Does anyone ever *not* qualify for the Hopkins CTY program? (Cross post with AAP forum)

[RedTailHawk]

n.b. I previously posted this on the AAP forum.

I know that the value of the program has debated on this forum in the past but this is a slightly different question.

I'm trying to make a point with my child's (MCPS) teachers that she is quite capable of learning to write well. At this point she consistently gets I's in writing and I'd like her to get some explicit instruction that takes into account her history of learning problems and language disorder.

She qualifies for gifted writers programs at CTY based on last spring's SCAT test results. I interpret this to mean that CTY "thinks" she should be capable of writing well.

I don't think the CTY program is nearly as exclusive as they would like parents to believe but I would like to better understand if the SCAT results have any meaning for her teachers. If it is the case that pretty much every child in her class would pass the CTY cut score then it isn't meaningful. (This is a low FARMS, W feeder type school.)

I've never heard of anyone not meeting the SCAT cut score but CTY is not something I hear discussed often.

Thank you.

p.s. - I have no intention of signing her up for a CTY writing program. She took the test because I thought she might enjoy a different summer camp at Sandy Spring. She ended not attending any CTY camps because none of her friends were interested in going.

[Anonymous]

What is her MAP-R score. That is what MCPS reviews. Also, PARCC scores will be released soon. The county obviously will put more weight on tests they administer. Also, I would take the ES-N ( spelled PENIS) grades with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous]

My son has never taken the test you mention, so I can't answer your question directly, but my opinion is this: the teachers don't have access to the whole picture and that's why they're not convinced.

DS is gifted with learning disorders (GT/LD). His teachers have NEVER been aware of his gifts and NEVER believe me when I tell them (IQ scores in hand) - because only his learning disorders are visible during class. Teachers are convinced by the behavior they witness personally, not by a piece of paper, which makes a certain degree of sense.

And I hear you about the writing: my son has won commendations and a prize for his writings. In 4th grade, he got Ns for writing. It makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

[Anonymous]

You should have said you have a boy. Those grades are behavior grades not academic grades. Been there, dealt with that. MCPS teachers always give crappy grades to boys with ADHD especially in something subjective like writing.

[RedTailHawk]

Anonymous wrote:What is her MAP-R score. That is what MCPS reviews. Also, PARCC scores will be released soon. The county obviously will put more weight on tests they administer. Also, I would take the ES-N ( spelled PENIS) grades with a grain of salt.

OP here: I thought MAP-R was a measure of reading skill/progress. Does MCPS have any standardized measure for writing skills?

Obviously a standardized MCPS recognized writing skills/ability assessment would be helpful but I'm not aware of any.

We have all sorts of outside testing reports but I've yet to meet a teacher with the interest/available time/background to read them. I thought the discrepancy between CTY eligibility and classroom grades might be a "short hand" way to make the point.

Just to be clear, I don't disagree that her work products deserve the "I" grade. I do believe (and outside tutors have demonstrated) that she is very capable of learning to write well. As I understand it, the SCAT measures "building block" skills like vocabulary where she is strong. Classroom performance is more impacted by working memory, spacial planning, etc type deficits. My goal is for the school to realize a greater effort is required on their part for her to become a proficient writer.

[Anonymous]

The CTY test is not a writing test either. Unfortunately it doesn't matter what tests you provide because MCPS does not offer much GT until the 4th grade HGC programs.

[Anonymous]

RedTailHawk wrote:n.b. I previously posted this on the AAP forum.

I know that the value of the program has debated on this forum in the past but this is a slightly different question.

I'm trying to make a point with my child's (MCPS) teachers that she is quite capable of learning to write well. At this point she consistently gets I's in writing and I'd like her to get some explicit instruction that takes into account her history of learning problems and language disorder.

She qualifies for gifted writers programs at CTY based on last spring's SCAT test results. I interpret this to mean that CTY "thinks" she should be capable of writing well.

I don't think the CTY program is nearly as exclusive as they would like parents to believe but I would like to better understand if the SCAT results have any meaning for her teachers. If it is the case that pretty much every child in her class would pass the CTY cut score then it isn't meaningful. (This is a low FARMS, W feeder type school.)

I've never heard of anyone not meeting the SCAT cut score but CTY is not something I hear discussed often.

Thank you.

p.s. - I have no intention of signing her up for a CTY writing program. She took the test because I thought she might enjoy a different summer camp at Sandy Spring. She ended not attending any CTY camps because none of her friends were interested in going.

I have a GT kid with SLD/dysgraphia. DC would not score high enough on SCAT to qualify, I suspect, as this DC always does poorly on these standardized tests due to trouble with dyslexia and attention. DC2 did easily qualify for CTY.

You are going about making your case the wrong way. The teacher can't provide anything special in terms of instruction to your child. The best a teacher can do is make minor modifications in the existing general instruction. The teacher is only concerned about having your DC meet whatever the lowest bar is for "proficiency"; the teacher doesn't care if your child might be capable of more.

If you want your kid to get "explicit writing instruction" that takes into account her "history of learning problems and language disorder" then what you are REALLY asking for in "school speak" is "specialized instruction" provided as part of an "IEP". Furthermore when you reference the SCAT scores, what you are saying is that you think your child is "gifted" (as shown by qualifying for CTY) but also has a "learning disability" (due to the language disorder). This means that when the IEP team evaluates your child to see if there is any "adverse impact" on learning, they should not be looking at overall proficiency but rather at "significant differences" between "strengths and weaknesses" (like having very strong reading scores but barely being able to write a sentence or paragraph).

Write a letter to the school. Say that you believe your child, who has a history of "learning problems and a language disorder" needs an "IEP" because your child's language disorder is having an "adverse impact" on her ability to learn to write and that she needs "specialized instruction" to learn to write to a level that is commensurate with her ability.

The school will then be obligated to hold an IEP meeting within 30 days, provide an assessment of ability and achievement within another 60 days if you consent (or you could pay for a private assessment), and before a total of 90 days have passed from receipt of your written letter hold an IEP determination meeting (as to whether the child qualifies for specialized instruction).

You will have to prove 3 things: 1) disorder (the language disorder and, presumably, a specific learning disability like dysgraphia, perhaps others like ADHD depending what the psychoeducational assessment shows) 2) adverse impact of the disorder on education (this can be inability to participate in class, difficulty with homework, low achievement scores significantly discrepant from ability in particular areas, continuing to get Is despite instruction, etc.) and 3) need for specialized instruction (this tends to flow from 1 and 2, but you can show that DC is not improving in skills when provided with the "general education instruction," and thus needs some other kind of instruction).

How do you know about the learning difficulties and language disorder? Did you have a private assessment? Then provide it to the school as part of your IEP request.

[Anonymous]

It's funny you ask that. My son is 5 and loves math. He was getting in the way of his sister doing her homework. I had him tested for CTY so I could access their online math programs. I've always wondered if everyone qualifies.

[Anonymous]

CTY is a self-selecting group, so yes many kids "pass" because they are in fact well-prepared, but not everyone does.
SCAT does not test writing ability but verbal ability, not the same.
ES requirements are not the same as creative writing. If your child is not following the rubric they will not do well.