Math Placement Letters APS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the person saying APS is transparent— are you kidding? They change the criteria every couple of years and never advertise it until after the placements are done. I tried to ask my kid’s 5th grade teacher & the ES math coach what the cut-offs are, and they don’t know. The information is not shared with them, and their recommendation is not considered.

And APS doesn’t advertise the fact that you can parent place. We got a ton of pushback and initially refusal to move the kid when we tried.

You want to know the cut offs so you can berate/coach your kid?

I don't think parents should be able to place kids. They don't advertise it because pushy people try to get their kid in the advanced math which dilutes the class and causes problems down the road. I think there could and should be some other data-driven way of kids demonstrating they belong in the class. But mom and dad want me to be in the class shouldn't be a method.

No, not so I could coach my kid. Just so I could have some idea when the SOL and MAP scores come. And the kid I parent-placed has gotten a high A in every math class so far (through 10th) & is definitely on the right path for him.

Getting an A in APS anything means your son or daughter isn’t unable to generally grasp the concept and shows up and is able to follow basic instructions and follow through with basic assignments. It does not in any way shape or form indicate that your son or daughter is in fact a very good student at the particular class. Look at the top of the class. There are over a 100 kids with over a 4.0. So saying you pushed your child in math and they got an A does not convince me that accelerated math was in fact the best choice for said student. All this because APS does not report any AP exam results because the kids are pushed through and not actually being educated to get 4s and 5s on the content. It’s so unfortunate and in the end hurts the kids.

Not our experience with my high school kid. He studies for tests and everything. Maybe he is just dumb compared to your kid though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who can see a class listed on ParentVue—do you have riding 6th graders?

I see classes listed under "course request" and yes I have a rising 6th grader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the person saying APS is transparent— are you kidding? They change the criteria every couple of years and never advertise it until after the placements are done. I tried to ask my kid’s 5th grade teacher & the ES math coach what the cut-offs are, and they don’t know. The information is not shared with them, and their recommendation is not considered.

And APS doesn’t advertise the fact that you can parent place. We got a ton of pushback and initially refusal to move the kid when we tried.

You want to know the cut offs so you can berate/coach your kid?

I don't think parents should be able to place kids. They don't advertise it because pushy people try to get their kid in the advanced math which dilutes the class and causes problems down the road. I think there could and should be some other data-driven way of kids demonstrating they belong in the class. But mom and dad want me to be in the class shouldn't be a method.

No, not so I could coach my kid. Just so I could have some idea when the SOL and MAP scores come. And the kid I parent-placed has gotten a high A in every math class so far (through 10th) & is definitely on the right path for him.

Getting an A in APS anything means your son or daughter isn’t unable to generally grasp the concept and shows up and is able to follow basic instructions and follow through with basic assignments. It does not in any way shape or form indicate that your son or daughter is in fact a very good student at the particular class. Look at the top of the class. There are over a 100 kids with over a 4.0. So saying you pushed your child in math and they got an A does not convince me that accelerated math was in fact the best choice for said student. All this because APS does not report any AP exam results because the kids are pushed through and not actually being educated to get 4s and 5s on the content. It’s so unfortunate and in the end hurts the kids.

Ok, well, kid has only completed precalc so far, but got a 5 on that AP exam. But anyway, a kid who gets an A in all those math classes clearly isn’t in the wrong class. Plenty of kids in those classes my kid had taken did not get As. And test scores (re: placement) don’t always show the whole picture.

Yeah I’m not sure what PP is arguing. A kid who gets an A in a math is in the right class. They’ve got an A in a higher level class- they’d be bored in a lower class and too many kids in that situation leads to boredom at the cost of the kids who really need to be there.
And I’m not sure how you can say it doesn’t show they understand the material. It’s math. There’s a right and wrong answer. It’s not English or art where it’s more discretionary. At least in my kids math classes a huge percentage of the grade was from tests and quizzes - not from showing up.

Yes and no. Most math classes will teach the formula, when to use the formula, and might go into why the formula works. Kids are likely to complete one or two step solutions. Kids who are really strong in math are able to go past that foundational level understanding and are completing more complicated problems. Look at the types of questions on math competitions. They are built on the foundational material taught in classes but most kids who only have that background are not going to do well in the competition. The way the problems ask for math to be used is more creative and requires thinking about the problem differently. Many times, there are multiple solutions and students are graded on how creative their solution is.

I am not saying that kids are not earning their A in Algebra 2, Pre-Calc, or Calc BC just that there is far more to math, even at that level, then what kids are being taught. I am someone who struggled to get a B in math classes, my kid is one who loves math competitions. Listening to him talk to my husband about different solutions to problems and walk through solutions makes it very clear to me that there is the math you learn in school and then there is really understanding and absorbing math. Kind of like there is learning how to write a poem in English and a kid who is a poet. But we teach math as if it is black and white but there are many shades of gray in the field.

What does any of this have to do with placing kids in the correct middle school math class? It doesn't. The requirement isn't to be a math nerd or prodigy, but to be able to understand the content and succeed in the APS course. Getting an A in a math course absolutely demonstrates that the kid was able to be successful in the course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the person saying APS is transparent— are you kidding? They change the criteria every couple of years and never advertise it until after the placements are done. I tried to ask my kid’s 5th grade teacher & the ES math coach what the cut-offs are, and they don’t know. The information is not shared with them, and their recommendation is not considered.

And APS doesn’t advertise the fact that you can parent place. We got a ton of pushback and initially refusal to move the kid when we tried.

You want to know the cut offs so you can berate/coach your kid?

I don't think parents should be able to place kids. They don't advertise it because pushy people try to get their kid in the advanced math which dilutes the class and causes problems down the road. I think there could and should be some other data-driven way of kids demonstrating they belong in the class. But mom and dad want me to be in the class shouldn't be a method.

No, not so I could coach my kid. Just so I could have some idea when the SOL and MAP scores come. And the kid I parent-placed has gotten a high A in every math class so far (through 10th) & is definitely on the right path for him.

Getting an A in APS anything means your son or daughter isn’t unable to generally grasp the concept and shows up and is able to follow basic instructions and follow through with basic assignments. It does not in any way shape or form indicate that your son or daughter is in fact a very good student at the particular class. Look at the top of the class. There are over a 100 kids with over a 4.0. So saying you pushed your child in math and they got an A does not convince me that accelerated math was in fact the best choice for said student. All this because APS does not report any AP exam results because the kids are pushed through and not actually being educated to get 4s and 5s on the content. It’s so unfortunate and in the end hurts the kids.

Ok, well, kid has only completed precalc so far, but got a 5 on that AP exam. But anyway, a kid who gets an A in all those math classes clearly isn’t in the wrong class. Plenty of kids in those classes my kid had taken did not get As. And test scores (re: placement) don’t always show the whole picture.

Yeah I’m not sure what PP is arguing. A kid who gets an A in a math is in the right class. They’ve got an A in a higher level class- they’d be bored in a lower class and too many kids in that situation leads to boredom at the cost of the kids who really need to be there.
And I’m not sure how you can say it doesn’t show they understand the material. It’s math. There’s a right and wrong answer. It’s not English or art where it’s more discretionary. At least in my kids math classes a huge percentage of the grade was from tests and quizzes - not from showing up.

Yes and no. Most math classes will teach the formula, when to use the formula, and might go into why the formula works. Kids are likely to complete one or two step solutions. Kids who are really strong in math are able to go past that foundational level understanding and are completing more complicated problems. Look at the types of questions on math competitions. They are built on the foundational material taught in classes but most kids who only have that background are not going to do well in the competition. The way the problems ask for math to be used is more creative and requires thinking about the problem differently. Many times, there are multiple solutions and students are graded on how creative their solution is.

I am not saying that kids are not earning their A in Algebra 2, Pre-Calc, or Calc BC just that there is far more to math, even at that level, then what kids are being taught. I am someone who struggled to get a B in math classes, my kid is one who loves math competitions. Listening to him talk to my husband about different solutions to problems and walk through solutions makes it very clear to me that there is the math you learn in school and then there is really understanding and absorbing math. Kind of like there is learning how to write a poem in English and a kid who is a poet. But we teach math as if it is black and white but there are many shades of gray in the field.

What does any of this have to do with placing kids in the correct middle school math class? It doesn't. The requirement isn't to be a math nerd or prodigy, but to be able to understand the content and succeed in the APS course. Getting an A in a math course absolutely demonstrates that the kid was able to be successful in the course.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the person saying APS is transparent— are you kidding? They change the criteria every couple of years and never advertise it until after the placements are done. I tried to ask my kid’s 5th grade teacher & the ES math coach what the cut-offs are, and they don’t know. The information is not shared with them, and their recommendation is not considered.

And APS doesn’t advertise the fact that you can parent place. We got a ton of pushback and initially refusal to move the kid when we tried.

You want to know the cut offs so you can berate/coach your kid?

I don't think parents should be able to place kids. They don't advertise it because pushy people try to get their kid in the advanced math which dilutes the class and causes problems down the road. I think there could and should be some other data-driven way of kids demonstrating they belong in the class. But mom and dad want me to be in the class shouldn't be a method.

No, not so I could coach my kid. Just so I could have some idea when the SOL and MAP scores come. And the kid I parent-placed has gotten a high A in every math class so far (through 10th) & is definitely on the right path for him.

Getting an A in APS anything means your son or daughter isn’t unable to generally grasp the concept and shows up and is able to follow basic instructions and follow through with basic assignments. It does not in any way shape or form indicate that your son or daughter is in fact a very good student at the particular class. Look at the top of the class. There are over a 100 kids with over a 4.0. So saying you pushed your child in math and they got an A does not convince me that accelerated math was in fact the best choice for said student. All this because APS does not report any AP exam results because the kids are pushed through and not actually being educated to get 4s and 5s on the content. It’s so unfortunate and in the end hurts the kids.

Sorry, disagree. They don't hand out easy As in Int. Alg 2/ Trig, precalculus, BC Calculus and multivariable. They just don't.

Yeah this sounds like someone whose kid is younger or hasn't taken the hard upper level classes yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the person saying APS is transparent— are you kidding? They change the criteria every couple of years and never advertise it until after the placements are done. I tried to ask my kid’s 5th grade teacher & the ES math coach what the cut-offs are, and they don’t know. The information is not shared with them, and their recommendation is not considered.

And APS doesn’t advertise the fact that you can parent place. We got a ton of pushback and initially refusal to move the kid when we tried.

You want to know the cut offs so you can berate/coach your kid?

I don't think parents should be able to place kids. They don't advertise it because pushy people try to get their kid in the advanced math which dilutes the class and causes problems down the road. I think there could and should be some other data-driven way of kids demonstrating they belong in the class. But mom and dad want me to be in the class shouldn't be a method.

No, not so I could coach my kid. Just so I could have some idea when the SOL and MAP scores come. And the kid I parent-placed has gotten a high A in every math class so far (through 10th) & is definitely on the right path for him.

Getting an A in APS anything means your son or daughter isn’t unable to generally grasp the concept and shows up and is able to follow basic instructions and follow through with basic assignments. It does not in any way shape or form indicate that your son or daughter is in fact a very good student at the particular class. Look at the top of the class. There are over a 100 kids with over a 4.0. So saying you pushed your child in math and they got an A does not convince me that accelerated math was in fact the best choice for said student. All this because APS does not report any AP exam results because the kids are pushed through and not actually being educated to get 4s and 5s on the content. It’s so unfortunate and in the end hurts the kids.

Ok, well, kid has only completed precalc so far, but got a 5 on that AP exam. But anyway, a kid who gets an A in all those math classes clearly isn’t in the wrong class. Plenty of kids in those classes my kid had taken did not get As. And test scores (re: placement) don’t always show the whole picture.

Yeah I’m not sure what PP is arguing. A kid who gets an A in a math is in the right class. They’ve got an A in a higher level class- they’d be bored in a lower class and too many kids in that situation leads to boredom at the cost of the kids who really need to be there.
And I’m not sure how you can say it doesn’t show they understand the material. It’s math. There’s a right and wrong answer. It’s not English or art where it’s more discretionary. At least in my kids math classes a huge percentage of the grade was from tests and quizzes - not from showing up.

Yes and no. Most math classes will teach the formula, when to use the formula, and might go into why the formula works. Kids are likely to complete one or two step solutions. Kids who are really strong in math are able to go past that foundational level understanding and are completing more complicated problems. Look at the types of questions on math competitions. They are built on the foundational material taught in classes but most kids who only have that background are not going to do well in the competition. The way the problems ask for math to be used is more creative and requires thinking about the problem differently. Many times, there are multiple solutions and students are graded on how creative their solution is.

I am not saying that kids are not earning their A in Algebra 2, Pre-Calc, or Calc BC just that there is far more to math, even at that level, then what kids are being taught. I am someone who struggled to get a B in math classes, my kid is one who loves math competitions. Listening to him talk to my husband about different solutions to problems and walk through solutions makes it very clear to me that there is the math you learn in school and then there is really understanding and absorbing math. Kind of like there is learning how to write a poem in English and a kid who is a poet. But we teach math as if it is black and white but there are many shades of gray in the field.

then your issue is with how math is taught in public schools, not with placement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the person saying APS is transparent— are you kidding? They change the criteria every couple of years and never advertise it until after the placements are done. I tried to ask my kid’s 5th grade teacher & the ES math coach what the cut-offs are, and they don’t know. The information is not shared with them, and their recommendation is not considered.

And APS doesn’t advertise the fact that you can parent place. We got a ton of pushback and initially refusal to move the kid when we tried.

You want to know the cut offs so you can berate/coach your kid?

I don't think parents should be able to place kids. They don't advertise it because pushy people try to get their kid in the advanced math which dilutes the class and causes problems down the road. I think there could and should be some other data-driven way of kids demonstrating they belong in the class. But mom and dad want me to be in the class shouldn't be a method.

No, not so I could coach my kid. Just so I could have some idea when the SOL and MAP scores come. And the kid I parent-placed has gotten a high A in every math class so far (through 10th) & is definitely on the right path for him.

Getting an A in APS anything means your son or daughter isn’t unable to generally grasp the concept and shows up and is able to follow basic instructions and follow through with basic assignments. It does not in any way shape or form indicate that your son or daughter is in fact a very good student at the particular class. Look at the top of the class. There are over a 100 kids with over a 4.0. So saying you pushed your child in math and they got an A does not convince me that accelerated math was in fact the best choice for said student. All this because APS does not report any AP exam results because the kids are pushed through and not actually being educated to get 4s and 5s on the content. It’s so unfortunate and in the end hurts the kids.

Sorry, disagree. They don't hand out easy As in Int. Alg 2/ Trig, precalculus, BC Calculus and multivariable. They just don't.

Unfortunately APS doesn’t provide data on AP exam results to support your argument that the kids are in fact learning the material. And I get that it’s hard for some kids; don’t disagree with you. I just don’t think A in APS means too much — there are too many kids getting those As.

But how do you know they don't deserve them? There are a lot of really smart kids in APS.

[Anonymous]

Ohhhh just FYI…yep…I was poster about seeing prealgebra as my son’s class…now it’s math 6 advanced. Now I’m torn…he is not a math genius but has consistently done well on all the standardized tests (aside from cogat which was laughable). Super confused as to what scores qualified for prealgebra as opposed to this new math 6 advanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ohhhh just FYI…yep…I was poster about seeing prealgebra as my son’s class…now it’s math 6 advanced. Now I’m torn…he is not a math genius but has consistently done well on all the standardized tests (aside from cogat which was laughable). Super confused as to what scores qualified for prealgebra as opposed to this new math 6 advanced.

No one is going to have information as Math 6 advanced is a new course. We'll have to wait for the placement letters.

[Anonymous]

Still don’t see any math course listed in Parentvue. So what are the options at this point—math 6, math 6 advanced and pre-algebra? Didn’t realize they were adding a course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still don’t see any math course listed in Parentvue. So what are the options at this point—math 6, math 6 advanced and pre-algebra? Didn’t realize they were adding a course.

The adding a course is bs. As is changing the criteria do kids who originally placed in algebra intensified that then got moved to regular algebra. Let’s accept this for what it is— aps does not have enough calculus teachers in highschool, so they want to limit the number of kids who are on that track so they don’t have to hire more teachers. It’s bs, and it’s totally against the spirit of the state law that was passed. These are smart kids. Why is aps not letting them take advanced classes if both them and their parents want them to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still don’t see any math course listed in Parentvue. So what are the options at this point—math 6, math 6 advanced and pre-algebra? Didn’t realize they were adding a course.

The new law means they need to an advanced option for the top 25% of SOL scores. Not all those kids are ready for pre-algebra so they need to add a class. APS's hand was forced. But people have asked for in between option for 6th grade math for years, so it's an excellent addition IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still don’t see any math course listed in Parentvue. So what are the options at this point—math 6, math 6 advanced and pre-algebra? Didn’t realize they were adding a course.

The new law means they need to an advanced option for the top 25% of SOL scores. Not all those kids are ready for pre-algebra so they need to add a class. APS's hand was forced. But people have asked for in between option for 6th grade math for years, so it's an excellent addition IMO.

Agree with this! Doesn't make sense that intensified classes were offered for everything except math (other than the kids ready for pre-algebra).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still don’t see any math course listed in Parentvue. So what are the options at this point—math 6, math 6 advanced and pre-algebra? Didn’t realize they were adding a course.

The new law means they need to an advanced option for the top 25% of SOL scores. Not all those kids are ready for pre-algebra so they need to add a class. APS's hand was forced. But people have asked for in between option for 6th grade math for years, so it's an excellent addition IMO.

Agree with this

[Anonymous]

I agree that a third, middle option is a good idea. I just wish they would communicate all of this and keep the same standards year to year instead of keeping everyone always guessing.