How does one prep place account for 25% of TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

[Anonymous]

Indians do not expect equality. In fact they expect that they will be overlooked in all opportunities. That is the reason the emphasis is on bettering oneself and working harder. It also means they live super frugally so that they can spend the money on educational resources. It seems to be working well, so whatever others have to say does not matter. This trait also means that they are focussed inwards. They don't self advocate and they don't question any shit that authority figures throw on them.

Finally, Indian parents will stay together in a marriage united by the goal of seeing their kids succeed and giving them a leg-up. Anything else is disruptive to their children. This alone (intact marriages and little dysfunction) helps the Indian children in all ways.

My White neighbor had all the advantages I could think of when their and our kids were little. They were White, Blue-eyed, Blond, from a very well known, 1%er, having their own wikipedia page, East Coast family - even though they themselves were middle class. They would never have any problems getting into Ivies, getting internships or getting a job etc. The wife became a teacher, slept with her student and was thrown out. Parents divorced. The father became a dope-head, kids are grown up, daughter did not go to a college and has gone into nefarious things earning a living on her back. All their advantages have come to zero. Thankfully they moved to Florida.

I see a lot of families like this. Most of the times these families have a lot of problem and it implodes during the school years of their kids. My thought is that such selfishness does not help the children. They can spend money on everything but paying for their kids college. They can spend money on booze but not cooking for their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indians do not expect equality. In fact they expect that they will be overlooked in all opportunities. That is the reason the emphasis is on bettering oneself and working harder. It also means they live super frugally so that they can spend the money on educational resources. It seems to be working well, so whatever others have to say does not matter. This trait also means that they are focussed inwards. They don't self advocate and they don't question any shit that authority figures throw on them.

Finally, Indian parents will stay together in a marriage united by the goal of seeing their kids succeed and giving them a leg-up. Anything else is disruptive to their children. This alone (intact marriages and little dysfunction) helps the Indian children in all ways.

My White neighbor had all the advantages I could think of when their and our kids were little. They were White, Blue-eyed, Blond, from a very well known, 1%er, having their own wikipedia page, East Coast family - even though they themselves were middle class. They would never have any problems getting into Ivies, getting internships or getting a job etc. The wife became a teacher, slept with her student and was thrown out. Parents divorced. The father became a dope-head, kids are grown up, daughter did not go to a college and has gone into nefarious things earning a living on her back. All their advantages have come to zero. Thankfully they moved to Florida.

I see a lot of families like this. Most of the times these families have a lot of problem and it implodes during the school years of their kids. My thought is that such selfishness does not help the children. They can spend money on everything but paying for their kids college. They can spend money on booze but not cooking for their children.

Yup and then they bitch and moan about how Asians study too much and how they are achieving success only because they are cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

10:24 here.

You have described me, my family and my friends really well.
As I've gotten older, I've also found that this cultural thing has affected by career negatively in some ways, especially when dealing with entitlement from whites. It really does make an interesting dynamic in the office. Once you are aware, you see it everywhere. I can also now see where blacks and hispanics have some disadvantages that we SE Asians don't have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

10:24 here.

You have described me, my family and my friends really well.
As I've gotten older, I've also found that this cultural thing has affected by career negatively in some ways, especially when dealing with entitlement from whites. It really does make an interesting dynamic in the office. Once you are aware, you see it everywhere. I can also now see where blacks and hispanics have some disadvantages that we SE Asians don't have.

I think people really underestimate the extent to which kids from those communities are consistently presumed to be lacking in intelligence from such an early age. People make fun of the term "microaggressions" but it really is a thing - the way so many educators interact with Black and Hispanic kids just sort of assumes that their only way to succeed in life is outside of academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

So let her put her name to it. Let her make a public statement that I, Jane Doe, worked in public education and I am discriminating against Indian students through this lens. Own it. You are all such keyboard warriors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indians do not expect equality. In fact they expect that they will be overlooked in all opportunities. That is the reason the emphasis is on bettering oneself and working harder. It also means they live super frugally so that they can spend the money on educational resources. It seems to be working well, so whatever others have to say does not matter. This trait also means that they are focussed inwards. They don't self advocate and they don't question any shit that authority figures throw on them.

Finally, Indian parents will stay together in a marriage united by the goal of seeing their kids succeed and giving them a leg-up. Anything else is disruptive to their children. This alone (intact marriages and little dysfunction) helps the Indian children in all ways.

My White neighbor had all the advantages I could think of when their and our kids were little. They were White, Blue-eyed, Blond, from a very well known, 1%er, having their own wikipedia page, East Coast family - even though they themselves were middle class. They would never have any problems getting into Ivies, getting internships or getting a job etc. The wife became a teacher, slept with her student and was thrown out. Parents divorced. The father became a dope-head, kids are grown up, daughter did not go to a college and has gone into nefarious things earning a living on her back. All their advantages have come to zero. Thankfully they moved to Florida.

I see a lot of families like this. Most of the times these families have a lot of problem and it implodes during the school years of their kids. My thought is that such selfishness does not help the children. They can spend money on everything but paying for their kids college. They can spend money on booze but not cooking for their children.

Traditionally, in Indian culture divorce (and pre-marital sex) is considered a taboo especially for women, though its changing and educated families have become more accepting. The downside is there is some abuse towards women in less educated families as women are considered dependent on husbands and cannot leave the marriage. Indian couples often have similar marital issues as white couples and its not uncommon for extended family or friends to get involved to work out the differences. In any case, its a common understanding between parents that kids shouldn't be disrupted and parents try very hard to keep their differences aside for kids. Once kids come into the picture, their entire life revolves around the kids happiness and success. I know, its difficult to get our heads around, Indian arranged (or semi-arranged) marriages tend to work and have very low divorce rate because couples have little expectations going into the marriage and relationships are built up on a strong support system. Couples know that they don't always have to be happy or fill each others lines to make the marriage work.

Since education is considered the most important asset, Indian parents happily give up luxuries and free time and throw all the available resources at them so kids have a leg up. I personally know one couple who sold their home (I even said its not a good idea) and wife had to go to work so they could pay for their kids college with out loans. I agree that it can be overwhelming and stressful to some kids but they try to manage with full support from parents. So, the only thing that kids really need to worry about is their education and career with confidence that their parents never abandon them and keep them on track. However, this sort of protection is not always good for Indian kids as they tend to be less prepared for the real world and as a previous poster correctly said, they can appear to be rigid or inflexible until they become independent and start figuring on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

10:24 here.

You have described me, my family and my friends really well.
As I've gotten older, I've also found that this cultural thing has affected by career negatively in some ways, especially when dealing with entitlement from whites. It really does make an interesting dynamic in the office. Once you are aware, you see it everywhere. I can also now see where blacks and hispanics have some disadvantages that we SE Asians don't have.

I think people really underestimate the extent to which kids from those communities are consistently presumed to be lacking in intelligence from such an early age. People make fun of the term "microaggressions" but it really is a thing - the way so many educators interact with Black and Hispanic kids just sort of assumes that their only way to succeed in life is outside of academics.

And now we know we've been underestimating the extent to which people who "work in public education" see all Indians as memorizing, regurgitating robots free of creativity and flexibility. All Indian parents should absorb this - no matter how much you sacrifice and invest in your child's education, there'll be a woman (or a man!) thinking - here comes another Kumar, he sure knows his multiplication tables but he can't innovate worth crap so let's go to the next file.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

Of course they exist for a reason. Racism is the reason.

What is the reason stereotypes about Blacks and Hispanics exist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

10:24 here.

You have described me, my family and my friends really well.
As I've gotten older, I've also found that this cultural thing has affected by career negatively in some ways, especially when dealing with entitlement from whites. It really does make an interesting dynamic in the office. Once you are aware, you see it everywhere. I can also now see where blacks and hispanics have some disadvantages that we SE Asians don't have.

I think people really underestimate the extent to which kids from those communities are consistently presumed to be lacking in intelligence from such an early age. People make fun of the term "microaggressions" but it really is a thing - the way so many educators interact with Black and Hispanic kids just sort of assumes that their only way to succeed in life is outside of academics.

And now we know we've been underestimating the extent to which people who "work in public education" see all Indians as memorizing, regurgitating robots free of creativity and flexibility. All Indian parents should absorb this - no matter how much you sacrifice and invest in your child's education, there'll be a woman (or a man!) thinking - here comes another Kumar, he sure knows his multiplication tables but he can't innovate worth crap so let's go to the next file.

Well, its not a secret that asians (especially asian boys) have much higher bar to get into good colleges as their enrollment is limited in the name of diversity. This probably true for AAP as well. And I know a lot of whites appeal AAP rejections even with scores below cut-off, but many of the asians I know just accepted the rejection (even with scores above the cut-off) and did not go with appeals as they thought success rate is very low for them considering there may already many asians in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

10:24 here.

You have described me, my family and my friends really well.
As I've gotten older, I've also found that this cultural thing has affected by career negatively in some ways, especially when dealing with entitlement from whites. It really does make an interesting dynamic in the office. Once you are aware, you see it everywhere. I can also now see where blacks and hispanics have some disadvantages that we SE Asians don't have.

I think people really underestimate the extent to which kids from those communities are consistently presumed to be lacking in intelligence from such an early age. People make fun of the term "microaggressions" but it really is a thing - the way so many educators interact with Black and Hispanic kids just sort of assumes that their only way to succeed in life is outside of academics.

And now we know we've been underestimating the extent to which people who "work in public education" see all Indians as memorizing, regurgitating robots free of creativity and flexibility. All Indian parents should absorb this - no matter how much you sacrifice and invest in your child's education, there'll be a woman (or a man!) thinking - here comes another Kumar, he sure knows his multiplication tables but he can't innovate worth crap so let's go to the next file.

Indian dad here - what I read from this is that my time is well-invested in developing in DS (4th grade) the ability to adjust to changing variables and putting him in situations where he is forced to make decisions. It seems like I can get a leg up against these biases - and a changing TJ and college admittance environment - if he's a dynamic thinker instead of a rote memorizer. There seems to be less of a need for the latter than the former anymore. Times are changing from what they were when I was growing up back home - adapt or perish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

10:24 here.

You have described me, my family and my friends really well.
As I've gotten older, I've also found that this cultural thing has affected by career negatively in some ways, especially when dealing with entitlement from whites. It really does make an interesting dynamic in the office. Once you are aware, you see it everywhere. I can also now see where blacks and hispanics have some disadvantages that we SE Asians don't have.

I think people really underestimate the extent to which kids from those communities are consistently presumed to be lacking in intelligence from such an early age. People make fun of the term "microaggressions" but it really is a thing - the way so many educators interact with Black and Hispanic kids just sort of assumes that their only way to succeed in life is outside of academics.

And now we know we've been underestimating the extent to which people who "work in public education" see all Indians as memorizing, regurgitating robots free of creativity and flexibility. All Indian parents should absorb this - no matter how much you sacrifice and invest in your child's education, there'll be a woman (or a man!) thinking - here comes another Kumar, he sure knows his multiplication tables but he can't innovate worth crap so let's go to the next file.

Indian dad here - what I read from this is that my time is well-invested in developing in DS (4th grade) the ability to adjust to changing variables and putting him in situations where he is forced to make decisions. It seems like I can get a leg up against these biases - and a changing TJ and college admittance environment - if he's a dynamic thinker instead of a rote memorizer. There seems to be less of a need for the latter than the former anymore. Times are changing from what they were when I was growing up back home - adapt or perish.

Did you read anything else from this? That some people in positions of power will see your child as a rote-memorizing robot, despite all your efforts. Just like some people in positions of power will see black children as low-performing thugs. Yet we excuse the first stereotype all while wanting to destroy the second.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

10:24 here.

You have described me, my family and my friends really well.
As I've gotten older, I've also found that this cultural thing has affected by career negatively in some ways, especially when dealing with entitlement from whites. It really does make an interesting dynamic in the office. Once you are aware, you see it everywhere. I can also now see where blacks and hispanics have some disadvantages that we SE Asians don't have.

I think people really underestimate the extent to which kids from those communities are consistently presumed to be lacking in intelligence from such an early age. People make fun of the term "microaggressions" but it really is a thing - the way so many educators interact with Black and Hispanic kids just sort of assumes that their only way to succeed in life is outside of academics.

And now we know we've been underestimating the extent to which people who "work in public education" see all Indians as memorizing, regurgitating robots free of creativity and flexibility. All Indian parents should absorb this - no matter how much you sacrifice and invest in your child's education, there'll be a woman (or a man!) thinking - here comes another Kumar, he sure knows his multiplication tables but he can't innovate worth crap so let's go to the next file.

Indian dad here - what I read from this is that my time is well-invested in developing in DS (4th grade) the ability to adjust to changing variables and putting him in situations where he is forced to make decisions. It seems like I can get a leg up against these biases - and a changing TJ and college admittance environment - if he's a dynamic thinker instead of a rote memorizer. There seems to be less of a need for the latter than the former anymore. Times are changing from what they were when I was growing up back home - adapt or perish.

Did you read anything else from this? That some people in positions of power will see your child as a rote-memorizing robot, despite all your efforts. Just like some people in positions of power will see black children as low-performing thugs. Yet we excuse the first stereotype all while wanting to destroy the second.

I have no control over what other people see, especially anonymous people on the internet. What I know is that a lot of what that poster rote rang very true for me from a cultural perspective - like it sounds like it did for other Indians/South Asians here - and that what I can control is how I choose to parent my child to position him best for success down the road. I'm actually really appreciative of the perspective. When you're knee-deep in the culture, sometimes it can be hard to see what it looks like from the outside and the impact that the culture has.

There are a few high-school and college-age kids in my community who defy that stereotype and have been very successful - I think DS will have good role models to look up to. I don't see a whole lot of value in having a grievance over what one anonymous person posted, especially when I find myself in agreement with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the white poster-- you have just displayed what the PP described... Entitlement.

I'd add to that your display of white fragility.

These stereotypes exist for a reason. I think the PP's observations are so spot on, and a lot of other posters, including Indians agree.

I'm SE Asian and I would agree that in my culture, self-advocacy is a definite weakness.

I don't know if I would call it a weakness.... it's just sort of a cultural thing that gets in the way of rising up in America. SE Asians, in my experience, have an incredible amount of pride in just putting their heads down and getting the job done without trying to stand out and without seeking a ton of validation or help. It's something I admire.

10:24 here.

You have described me, my family and my friends really well.
As I've gotten older, I've also found that this cultural thing has affected by career negatively in some ways, especially when dealing with entitlement from whites. It really does make an interesting dynamic in the office. Once you are aware, you see it everywhere. I can also now see where blacks and hispanics have some disadvantages that we SE Asians don't have.

I think people really underestimate the extent to which kids from those communities are consistently presumed to be lacking in intelligence from such an early age. People make fun of the term "microaggressions" but it really is a thing - the way so many educators interact with Black and Hispanic kids just sort of assumes that their only way to succeed in life is outside of academics.

And now we know we've been underestimating the extent to which people who "work in public education" see all Indians as memorizing, regurgitating robots free of creativity and flexibility. All Indian parents should absorb this - no matter how much you sacrifice and invest in your child's education, there'll be a woman (or a man!) thinking - here comes another Kumar, he sure knows his multiplication tables but he can't innovate worth crap so let's go to the next file.

Indian dad here - what I read from this is that my time is well-invested in developing in DS (4th grade) the ability to adjust to changing variables and putting him in situations where he is forced to make decisions. It seems like I can get a leg up against these biases - and a changing TJ and college admittance environment - if he's a dynamic thinker instead of a rote memorizer. There seems to be less of a need for the latter than the former anymore. Times are changing from what they were when I was growing up back home - adapt or perish.

Did you read anything else from this? That some people in positions of power will see your child as a rote-memorizing robot, despite all your efforts. Just like some people in positions of power will see black children as low-performing thugs. Yet we excuse the first stereotype all while wanting to destroy the second.

Why would Indians choose to play the victim here?