Dame’s standpoint, you can apply to SCEA schools. It is the SCEA schools which prohibit applying to one of them and Notre Dame. This is not Notre Dame’s fault; it is the SCEA schools’ fault. REA is much less prohibitive than SCEA. Moreover, it is only “way more restrictive than regular EA” if one is otherwise applying ED, which, statistically speaking, is the minority of applicants. Thus, for most applicants, there is no difference between REA and EA.

Being REA v EA made a huge difference to my kid's friend group. They opted not to apply to ND and applied to UNC. Michigan and UVA instead. ND will get way fewer REA apps than a school that is unrestricted EA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

The fact that Notre Dame is Catholic and in an undesirable midwest town but still has acceptance rate in the teens says a lot about the quality of the institution and student body. Georgetown is the only other Catholic school with similar rate, but it's in DC and tends to not embrace its Catholic identity at the same level as ND. Lots of non Catholics see ND for what it is...an excellent university with strong academics that also has a great athletics program, wonderful school spirit, and more of a collaborative culture (vs cutthroat that you find in the ivies).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).

As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.

The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school

I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.

What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.

Another important distinction is Notre Dame is restricted early action not "plain" early action: kids can only apply to early other schools that are non-binding (so essentially state schools). So different than, say UVA non-restrictive EA, where a lot of kids at my child's HS apply EA, in addition to their binding ED app. So even though non-binding, kids can't apply to an Ivy or ED SLAC as well as Notre Dame REA.

Notre Dame allows you to apply early to any private school you want — just not early decision. It is the SCEA monopoly of HYPS which prohibits applying early action to any private school — not Notre Dame or Georgetown. Hence you can apply to Notre Dame, Georgetown, Richmond, Macalester, USC etc. EA. The SCEA schools are downright evil in terms of their prohibiting other private early applications; Georgetown and Notre Dame are not.

Notre Dame is restrictive early action: "student applying Restrictive Early Action to Notre Dame may not apply to any college or university (private or public) in their binding Early Decision 1 program." Kids cannot apply to any ED schools or any SCEA schools. So, while less prohibitive than SCEA, way more restrictive than regular EA.

To be clear: from Notre Dame’s standpoint, you can apply to SCEA schools. It is the SCEA schools which prohibit applying to one of them and Notre Dame. This is not Notre Dame’s fault; it is the SCEA schools’ fault. REA is much less prohibitive than SCEA. Moreover, it is only “way more restrictive than regular EA” if one is otherwise applying ED, which, statistically speaking, is the minority of applicants. Thus, for most applicants, there is no difference between REA and EA.

Being REA v EA made a huge difference to my kid's friend group. They opted not to apply to ND and applied to UNC. Michigan and UVA instead. ND will get way fewer REA apps than a school that is unrestricted EA.

You're an interesting ND booster because you don't even understand how your own early admissions works, so your attempt at fabricating a story failed completely. You can apply to ND, UNC, UVA, and UMich EA - ND does not restrict that. The only thing you can't do is apply ED to another school.

[Anonymous]

So would you say Notre Dame (while I know is a good school) isn't worth the extra tuition over UVA for Va residents?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).

As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.

The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school

I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.

What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.

Another important distinction is Notre Dame is restricted early action not "plain" early action: kids can only apply to early other schools that are non-binding (so essentially state schools). So different than, say UVA non-restrictive EA, where a lot of kids at my child's HS apply EA, in addition to their binding ED app. So even though non-binding, kids can't apply to an Ivy or ED SLAC as well as Notre Dame REA.

Notre Dame allows you to apply early to any private school you want — just not early decision. It is the SCEA monopoly of HYPS which prohibits applying early action to any private school — not Notre Dame or Georgetown. Hence you can apply to Notre Dame, Georgetown, Richmond, Macalester, USC etc. EA. The SCEA schools are downright evil in terms of their prohibiting other private early applications; Georgetown and Notre Dame are not.

Notre Dame is restrictive early action: "student applying Restrictive Early Action to Notre Dame may not apply to any college or university (private or public) in their binding Early Decision 1 program." Kids cannot apply to any ED schools or any SCEA schools. So, while less prohibitive than SCEA, way more restrictive than regular EA.

To be clear: from Notre Dame’s standpoint, you can apply to SCEA schools. It is the SCEA schools which prohibit applying to one of them and Notre Dame. This is not Notre Dame’s fault; it is the SCEA schools’ fault. REA is much less prohibitive than SCEA. Moreover, it is only “way more restrictive than regular EA” if one is otherwise applying ED, which, statistically speaking, is the minority of applicants. Thus, for most applicants, there is no difference between REA and EA.

Being REA v EA made a huge difference to my kid's friend group. They opted not to apply to ND and applied to UNC. Michigan and UVA instead. ND will get way fewer REA apps than a school that is unrestricted EA.

You're an interesting ND booster because you don't even understand how your own early admissions works, so your attempt at fabricating a story failed completely. You can apply to ND, UNC, UVA, and UMich EA - ND does not restrict that. The only thing you can't do is apply ED to another school.

This is what I know about REA "applicants to restrictive early action schools are able to receive an early response from the school that is their top choice." I think we sort of drawing conclusions from the same thing: it is both the SCEA restrictions combined with the REA restriction that limited some of these kids: they strategically chose SCEA and a public EA instead of applying to ND REA. A lot of my kid's friend group would have applied to Notre Dame if they could have applied SCEA too (like they could at UNC or UVA or Michigan). What I am trying to say is less about ND but more about why these publics get a lot more early applications (in response to other posters talking about why application number to ND is lower than UVA, for example). It was less about ND.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

You could easily put Cornell, Vandy, Northwestern in the second grouping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So would you say Notre Dame (while I know is a good school) isn't worth the extra tuition over UVA for Va residents?

This is a thread about Notre Dame. Go away UVA booster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.

Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.

Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:

Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)

Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:

Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)

No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.

You could easily put Cornell, Vandy, Northwestern in the second grouping.

Cornell, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Georgetown and Notre Dame are all a tier above WUSTL and Emory.