Shen Yun warning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've seen the adds for years and I finally googled the name. Everything I read was positive and I decided to give it a shot. What can go wrong in a show presented in a prestigious cultural venue like Kennedy Center? Big mistake. Relatively early in the show you learn that "Between atheism and evolution, Satan lurks." Close to the end, they make sure to send the message again: "Atheism and evolution are the Devil's deceit." As atheist and scientist, I was shocked that I ended up supporting a fundamentalist religious group, while the show is advertised as a Chinese cultural experience. I am not sure what options I have at this point, but I don't want to just let it go.

It is a messaging tool for Falun Gong. And they are all Trump supporters.

[Anonymous]

Just a PSA, if you have cable try fast forwarding through their commercials. It makes the constant commercials much more funny.

[Anonymous]

I thought everyone knew this already. They've been around for years, it's not a secret.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a PSA, if you have cable try fast forwarding through their commercials. It makes the constant commercials much more funny.

Sweetie, you are the only person that still has cable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You Googled it and didn't figure this out before you bought the tickets?!?!? I've often wondered who pays to see that.

It was a mistake to just skim the results without reading something more in-depth about the show (like the New Yorker piece). I never thought that Kennedy Center would put such a crap on one of its stages.

So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

They rented the venue to perform.

DC's choir performed at Strathmore once. Strathmore got the rent and the parents did everything else, including fundraising and selling the tickets.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

I never thought that I will ever hear on a Kennedy Center stage that atheism and evolution are devil's deceit. I have nothing against religious shows as long as they are advertised as such. I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

Maybe you need to put more critical thinking into why that bothers you. If you’re an atheist the devil doesn’t exist and neither does God. Why are you bothered to be called something that doesn’t exist to you?

I was not concerned about the devil part as much as you may think. Let me emphasize a different set of words, so you don't have to question my critical thinking:

Anonymous wrote:I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

I ended up supporting a group of people spread a message that I don't agree with.

Again, if you’re atheist their message is meaningless to you because you don’t believe in the devil. Would you be just as upset if their message was all atheists are blue skinned losers?

Their message is meaningless to me, but they keep spreading it. What can go wrong? Maybe religion being taught in schools as an alternative to evolution? Maybe people believing in alternative facts? Having more people believe things that have no support in reality?

Ahhh. Now the truth comes out. You don’t want people believing in God being able to speak and promote their beliefs.

Feel free to spread the word of God. Don't mislead me into supporting your effort to spread the word of God. And don't misinterpret what I say / write.

They didn’t. You just didn’t bother to read their website and understand what the words on the page mean.

Show me something on their webpage that mentions their feelings about evolution / atheism. Spirituality does not imply rejection of evolution.

They clearly mention Falun Dafa in several areas of the website? Did you research who they were or wonder why the reference?

You can be mad at yourself for not researching something thoroughly (as you said previously). But that isn’t the fault of the Kennedy Center.

As I mentioned earlier, I was somewhat familiar with Falun Dafa because I saw them exercising in parks. I had no reason to associate the name with religious fundamentalism. They advertised the show as a cultural, not as a fundamentalist religious experience. I agree that I should have done my homework better, but their advertising is absolutely misleading.

What makes them fundamentalists?

Here are two quotes from the show: (1) Behind atheism and evolution, Satan lurks (2) Atheism and evolution are the Devil's deceit.

What makes that fundamentalism?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

I never thought that I will ever hear on a Kennedy Center stage that atheism and evolution are devil's deceit. I have nothing against religious shows as long as they are advertised as such. I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

Maybe you need to put more critical thinking into why that bothers you. If you’re an atheist the devil doesn’t exist and neither does God. Why are you bothered to be called something that doesn’t exist to you?

I was not concerned about the devil part as much as you may think. Let me emphasize a different set of words, so you don't have to question my critical thinking:

Anonymous wrote:I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

I ended up supporting a group of people spread a message that I don't agree with.

Again, if you’re atheist their message is meaningless to you because you don’t believe in the devil. Would you be just as upset if their message was all atheists are blue skinned losers?

Their message is meaningless to me, but they keep spreading it. What can go wrong? Maybe religion being taught in schools as an alternative to evolution? Maybe people believing in alternative facts? Having more people believe things that have no support in reality?

Ahhh. Now the truth comes out. You don’t want people believing in God being able to speak and promote their beliefs.

Feel free to spread the word of God. Don't mislead me into supporting your effort to spread the word of God. And don't misinterpret what I say / write.

They didn’t. You just didn’t bother to read their website and understand what the words on the page mean.

Show me something on their webpage that mentions their feelings about evolution / atheism. Spirituality does not imply rejection of evolution.

They clearly mention Falun Dafa in several areas of the website? Did you research who they were or wonder why the reference?

You can be mad at yourself for not researching something thoroughly (as you said previously). But that isn’t the fault of the Kennedy Center.

As I mentioned earlier, I was somewhat familiar with Falun Dafa because I saw them exercising in parks. I had no reason to associate the name with religious fundamentalism. They advertised the show as a cultural, not as a fundamentalist religious experience. I agree that I should have done my homework better, but their advertising is absolutely misleading.

What makes them fundamentalists?

Here are two quotes from the show: (1) Behind atheism and evolution, Satan lurks (2) Atheism and evolution are the Devil's deceit.

What makes that fundamentalism?

Here is the definition of Christian fundamentalism: Christian fundamentalism, movement in American Protestantism that arose in the late 19th century in reaction to theological modernism, which aimed to revise traditional Christian beliefs to accommodate new developments in the natural and social sciences, especially the theory of biological evolution (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Christian-fundamentalism). Do you see any resemblance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've seen the adds for years and I finally googled the name. Everything I read was positive and I decided to give it a shot. What can go wrong in a show presented in a prestigious cultural venue like Kennedy Center? Big mistake. Relatively early in the show you learn that "Between atheism and evolution, Satan lurks." Close to the end, they make sure to send the message again: "Atheism and evolution are the Devil's deceit." As atheist and scientist, I was shocked that I ended up supporting a fundamentalist religious group, while the show is advertised as a Chinese cultural experience. I am not sure what options I have at this point, but I don't want to just let it go.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

Why are you giving op a hard time? She isn’t asking for them to be banned from performing- just that the advertisements, on their face are misleading. Which it seems they are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

You clearly make a confusion between your freedom of speech and my freedom to choose whether I support your speech or not. You have the right to blabber all the nonsense you want, but that doesn't give you the right to force your nonsense down my throat. Moreover, make me pay for it. I paid for a cultural experience, I should not have to listen to religious indoctrination. If you believe that your freedom of religion means that you have the right to deceive me and pay for your religious indoctrination, you need to find another country.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

You clearly make a confusion between your freedom of speech and my freedom to choose whether I support your speech or not. You have the right to blabber all the nonsense you want, but that doesn't give you the right to force your nonsense down my throat. Moreover, make me pay for it. I paid for a cultural experience, I should not have to listen to religious indoctrination. If you believe that your freedom of religion means that you have the right to deceive me and pay for your religious indoctrination, you need to find another country.

How did they force you to pay? How did they force you to listen to it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

Why are you giving op a hard time? She isn’t asking for them to be banned from performing- just that the advertisements, on their face are misleading. Which it seems they are.

All advertising is misleading. Caveat emptor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

Why are you giving op a hard time? She isn’t asking for them to be banned from performing- just that the advertisements, on their face are misleading. Which it seems they are.

Thank you for the support, but this poster doesn't really give me a hard time. They are twisting themselves into a pretzel to make it look like this is a freedom of speech issue, when it is clearly not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

You clearly make a confusion between your freedom of speech and my freedom to choose whether I support your speech or not. You have the right to blabber all the nonsense you want, but that doesn't give you the right to force your nonsense down my throat. Moreover, make me pay for it. I paid for a cultural experience, I should not have to listen to religious indoctrination. If you believe that your freedom of religion means that you have the right to deceive me and pay for your religious indoctrination, you need to find another country.

How did they force you to pay? How did they force you to listen to it?

They use deceiving advertisement to sell tickets. Once I was in the concert hall, (believe it or not) I could hear what they were saying. To be honest, I was reading from the screen because I don't understand Chinese.