is test optional really only for low income or diversity applicants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i agree that most schools play it close to the vest with regards to TO stats.

but some don’t - and it’s kinda fascinating when the info is shared.

Vandy for example - sub 10% acceptance rate and definitely a “hot” school - in my DC’s group as well as NOVA cocktail parties, this school is spoken of in reverent tones typically reserved for the upper ivies - and i would say beats the bottom half of the ivies in terms of desirability (from my admittedly limited and anecdotal sampling lol)

56% of kids applied TO and 61% accepted - probably the closest ratio i’ve seen from the limited published info in this regard.

Accordingly, SAT avg of matriculants is 1520 - that’s a crazy number. But clearly Vandy is aok with TO, and kids aren’t penalized..

separately i wonder how US News factor this into their algorithms, when only a slight majority of kids submit

You got this backwards—56 percent SUBMITTED test scores, and applicants WITH test scores made up 61 percent of accepted class. Also, fewer kids applied test optional than the prior year.

https://vanderbilthustler.com/2022/04/16/this-class-gives-me-hope-class-of-2026-overall-acceptance-rate-drops-to-6-1-record-low/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's patent that applications without test scores signify poor test scores, whether due to lack of aptitude, lack of preparation, poor preparatory education, or something else. Consequently, there's little practical difference between submitting poor scores versus no scores.

The weight given to either scenario by any given school is difficult to know, since test scores are not the only factor in admissions decisions.

Wrong. You can't be judged on what you don't submit. Whereas if you submit a poor score, it's part of your application.

I was told "nobody is not submitting a 34-36 ACT or 1500+ SAT". If you are applying to the most selective schools it is going to be assumed you did not fall in their average test score acceptance rates which will only matter if you aren't First Gen or an URM, that is who they designed test optional for.

OP here - this is my original point - if it’s only a hook for first gen or URM,
colleges should be open and upfront about it - pretty disingenuous imo

The schools are up front about TO. DCUM doesn’t believe them. On every tour I attend they were very, very clear that they mean what they say. One (top school) went so far as to say that “no one is looking to invite a lawsuit.”

I’m confused, does your kid have a 34-36 ACT or 1500+SAT and you are debating if you should send them to a TO school where that score is within range?

No, I never said that. Several schools we toured stated “We are test optional. If you do not submit your score we will not hold if against you. If you did not get a score in the 50th percentile, don’t submit.”

If that’s a lie, it’s a pretty egregious lie.

And again, there are a lot of kids with scores that, pre-pandemic, would meet the 50th percentile range. TO drives up the scores and if they kids listen to the schools, they should go TO. My kid was admitted to UVA in 2019 and submitted an SAT score of 1360. We didn’t really think twice about the score based on the scores from 2018. Now my second kid, with a higher GPA, 14 APs/2 DEs, and a 1370 is weighing TO. Because that’s what TO is driving kids to do.

Grinnell stated there policy but they are only one school. Why do you think they are being honest and every other school is lying? Why are AOs, guidance counselor and college advisors all saying TO really is TO if that’s not true?

I really doubt any colleges admissions officer explicitly told you not to submit a score if not within top 50 percentile for school. If so, name the school.

Every information session I’ ve attended over the past year with my now senior, the admissions officers have been very fuzzy with respect to what is said about test optional.

One example: UVA virtual information season, Spring 2022

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i agree that most schools play it close to the vest with regards to TO stats.

but some don’t - and it’s kinda fascinating when the info is shared.

Vandy for example - sub 10% acceptance rate and definitely a “hot” school - in my DC’s group as well as NOVA cocktail parties, this school is spoken of in reverent tones typically reserved for the upper ivies - and i would say beats the bottom half of the ivies in terms of desirability (from my admittedly limited and anecdotal sampling lol)

56% of kids applied TO and 61% accepted - probably the closest ratio i’ve seen from the limited published info in this regard.

Accordingly, SAT avg of matriculants is 1520 - that’s a crazy number. But clearly Vandy is aok with TO, and kids aren’t penalized..

separately i wonder how US News factor this into their algorithms, when only a slight majority of kids submit

You got this backwards—56 percent SUBMITTED test scores, and applicants WITH test scores made up 61 percent of accepted class. Also, fewer kids applied test optional than the prior year.

https://vanderbilthustler.com/2022/04/16/this-class-gives-me-hope-class-of-2026-overall-acceptance-rate-drops-to-6-1-record-low/

So I think this goes to a prior point made: it’s likely that TO doesn’t hurt you if your application is otherwise strong. But if you are reaching for the stars and think TO will get you there, you are wrong. And let’s be honest, that’s why applications are skyrocketing under TO. And clearly, and some schools, it’s a crapshoot either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i would be careful following college vine guidance PP - given the likely direction of the pending affirmative action case currently at SCOTUS level most elite colleges already taking action to avoid scrutiny on any biases going forward - the pendulum may wind up swinging waaay to far the other in the other direction unfortunately

He's not applying to any elite schools. All of the schools have acceptance rates around 70%.

Then apply test optional and move on.

If DC can't get into a college with a 70% acceptance rate - test score or not - that implies other issues that might be more pressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i agree that most schools play it close to the vest with regards to TO stats.

but some don’t - and it’s kinda fascinating when the info is shared.

Vandy for example - sub 10% acceptance rate and definitely a “hot” school - in my DC’s group as well as NOVA cocktail parties, this school is spoken of in reverent tones typically reserved for the upper ivies - and i would say beats the bottom half of the ivies in terms of desirability (from my admittedly limited and anecdotal sampling lol)

56% of kids applied TO and 61% accepted - probably the closest ratio i’ve seen from the limited published info in this regard.

Accordingly, SAT avg of matriculants is 1520 - that’s a crazy number. But clearly Vandy is aok with TO, and kids aren’t penalized..

separately i wonder how US News factor this into their algorithms, when only a slight majority of kids submit

You got this backwards—56 percent SUBMITTED test scores, and applicants WITH test scores made up 61 percent of accepted class. Also, fewer kids applied test optional than the prior year.

https://vanderbilthustler.com/2022/04/16/this-class-gives-me-hope-class-of-2026-overall-acceptance-rate-drops-to-6-1-record-low/

So I think this goes to a prior point made: it’s likely that TO doesn’t hurt you if your application is otherwise strong. But if you are reaching for the stars and think TO will get you there, you are wrong. And let’s be honest, that’s why applications are skyrocketing under TO. And clearly, and some schools, it’s a crapshoot either way.

It seems to show that kids who apply with test scores are more likely to be admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i would be careful following college vine guidance PP - given the likely direction of the pending affirmative action case currently at SCOTUS level most elite colleges already taking action to avoid scrutiny on any biases going forward - the pendulum may wind up swinging waaay to far the other in the other direction unfortunately

He's not applying to any elite schools. All of the schools have acceptance rates around 70%.

Then apply test optional and move on.

If DC can't get into a college with a 70% acceptance rate - test score or not - that implies other issues that might be more pressing.

It implies he probably doesn’t have inflated grades like public school applicants do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i agree that most schools play it close to the vest with regards to TO stats.

but some don’t - and it’s kinda fascinating when the info is shared.

Vandy for example - sub 10% acceptance rate and definitely a “hot” school - in my DC’s group as well as NOVA cocktail parties, this school is spoken of in reverent tones typically reserved for the upper ivies - and i would say beats the bottom half of the ivies in terms of desirability (from my admittedly limited and anecdotal sampling lol)

56% of kids applied TO and 61% accepted - probably the closest ratio i’ve seen from the limited published info in this regard.

Accordingly, SAT avg of matriculants is 1520 - that’s a crazy number. But clearly Vandy is aok with TO, and kids aren’t penalized..

separately i wonder how US News factor this into their algorithms, when only a slight majority of kids submit

For what year? For class of 2025, test optional candidates will be very different from subsequent year. That year, many kids truly couldn’t access tests.

Based on what? Your wish that it is true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i agree that most schools play it close to the vest with regards to TO stats.

but some don’t - and it’s kinda fascinating when the info is shared.

Vandy for example - sub 10% acceptance rate and definitely a “hot” school - in my DC’s group as well as NOVA cocktail parties, this school is spoken of in reverent tones typically reserved for the upper ivies - and i would say beats the bottom half of the ivies in terms of desirability (from my admittedly limited and anecdotal sampling lol)

56% of kids applied TO and 61% accepted - probably the closest ratio i’ve seen from the limited published info in this regard.

Accordingly, SAT avg of matriculants is 1520 - that’s a crazy number. But clearly Vandy is aok with TO, and kids aren’t penalized..

separately i wonder how US News factor this into their algorithms, when only a slight majority of kids submit

You got this backwards—56 percent SUBMITTED test scores, and applicants WITH test scores made up 61 percent of accepted class. Also, fewer kids applied test optional than the prior year.

https://vanderbilthustler.com/2022/04/16/this-class-gives-me-hope-class-of-2026-overall-acceptance-rate-drops-to-6-1-record-low/

The more important factoid: Vandy will be TO through the class of 2028 or at least 2 more years.

That combined with 39 percent of those accepted were TO - a sizable amount for a school with such a low acceptance rate - let's you know that TO will be an acceptable admissions practice going forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i agree that most schools play it close to the vest with regards to TO stats.

but some don’t - and it’s kinda fascinating when the info is shared.

Vandy for example - sub 10% acceptance rate and definitely a “hot” school - in my DC’s group as well as NOVA cocktail parties, this school is spoken of in reverent tones typically reserved for the upper ivies - and i would say beats the bottom half of the ivies in terms of desirability (from my admittedly limited and anecdotal sampling lol)

56% of kids applied TO and 61% accepted - probably the closest ratio i’ve seen from the limited published info in this regard.

Accordingly, SAT avg of matriculants is 1520 - that’s a crazy number. But clearly Vandy is aok with TO, and kids aren’t penalized..

separately i wonder how US News factor this into their algorithms, when only a slight majority of kids submit

You got this backwards—56 percent SUBMITTED test scores, and applicants WITH test scores made up 61 percent of accepted class. Also, fewer kids applied test optional than the prior year.

https://vanderbilthustler.com/2022/04/16/this-class-gives-me-hope-class-of-2026-overall-acceptance-rate-drops-to-6-1-record-low/

The more important factoid: Vandy will be TO through the class of 2028 or at least 2 more years.

That combined with 39 percent of those accepted were TO - a sizable amount for a school with such a low acceptance rate - let's you know that TO will be an acceptable admissions practice going forward.

Are you the same poster who was trying to argue that the majority of kids accepted were test optional just a page ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i agree that most schools play it close to the vest with regards to TO stats.

but some don’t - and it’s kinda fascinating when the info is shared.

Vandy for example - sub 10% acceptance rate and definitely a “hot” school - in my DC’s group as well as NOVA cocktail parties, this school is spoken of in reverent tones typically reserved for the upper ivies - and i would say beats the bottom half of the ivies in terms of desirability (from my admittedly limited and anecdotal sampling lol)

56% of kids applied TO and 61% accepted - probably the closest ratio i’ve seen from the limited published info in this regard.

Accordingly, SAT avg of matriculants is 1520 - that’s a crazy number. But clearly Vandy is aok with TO, and kids aren’t penalized..

separately i wonder how US News factor this into their algorithms, when only a slight majority of kids submit

For what year? For class of 2025, test optional candidates will be very different from subsequent year. That year, many kids truly couldn’t access tests.

Based on what? Your wish that it is true?

Umm, no, Covid test cancellations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i would be careful following college vine guidance PP - given the likely direction of the pending affirmative action case currently at SCOTUS level most elite colleges already taking action to avoid scrutiny on any biases going forward - the pendulum may wind up swinging waaay to far the other in the other direction unfortunately

He's not applying to any elite schools. All of the schools have acceptance rates around 70%.

Then apply test optional and move on.

If DC can't get into a college with a 70% acceptance rate - test score or not - that implies other issues that might be more pressing.

It implies he probably doesn’t have inflated grades like public school applicants do.

How many times does someone have to point out that schools do NOT look at an applicant's GPA in isolation, but in the context of a high school's grade distribution data. It's where your kid lies in that distribution range that really matters for the large majority of (but not all) public and private high schools.

[Anonymous]

i was the one who botched the calculation for vandy - thank god there was a horde to immediately point out my error lol

my point remains valid

56% applied with scores 61% accepted

negligible difference - even less so when reasonable to expect test submitters have stronger overall apps

meaning = submitting tests means nothing at vandy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i was the one who botched the calculation for vandy - thank god there was a horde to immediately point out my error lol

my point remains valid

56% applied with scores 61% accepted

negligible difference - even less so when reasonable to expect test submitters have stronger overall apps

meaning = submitting tests means nothing at vandy

Yeah, not so impressed with your reasoning there or here. Just slightly less than two thirds of the accepted class submitted test scores. That suggests it’s an advantage.

[Anonymous]

If you have >/= 1500, submit. If you don't, don't.

T25 statement primarily.

[Anonymous]

My white upper middle class daughter applied TO and was accepted everywhere. We knew it was a gamble but her scores were not representative of her ability and we didn’t want to give schools a reason to say no to her. She has ADHD and is a poor test taker. Her best scores she could manage on the ACT test dates were 4-5 points lower than the scores she was getting on her practice tests. They were lower than the mid range for all her schools even though her GPA was fine. She was aiming for safeties and matches, not top 50 or anything like that.