ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Whats going to happen to the ECNL cheerleaders when MLSN stays BY, continues to be the top tier for boys youth soccer, and continues to grow? It will be entertaining to watch.

Reguarding MLSN p2p switching to SY. The ONLY reason I can see it happening is to make it easy for clubs to switch from ECNL to MLSN/GA.

How else is mlsnext going to expand in the future? Clubs will switch to 8/1 for next year and then the following year or two say, just kidding! and switch back to 1/1?

Belittle it all you want with a Jan-July birthday. This is a mess if you have a son with an aug-December birthday at a high level at the ulittle ages.

Unless it becomes the ultimate challenge. You are the best now -- can you hang at the BY-level?

Its a 6 month difference between BY and SY. At the highest levels this isnt that big of a deal.

You assume that if MLSN stays BY that ECNL or whatever league will ever play against MLSN teams again. I'll let you in it wont happen. MLS clubs will host their own BY tournaments which SY teams will be welcome to attend but YOU'LL be forced to play 6 months up.

If players want to play professionally they'll be forced to play for MLS at some point or get ignored. Even if you want to play in college you're in a better position to get noticed playing for MLS than other leagues. Lather rinse repeat and this will keep growing.

Other leagues are like swimming upstream if you want to play at the next level. MLS is live going upstream in a motorboat. Which in the end allows for more opportunities.

Yeesh, you are still lobbying hard for your July kid. Better get on meds now before the hammer drops and all your BS hits you in the face.

I actually think MLSN p2p might switch to SY. But not because SY is in any way better than BY. I think it would make it easier for all the ECNL clubs that want to switch to MLSN/GA. If you dont have this switching leagues would require redoing all the rosters.

Actually the more I think about it the more it makes sense for MLSN to let p2p clubs choose if they want to be BY or SY. The only catch would be that Events and League would be BY. This way everyone gets what they want and if clubs want to stay closer to SY because they like to play against those teams in tournaments fine. It will make things a little more difficult in MLSN league and events but playing up 6 months isn't that big of a deal. With biobanding whats the difference?

I heard that was what was told to clubs back in June.

The problem with this approach is if some of MLS is BY and the other group is SY its going to naturally create a 1st tier and 2nd tier. If this is going to happen you might as well just split out the MLSN p2p teams into their own league.

I don’t think it was well thought out and hopefully not what they are going to do. We heard rumors about the two MLSN clubs in our area at that time, both rumored to be doing opposite things. Might as well just sign Jan-July to one and aug-dec to the other.

MLS p2p clubs want the association with MLS because it brings in all kinds of players.

But.... They also want to keep doing things the way that customers (players) are running away from. Seems like the MLS p2p club owners are used to getting what they want and dont care if its what players want.

Eventually MLSN will create a seperate p2p league that p2p clubs can wear the badge but not actually field teams with players that are looking to play professionally.

You are making even less sense than usual today. Maybe take a nap.

First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you <---- you are here
Then you win

No. I am definitely laughing at you; and will now go back to ignoring you.

Watch what happens. MLS only wants a big pool of players to choose from for Homegrown. If all the p2p clubs want to change yo SY thats fine. But, they're only separating themselves from the pro pathway.

You really believe that the p2p clubs are a pro pathway?

I believe MLS p2p clubs are a pool of potential talent MLS homegrown can pull players from. I get that MLS HG pulls from everywhere but MLSN p2p clubs will have more opportunities and club connections to be identified.

I don’t think you understand the landscape the way you think you do. Your terminology is not making sense.

I believe that MLSN is going to split appart at a BY/SY line. Homegrown will stay BY and P2P will be a seperate SY league.

And that’s why I don’t think you understand how mlsnext is structured. Homegrown has P2P clubs in it. Most of homegrown is P2P clubs.

I realize this but it doesn't matter if there's a group of P2P clubs that want SY it makes sense to seperate the top teams as BY and everyone else or at least the p2p clubs that want SY into their own leagues. What this will do is create a tier 1 league thats BY and tier 2 league thats SY.

This is where I see things going. The MLS tier 1 league and tier 2 league teams can still play each other but one team would be playing up 6 months. Which could be addressed via biobanding.

Its also advantageous to have both a BY and SY league because it would make it easy for ECNL, etc teams to switch over to MLSN/GA.

Hey, you don’t have even a minimum knowledge of how MLSNext two divisions are composed.

Please stop embarrassing the forum with your nonsense. Prior to anything first take your time to learn the elemental details of how current MLS Next is structured.

Thanks.

I'll just save this post for later.

I'm going to give the original PP on this one latitude because MLSN did it to themselves. They essentially have their academies play in their own league but for marketing include the P2P also under the Homegrown label where no one is really homegrown and they essentially play in different leagues, heck the league exists to better be able to pouch and they called in Homegrown. Then under the 3rd tier after academies and then P2P in Homegrown they call the league Academy which has been subcontracted out to NAL. Then they have a 4th level called NAL, I think this one isn't so clear. So take up confusion with MLSN.

Well thank you...

What do you think will happen next if a group of MLSN p2p clubs keep pushing for SY? If both groups "the BY crowd" and "the SY crowd" get their way the end result will be seperate MLS leagues.

Also it makes sense for MLS to have a SY league so ECNL clubs switching over to MLSN/GA can do so without changing rosters from SY to BY.

He's saying they (MLSN P2P and the real MLSN Academies) are already in separate leagues (and yes, they basically are)... I do agree that MLSN themselves have made this discussion insane because of their decisions to call 'new' things terms that already existed in their own ecosystem. It would be like ECNL creating a 3rd league under RL and calling it National League. So I don't fault you on struggling with the names either.

All I'm saying is that if theres a significant number of MLSN clubs that want SY it would make sense to create a seperate league for this. The SY league would automatically become tier 2 or tier 3. Which in ECNL terminology would be the ECRL league.

What's causing issues for MLSN is that they're trying to be everything to everyone. Eventually if they keep scaling they'll need to create tiers/divisions. Making the lowest tier/division SY solves a lot of probelms.

The downside of this approach is that there would need to be enough MLSN SY clubs that are reasonably close to each other.

You’d be hard pressed to find enough p2p mlsnext 1 (sticking with numbers for the sake of clarity) that want to stay BY. There may be a few… doing something different in a saturated market, aligning with academies to continue to sell that dream) but it wouldn’t be enough to split mlsnext 1 and create a separate league. Mlsnext 1 teams are already spread out and the travel is insane, no way they can differentiate any further.

What could happen is the mls academies (affiliated mls clubs, not mlsnext 2) are BY and mlsnext 1 p2p is SY. That’s been discussed many times before on here.

They could rebrand MLsN2 to be MLSN school year. It already is only part of the year and allows HS ball. Makes perfect sense to just switch to SY and sell it as the MLSN version of ECNL.

Of course that breaks the idea that MLSN2 is some sort of pathway to MLSN but only naive u13 parents currently believe that.

They could keep mls1 BY and mls2 SY. Would be a nightmare for mls1 clubs that have mls2 for the second team but would at least keep the mls2 clubs (without mls1) in the league. If mls2 stays BY I think you lose the clubs without mls1 immediately, not worth the headache when ecnl/rl would provide a similar platform.

Yes. They would lose nearly all the clubs that have only mlsn2 teams. Thats is a huge number of clubs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Whats going to happen to the ECNL cheerleaders when MLSN stays BY, continues to be the top tier for boys youth soccer, and continues to grow? It will be entertaining to watch.

Reguarding MLSN p2p switching to SY. The ONLY reason I can see it happening is to make it easy for clubs to switch from ECNL to MLSN/GA.

How else is mlsnext going to expand in the future? Clubs will switch to 8/1 for next year and then the following year or two say, just kidding! and switch back to 1/1?

Belittle it all you want with a Jan-July birthday. This is a mess if you have a son with an aug-December birthday at a high level at the ulittle ages.

Unless it becomes the ultimate challenge. You are the best now -- can you hang at the BY-level?

Its a 6 month difference between BY and SY. At the highest levels this isnt that big of a deal.

You assume that if MLSN stays BY that ECNL or whatever league will ever play against MLSN teams again. I'll let you in it wont happen. MLS clubs will host their own BY tournaments which SY teams will be welcome to attend but YOU'LL be forced to play 6 months up.

If players want to play professionally they'll be forced to play for MLS at some point or get ignored. Even if you want to play in college you're in a better position to get noticed playing for MLS than other leagues. Lather rinse repeat and this will keep growing.

Other leagues are like swimming upstream if you want to play at the next level. MLS is live going upstream in a motorboat. Which in the end allows for more opportunities.

Yeesh, you are still lobbying hard for your July kid. Better get on meds now before the hammer drops and all your BS hits you in the face.

I actually think MLSN p2p might switch to SY. But not because SY is in any way better than BY. I think it would make it easier for all the ECNL clubs that want to switch to MLSN/GA. If you dont have this switching leagues would require redoing all the rosters.

Actually the more I think about it the more it makes sense for MLSN to let p2p clubs choose if they want to be BY or SY. The only catch would be that Events and League would be BY. This way everyone gets what they want and if clubs want to stay closer to SY because they like to play against those teams in tournaments fine. It will make things a little more difficult in MLSN league and events but playing up 6 months isn't that big of a deal. With biobanding whats the difference?

I heard that was what was told to clubs back in June.

The problem with this approach is if some of MLS is BY and the other group is SY its going to naturally create a 1st tier and 2nd tier. If this is going to happen you might as well just split out the MLSN p2p teams into their own league.

I don’t think it was well thought out and hopefully not what they are going to do. We heard rumors about the two MLSN clubs in our area at that time, both rumored to be doing opposite things. Might as well just sign Jan-July to one and aug-dec to the other.

MLS p2p clubs want the association with MLS because it brings in all kinds of players.

But.... They also want to keep doing things the way that customers (players) are running away from. Seems like the MLS p2p club owners are used to getting what they want and dont care if its what players want.

Eventually MLSN will create a seperate p2p league that p2p clubs can wear the badge but not actually field teams with players that are looking to play professionally.

You are making even less sense than usual today. Maybe take a nap.

First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you <---- you are here
Then you win

No. I am definitely laughing at you; and will now go back to ignoring you.

Watch what happens. MLS only wants a big pool of players to choose from for Homegrown. If all the p2p clubs want to change yo SY thats fine. But, they're only separating themselves from the pro pathway.

You really believe that the p2p clubs are a pro pathway?

I believe MLS p2p clubs are a pool of potential talent MLS homegrown can pull players from. I get that MLS HG pulls from everywhere but MLSN p2p clubs will have more opportunities and club connections to be identified.

I don’t think you understand the landscape the way you think you do. Your terminology is not making sense.

I believe that MLSN is going to split appart at a BY/SY line. Homegrown will stay BY and P2P will be a seperate SY league.

And that’s why I don’t think you understand how mlsnext is structured. Homegrown has P2P clubs in it. Most of homegrown is P2P clubs.

I realize this but it doesn't matter if there's a group of P2P clubs that want SY it makes sense to seperate the top teams as BY and everyone else or at least the p2p clubs that want SY into their own leagues. What this will do is create a tier 1 league thats BY and tier 2 league thats SY.

This is where I see things going. The MLS tier 1 league and tier 2 league teams can still play each other but one team would be playing up 6 months. Which could be addressed via biobanding.

Its also advantageous to have both a BY and SY league because it would make it easy for ECNL, etc teams to switch over to MLSN/GA.

Hey, you don’t have even a minimum knowledge of how MLSNext two divisions are composed.

Please stop embarrassing the forum with your nonsense. Prior to anything first take your time to learn the elemental details of how current MLS Next is structured.

Thanks.

I'll just save this post for later.

I'm going to give the original PP on this one latitude because MLSN did it to themselves. They essentially have their academies play in their own league but for marketing include the P2P also under the Homegrown label where no one is really homegrown and they essentially play in different leagues, heck the league exists to better be able to pouch and they called in Homegrown. Then under the 3rd tier after academies and then P2P in Homegrown they call the league Academy which has been subcontracted out to NAL. Then they have a 4th level called NAL, I think this one isn't so clear. So take up confusion with MLSN.

Well thank you...

What do you think will happen next if a group of MLSN p2p clubs keep pushing for SY? If both groups "the BY crowd" and "the SY crowd" get their way the end result will be seperate MLS leagues.

Also it makes sense for MLS to have a SY league so ECNL clubs switching over to MLSN/GA can do so without changing rosters from SY to BY.

He's saying they (MLSN P2P and the real MLSN Academies) are already in separate leagues (and yes, they basically are)... I do agree that MLSN themselves have made this discussion insane because of their decisions to call 'new' things terms that already existed in their own ecosystem. It would be like ECNL creating a 3rd league under RL and calling it National League. So I don't fault you on struggling with the names either.

All I'm saying is that if theres a significant number of MLSN clubs that want SY it would make sense to create a seperate league for this. The SY league would automatically become tier 2 or tier 3. Which in ECNL terminology would be the ECRL league.

What's causing issues for MLSN is that they're trying to be everything to everyone. Eventually if they keep scaling they'll need to create tiers/divisions. Making the lowest tier/division SY solves a lot of probelms.

The downside of this approach is that there would need to be enough MLSN SY clubs that are reasonably close to each other.

You’d be hard pressed to find enough p2p mlsnext 1 (sticking with numbers for the sake of clarity) that want to stay BY. There may be a few… doing something different in a saturated market, aligning with academies to continue to sell that dream) but it wouldn’t be enough to split mlsnext 1 and create a separate league. Mlsnext 1 teams are already spread out and the travel is insane, no way they can differentiate any further.

What could happen is the mls academies (affiliated mls clubs, not mlsnext 2) are BY and mlsnext 1 p2p is SY. That’s been discussed many times before on here.

They could rebrand MLsN2 to be MLSN school year. It already is only part of the year and allows HS ball. Makes perfect sense to just switch to SY and sell it as the MLSN version of ECNL.

Of course that breaks the idea that MLSN2 is some sort of pathway to MLSN but only naive u13 parents currently believe that.

They could keep mls1 BY and mls2 SY. Would be a nightmare for mls1 clubs that have mls2 for the second team but would at least keep the mls2 clubs (without mls1) in the league. If mls2 stays BY I think you lose the clubs without mls1 immediately, not worth the headache when ecnl/rl would provide a similar platform.

Yes. They would lose nearly all the clubs that have only mlsn2 teams. Thats is a huge number of clubs.

Sure, maybe some but the ones I have personal knowledge of chose MLSN2 over RL because there were already competing RL clubs near them. MLSN2 offered something different from RL.

Staying BY would be a major pain in the ass but i think most would stick it out at least initially. Longer term? Who knows.

[Anonymous]

All going Aug 1st next year and everyone will move on and worry about things that actually matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All going Aug 1st next year and everyone will move on and worry about things that actually matter

That would be great but this stuff will live on until MLSN announces and tryout season is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All going Aug 1st next year and everyone will move on and worry about things that actually matter

That would be great but this stuff will live on until MLSN announces and tryout season is over.

I think it will just be the crazy MLSN guy talking to himself, which it almost is now anyway.

[Anonymous]

The most odd thing of this all is that MLSN never announced they were staying BY last December. Its clear US soccer wanted to go to universal SY but got big time push back from MLSN. USYS and US club/ECNL get what they want and announce the change to SY last December. MLSN also gets what should be a big win for them as they probably strong armed US Soccer into not going universal SY. But then nothing. Total radio silence. A universal rule in PR 101 is announce your big wins. Why didn't MLSN put out a statement saying we are staying BY for the good of the game and for reasons A B and C and this will be great for youth soccer. But no, nothing. It was assumed by everyone they would stay BY but it left clubs with an incredible amount of uncertainty and ambiguity. And the more clubs thought about it, the less they liked MLSN staying BY. And they started to push back. And they were able to do so because MLSN didnt have any upper hand as they never announced anything in the first place. So MLSN got the pushback, said ut oh we better rethink this. And they are now undecided and here we are. The way this story unfolded makes me think MLSN has no choice but to switch to SY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most odd thing of this all is that MLSN never announced they were staying BY last December. Its clear US soccer wanted to go to universal SY but got big time push back from MLSN. USYS and US club/ECNL get what they want and announce the change to SY last December. MLSN also gets what should be a big win for them as they probably strong armed US Soccer into not going universal SY. But then nothing. Total radio silence. A universal rule in PR 101 is announce your big wins. Why didn't MLSN put out a statement saying we are staying BY for the good of the game and for reasons A B and C and this will be great for youth soccer. But no, nothing. It was assumed by everyone they would stay BY but it left clubs with an incredible amount of uncertainty and ambiguity. And the more clubs thought about it, the less they liked MLSN staying BY. And they started to push back. And they were able to do so because MLSN didnt have any upper hand as they never announced anything in the first place. So MLSN got the pushback, said ut oh we better rethink this. And they are now undecided and here we are. The way this story unfolded makes me think MLSN has no choice but to switch to SY.

Seems they are delaying announcing BY to stop or mitigate clubs and players from jumping ship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most odd thing of this all is that MLSN never announced they were staying BY last December. Its clear US soccer wanted to go to universal SY but got big time push back from MLSN. USYS and US club/ECNL get what they want and announce the change to SY last December. MLSN also gets what should be a big win for them as they probably strong armed US Soccer into not going universal SY. But then nothing. Total radio silence. A universal rule in PR 101 is announce your big wins. Why didn't MLSN put out a statement saying we are staying BY for the good of the game and for reasons A B and C and this will be great for youth soccer. But no, nothing. It was assumed by everyone they would stay BY but it left clubs with an incredible amount of uncertainty and ambiguity. And the more clubs thought about it, the less they liked MLSN staying BY. And they started to push back. And they were able to do so because MLSN didnt have any upper hand as they never announced anything in the first place. So MLSN got the pushback, said ut oh we better rethink this. And they are now undecided and here we are. The way this story unfolded makes me think MLSN has no choice but to switch to SY.

Seems they are delaying announcing BY to stop or mitigate clubs and players from jumping ship.

Doesn’t work in the long run because clubs will have no trouble staying BY next year. There is no feeder system issue until 27/28. Would be annoying to switch everything but MLSN teams but not a deal breaker. Then clubs have the year to figure out what league they want to go to (if they are in fact leaving).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All going Aug 1st next year and everyone will move on and worry about things that actually matter

Don't care, fine either way, want clarity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All going Aug 1st next year and everyone will move on and worry about things that actually matter

Don't care, fine either way, want clarity.

This thread is the wrong place for all of that.

[Anonymous]

What is a FACT is that MLSN has moved from a) BY for sure, to b) rethink about it.

According to our club, it has been p2p clubs push what is making MLSN reconsidering the situation.

Let’s remember that MLS academies are vastly outnumbered by p2p clubs in the MLSN ecosystem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most odd thing of this all is that MLSN never announced they were staying BY last December. Its clear US soccer wanted to go to universal SY but got big time push back from MLSN. USYS and US club/ECNL get what they want and announce the change to SY last December. MLSN also gets what should be a big win for them as they probably strong armed US Soccer into not going universal SY. But then nothing. Total radio silence. A universal rule in PR 101 is announce your big wins. Why didn't MLSN put out a statement saying we are staying BY for the good of the game and for reasons A B and C and this will be great for youth soccer. But no, nothing. It was assumed by everyone they would stay BY but it left clubs with an incredible amount of uncertainty and ambiguity. And the more clubs thought about it, the less they liked MLSN staying BY. And they started to push back. And they were able to do so because MLSN didnt have any upper hand as they never announced anything in the first place. So MLSN got the pushback, said ut oh we better rethink this. And they are now undecided and here we are. The way this story unfolded makes me think MLSN has no choice but to switch to SY.

Yeah, almost as stupid as the new naming system they came up with for MLSN1 and MLSN2. Just a masterclass in piss poor marketing and comms. It is almost like the entire thing is staffed via nepotism and people who know nothing about youth soccer. Weird right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is a FACT is that MLSN has moved from a) BY for sure, to b) rethink about it.

According to our club, it has been p2p clubs push what is making MLSN reconsidering the situation.

Let’s remember that MLS academies are vastly outnumbered by p2p clubs in the MLSN ecosystem.

We assume they wanted 'BY for sure' (and that is likely) but I do not know anyone who actually has ever heard, one way or the other, anything from MLSN on this. No clubs know anything (anything you have heard from a club is just that, 2nd hand at best), and the MLSN2 clubs (who this would really impact) are completely in the dark.

Let's not forget, they basically doubled in size with these new MLSN2 clubs and have now just left them completely out to dry. WTF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is a FACT is that MLSN has moved from a) BY for sure, to b) rethink about it.

According to our club, it has been p2p clubs push what is making MLSN reconsidering the situation.

Let’s remember that MLS academies are vastly outnumbered by p2p clubs in the MLSN ecosystem.

Extremely likely that all p2p go SY. The clubs have spoken. MLSN will have to weigh if it is worth keeping the academies BY . Doing so would muddy the image of a pro pathway for p2p parents/players. But having them play up against p2p by 5 months would be better matchups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most odd thing of this all is that MLSN never announced they were staying BY last December. Its clear US soccer wanted to go to universal SY but got big time push back from MLSN. USYS and US club/ECNL get what they want and announce the change to SY last December. MLSN also gets what should be a big win for them as they probably strong armed US Soccer into not going universal SY. But then nothing. Total radio silence. A universal rule in PR 101 is announce your big wins. Why didn't MLSN put out a statement saying we are staying BY for the good of the game and for reasons A B and C and this will be great for youth soccer. But no, nothing. It was assumed by everyone they would stay BY but it left clubs with an incredible amount of uncertainty and ambiguity. And the more clubs thought about it, the less they liked MLSN staying BY. And they started to push back. And they were able to do so because MLSN didnt have any upper hand as they never announced anything in the first place. So MLSN got the pushback, said ut oh we better rethink this. And they are now undecided and here we are. The way this story unfolded makes me think MLSN has no choice but to switch to SY.

Yeah, almost as stupid as the new naming system they came up with for MLSN1 and MLSN2. Just a masterclass in piss poor marketing and comms. It is almost like the entire thing is staffed via nepotism and people who know nothing about youth soccer. Weird right?

It’s absurd. It took this much pushing from p2p clubs to make them realize they exist within the broader system of youth soccer in this country and not on an island by themselves? The US soccer meeting was 12 months ago and USYS/us club announcement was 8 months ago!