Unvaxxed child in Texas just died of the measles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sad how no one here on this site is bright enough to mention the critical necessity of building immunity.

Do you know what measles does to your immunity?! Start there.

+1 Measles depletes your immune system for years and wipes out immunity you’ve already built.

Viruses are not some benign “natural” thing that ultimately make us stronger. Viral infections trigger permanent chronic disease — from type 1 diabetes that will leave you insulin-dependent and vulnerable for the rest of your life, to lupus which turns the body against its own tissues causing an array of health problems, to degenerative, debilitating, and painful MS.

Seriously, PP: please learn more about viruses.

Your view isn’t the only view held by professionals. You are certainly entitled to your view.

Which part of the above do medical professionals disagree with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sad how no one here on this site is bright enough to mention the critical necessity of building immunity.

Do you know what measles does to your immunity?! Start there.

+1 Measles depletes your immune system for years and wipes out immunity you’ve already built.

Viruses are not some benign “natural” thing that ultimately make us stronger. Viral infections trigger permanent chronic disease — from type 1 diabetes that will leave you insulin-dependent and vulnerable for the rest of your life, to lupus which turns the body against its own tissues causing an array of health problems, to degenerative, debilitating, and painful MS.

Seriously, PP: please learn more about viruses.

Your view isn’t the only view held by professionals. You are certainly entitled to your view.

It’s factual, not a “view.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sad how no one here on this site is bright enough to mention the critical necessity of building immunity.

Do you know what measles does to your immunity?! Start there.

+1 Measles depletes your immune system for years and wipes out immunity you’ve already built.

Viruses are not some benign “natural” thing that ultimately make us stronger. Viral infections trigger permanent chronic disease — from type 1 diabetes that will leave you insulin-dependent and vulnerable for the rest of your life, to lupus which turns the body against its own tissues causing an array of health problems, to degenerative, debilitating, and painful MS.

Seriously, PP: please learn more about viruses.

Your view isn’t the only view held by professionals. You are certainly entitled to your view.

If you include wingnut crackpots as professionals, sure. But not the top people in the field -- maybe some fringe loonies. Cute someone, and we can see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

Yeah, if I believe vaccines change my DNA, that doesn't mean it does. It means l can't assess medical facts, but I'm going to try to Dunning-Kruger my way into risking other lives by sheer ego alone, science be damned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

And again: you know what is factually known to irreversibly alter bodies, including one’s genome? Viruses.

[Anonymous]

For anyone who is open to the facts, here is some information about how measles infection leaves you with a weaker immune system rather than a stronger one:

https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2025/03/measles-immune-amnesia

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/measles-immune-amnesia/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

Yeah, if I believe vaccines change my DNA, that doesn't mean it does. It means l can't assess medical facts, but I'm going to try to Dunning-Kruger my way into risking other lives by sheer ego alone, science be damned.

It's not about DNA, first of all, you don't understand because you deliberately choose to remain blind and unable to understand anyone else's POV. It's about belief system, which yours is one of the variations. You think you represent science. I believe science is never settled, we need to evolve our understanding. Unfortunately fields virology/epidemology/vaccinology have become a religion (became politicized) where dogma cannot be questioned under any circumstances. You subscribe to this dogma and I can completely understand your POV. I also can understand the POV of those who believe injections alter their bodies in ways they do not want. Whether viruses alter your body or not, they may be perceived as part of natural process by these people vs. artificial alteration. You don't need to subscribe to their ideology, I don't, personally. But you can certainly try to grasp with your mind what they might be feeling when being forced to get an injection of something they believe is incompatible with their way of life, but you seem to lack this ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

We cannot allow delusional and irrational people to harm others due their deeply held beliefs. Being a crazy religious person doesn't give your the right to kill other people with measles. If you want to not vaccinate your kids with measles and there is no medical exemption, you should be banned from public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

Yeah, if I believe vaccines change my DNA, that doesn't mean it does. It means l can't assess medical facts, but I'm going to try to Dunning-Kruger my way into risking other lives by sheer ego alone, science be damned.

It's not about DNA, first of all, you don't understand because you deliberately choose to remain blind and unable to understand anyone else's POV. It's about belief system, which yours is one of the variations. You think you represent science. I believe science is never settled, we need to evolve our understanding. Unfortunately fields virology/epidemology/vaccinology have become a religion (became politicized) where dogma cannot be questioned under any circumstances. You subscribe to this dogma and I can completely understand your POV. I also can understand the POV of those who believe injections alter their bodies in ways they do not want. Whether viruses alter your body or not, they may be perceived as part of natural process by these people vs. artificial alteration. You don't need to subscribe to their ideology, I don't, personally. But you can certainly try to grasp with your mind what they might be feeling when being forced to get an injection of something they believe is incompatible with their way of life, but you seem to lack this ability.

Religion cannot be empirically validated or replicated with experiments. Your arrogance and lack of understanding of biology in general is very apparent by your statements. This whole obsession about things being "natural" is also completely irrational and juvenile. Arsenic is "natural", dying during childbirth is "natural", smallpox is "natural". Nature is amoral, cruel and indifferent to your survival. Every intervention humans make to improve peoples lives and prevent needless suffering is "natural."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

Yeah, if I believe vaccines change my DNA, that doesn't mean it does. It means l can't assess medical facts, but I'm going to try to Dunning-Kruger my way into risking other lives by sheer ego alone, science be damned.

It's not about DNA, first of all, you don't understand because you deliberately choose to remain blind and unable to understand anyone else's POV. It's about belief system, which yours is one of the variations. You think you represent science. I believe science is never settled, we need to evolve our understanding. Unfortunately fields virology/epidemology/vaccinology have become a religion (became politicized) where dogma cannot be questioned under any circumstances. You subscribe to this dogma and I can completely understand your POV. I also can understand the POV of those who believe injections alter their bodies in ways they do not want. Whether viruses alter your body or not, they may be perceived as part of natural process by these people vs. artificial alteration. You don't need to subscribe to their ideology, I don't, personally. But you can certainly try to grasp with your mind what they might be feeling when being forced to get an injection of something they believe is incompatible with their way of life, but you seem to lack this ability.

Religion cannot be empirically validated or replicated with experiments. Your arrogance and lack of understanding of biology in general is very apparent by your statements. This whole obsession about things being "natural" is also completely irrational and juvenile. Arsenic is "natural", dying during childbirth is "natural", smallpox is "natural". Nature is amoral, cruel and indifferent to your survival. Every intervention humans make to improve peoples lives and prevent needless suffering is "natural."

not "natural"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

We cannot allow delusional and irrational people to harm others due their deeply held beliefs. Being a crazy religious person doesn't give your the right to kill other people with measles. If you want to not vaccinate your kids with measles and there is no medical exemption, you should be banned from public schools.

This.
If you can’t understand society includes duties and responsibilities, then just go live off the land in the wild and don’t interact with others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

We cannot allow delusional and irrational people to harm others due their deeply held beliefs. Being a crazy religious person doesn't give your the right to kill other people with measles. If you want to not vaccinate your kids with measles and there is no medical exemption, you should be banned from public schools.

This.
If you can’t understand society includes duties and responsibilities, then just go live off the land in the wild and don’t interact with others.

+1
Believe whatever you want. You have absolutely no right to put others at risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unvaxxed people by choice should not be able to get medical help. They endanger others. You can’t accept medical expertise at the end if you dont at the beginning. And I’m not sorry for this opinion.

Drink your bleach. Eat tide pods. Pray it away. Whatever. But no hospital for you. ESPECIALLY when families like this then criticize medical personnel for not doing enough to save their kid. Buddy YOU DIDNT DO ENOUGH. It is YOU that killed your child.

People say things like this and posture like they're dispensing tough love. They're not. Here's how you know: there are lots of things that are endanger public health that we tolerate and celebrate that have *zero* upside. Junk food. Recreational drug use. Sedentary lifestyles. As to people who recklessly overindulge in these, no one suggests withholding medical care--and for good reason; it's totally ghoulish.

Junk food only threatens the health of people who eat it. Sedentary lifestyles only threaten the health of the people who are sedentary. Recreational drug use is mostly illegal and can be prosecuted. Slipping recreational drugs to other, unknowing people is a crime. However, people who are unvaccinated by choice and not for medical reasons present a real threat to the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. They can spread contagions to vulnerable people. If 98% of the people who can safely be vaccinated are vaccinated, that protects all of the people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. My avoiding junk food and exercising doesn’t protect anyone who eats junk food and is sedentary. That’s why the things you listed are different.

That would be a reasonable response if contagion were the only negative externality that can result from a health choice. Of course, that is not the case, and a fairly obvious one is the staggering healthcare costs that come from treating disease that could have been prevented or managed through sensible lifestyle changes.

No one is complaining about the money that it costs to treats children with serious measles complications. This isn’t a financial discussion. What’s being discussed here is the toll that non vaccinated people take on the health of people who can’t be vaccinated. There’s a very easy, effective way to prevent the spread of measles. When people opt not to prevent measles, they become vectors for transmission of this highly contagious disease and the result is an outbreak, which can kill or maim young children and people with weakened immune systems. Obesity health complications costs us all more money to treat, but one person’s obesity doesn’t impact another person’s health, which is what the problem is with non vaxers.

You can't just disregard the inconvenient externalities by saying no one is talking about them.

Also one person's obesity absolutely *is* correlated with the next person's. I will grant you that that correlation is not the result of viral or bacterial transmission.

Yep. People who make lifestyle choices that result in them costing more and consuming more in terms of hospital capacity, healthcare facilities, taxpayer money aren't any better than your reviled anti-vaxxers. Ironically anti-vaxxers live in their own communities and don't disproportionately consume public resources unlike drug addicts, obese people, and people engaging in dangerous activities like reckless driving, extreme sports or drug experimentation. Every action has a reaction that reverberates in the society at large. Isolating one group of people to blame for the entirety of our healthcare issues is stupid.

Lol, who blamed anti vaxxers for the entirety of our healthcare issues? There are many, many problems with American healthcare. I wouldn’t rank anti vaxxers very high on a list of them. However, they are a serious threat to infants and people with weakened immune systems. Guess what’s way easier than losing a ton of weight or conquering drug addiction? Getting vaccinated.

It's where you are wrong and will never understand the underlying issue. It's not easier. If people have deeply held fundamental beliefs (religious or ideological) that these injections irreversibly alter their bodies or mutilate them in some ways it's not easier for them to take vaccines, it's harder than let's say losing weight and moderating substance use. you won't get it, because you feel morally superior.

Yeah, if I believe vaccines change my DNA, that doesn't mean it does. It means l can't assess medical facts, but I'm going to try to Dunning-Kruger my way into risking other lives by sheer ego alone, science be damned.

It's not about DNA, first of all, you don't understand because you deliberately choose to remain blind and unable to understand anyone else's POV. It's about belief system, which yours is one of the variations. You think you represent science. I believe science is never settled, we need to evolve our understanding. Unfortunately fields virology/epidemology/vaccinology have become a religion (became politicized) where dogma cannot be questioned under any circumstances. You subscribe to this dogma and I can completely understand your POV. I also can understand the POV of those who believe injections alter their bodies in ways they do not want. Whether viruses alter your body or not, they may be perceived as part of natural process by these people vs. artificial alteration. You don't need to subscribe to their ideology, I don't, personally. But you can certainly try to grasp with your mind what they might be feeling when being forced to get an injection of something they believe is incompatible with their way of life, but you seem to lack this ability.

Okay, so what overall worse harm to you think vaccines do, and do you have evidence, or is it just a really big feeling?

[Anonymous]

** or feel free to interpret that as directed towards the beliefs of others, some you indicate so

I'm sorry, but if you believe vaccines are from little green men taking over our world from Mars, none of us. -- least of all doctors -- are required to pay it credence, no matter how big your feelings are.