Trapped/Re-aging Families, How are you having the conversation?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If my August 2012 8th grader doesn’t play ‘up’ with her current team next year, she’s switching to volleyball and crew. It’s her call. If she played ‘down’ next year she’d miss a lot of practices because she’d also be playing on her high school team.

I’ve been honest with her since the podcast last year. I have no preference, just want her to be happy.

Back to update that our club is going by grade for the August kids. So my August 8th grader is happy but the 2 August 7th graders on her team are not. The club reviewed all ages and essentially all teams will remain at the same level of competitiveness (ECNL and ECRL) after the shifts except one of our 2010 teams, which will have a pretty significant talent hole they will need to fill.

And it begins....

This is exactly what I said would occur. Clubs will make young Aug/Sept players play on an A or B team thats their grade in school.

Looks like SY+30 guy was right all along.

That's fine, he's wrong about the rule part, tho!

What part is he wrong? If clubs make young Aug players play on a team thats their grade in school its the same thing as SY+30 with a 9/1 cutoff. Actually its better because all Aug and younger players (Sept, Oct, Nov. etc) have to play with their grade.

Just read the Arlington FAQ. Some clubs will just do it. Others won't. It's not a league rule. Flexibility is given. That's what he/you are wrong about.

Ahhh.... So the hill you've chosen to die on is that its not a written rule. But, you dont know this because the 2026/27 season rulebook hasn't been released yet.

Nevermind that clubs are grouping young Aug/Sept birthdays by grade.

But you were the one going on and on and on and on about how it was going to be and had to be a rule.

There might be a rule we dont know yet. But either way it doesn't matter. Clubs will group young Aug/Sept players by grade.

This is your main problem. You take 1 anonymous post and assume that's how it'll be everywhere whereas we have a major club saying it'll be case-by-case and you don't believe it. Confirmation bias at it's finest. That said, I'm willing to admit some or many clubs might generally force players up more as a wink and a nod. You seem not be able to handle such nuance just because you want to argue. That's why so many people find these back-and-forths not helpful.

Im not trying to argue Im explaining what WILL happen at the most competitive clubs. You might see smaller less competitive clubs try to cut corners by playing players down a grade for wins but everyone knows eventually those players will need to play with their grade if they want to get recruited to play in college. Top clubs will want to invest in players that will stay with the club and their team. Also they dont want to deal with the drama that comes with grade older players playing down. Its just more trouble than its worth. If you have 5-10 potential players for each position theres no need to allow playing down a grade. Once a couple of top clubs ban playing down. Other clubs will adopt the same policies.

It's also drama forcing players to play up an age group. Neither situation is ideal. It's lesser known reason why people didn't like SY in the first place and welcomed BY (beyond the whole it's for the national team thing). You chide people for not looking at what happened before but you also have rose-colored glasses.

This is what B teams are for. Eventually if they're good enough they'll find their way to an A team.

With this line of thinking, you might as well have the kid just repeat a grade in school (which they shouldn't have to do).

Many will choose to do this even if they're a starter on a grade up team. Unfortunately SY allows this one edge case

Like others have relevantly asked: Will those Aug-Dec starters still be starters if they stay as the Aug-Dec olders join? Parents shouldn't be so entitled.

Do players start now in BY based on their birth month or based on their performance and the coach's needs?

Birth month from the teams I have seen. Q4 mostly on bench now should switch to Q2 on bench under SY.

Causation vs Correlation

No coach looks at their roster and select players by birth month
They select by performance

If the best 9 or 11 are born in Q1 because of the team make-up selection process, then that's the illusion

They select on size, aka birth month, not performance.

This really depends on the team/coach. A team with younger players in the age group who start on average right now (there are exceptions of course) are more apt to try to play possession and defense to compete. The question remains, when the age group shifts, does it make more sense for those kids to move to the younger age group OR stay on their current team and likely be at a greater disadvantage from teams who load up on the bigger, older more athletic types.

You can't just choose a younger age group now. So how can you just choose a younger age group with SY?

If you're October 2013 and a U14 next year, how can you just choose to play U13 when you're a U14?

If you are Aug-Dec, you can. That's the shift about to happen. Many players will be joining teams with players currently younger than them -- although likely the same grade.

Not true. Have to pay on age, can't play down.

I think they meant BY trapped players who are the youngest on their team (playing a grade up) will switch to being the oldest on their team in SY (playing with their grade in school team).

Correct, this will happen to a fair number if kids on our team. Several are Q4 on first team for a large, competitive club. Anticipate most will move to play with same/ younger grade vs playing with old team, which mostly has kids a grade higher. Biggest question is what happens to those Q4 kids who are not starters, a grade higher but technically eligible for younger age group. Sounds like this becomes the clubs discretion, but in certain leagues like ECNL, I think there is a lot of influence that the kid plays with grade unless truly an exception.

You're calling out what people have been arguing about for over a year.

Yes, clubs will 99% of the time group players by grade even if they're young and could technically play on a grade down team. This means they'll get put on their grade B team before the lower grade A team. This is just easier because all you have to do is ask players what grade they are in school and that becomes their pool. But also if players want to get recruited to play in college they need to be playing on a team thats their grade in school or recruiters will ignore them.

This makes sense to me. Asking players their grade in school then creating player pools by grade would make things so much easier. The only thing clubs would need to watch for is the regrades.

States have differing grade cutoffs so for a national rule where clubs play across statelines and for consistency and fairness, one 12 month window exists where grades are not part of the rules. It worked before, it will work again.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Either way the oldest a player can be is an 8/1 birthday.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If my August 2012 8th grader doesn’t play ‘up’ with her current team next year, she’s switching to volleyball and crew. It’s her call. If she played ‘down’ next year she’d miss a lot of practices because she’d also be playing on her high school team.

I’ve been honest with her since the podcast last year. I have no preference, just want her to be happy.

Back to update that our club is going by grade for the August kids. So my August 8th grader is happy but the 2 August 7th graders on her team are not. The club reviewed all ages and essentially all teams will remain at the same level of competitiveness (ECNL and ECRL) after the shifts except one of our 2010 teams, which will have a pretty significant talent hole they will need to fill.

And it begins....

This is exactly what I said would occur. Clubs will make young Aug/Sept players play on an A or B team thats their grade in school.

Looks like SY+30 guy was right all along.

That's fine, he's wrong about the rule part, tho!

What part is he wrong? If clubs make young Aug players play on a team thats their grade in school its the same thing as SY+30 with a 9/1 cutoff. Actually its better because all Aug and younger players (Sept, Oct, Nov. etc) have to play with their grade.

Just read the Arlington FAQ. Some clubs will just do it. Others won't. It's not a league rule. Flexibility is given. That's what he/you are wrong about.

Ahhh.... So the hill you've chosen to die on is that its not a written rule. But, you dont know this because the 2026/27 season rulebook hasn't been released yet.

Nevermind that clubs are grouping young Aug/Sept birthdays by grade.

But you were the one going on and on and on and on about how it was going to be and had to be a rule.

There might be a rule we dont know yet. But either way it doesn't matter. Clubs will group young Aug/Sept players by grade.

This is your main problem. You take 1 anonymous post and assume that's how it'll be everywhere whereas we have a major club saying it'll be case-by-case and you don't believe it. Confirmation bias at it's finest. That said, I'm willing to admit some or many clubs might generally force players up more as a wink and a nod. You seem not be able to handle such nuance just because you want to argue. That's why so many people find these back-and-forths not helpful.

Im not trying to argue Im explaining what WILL happen at the most competitive clubs. You might see smaller less competitive clubs try to cut corners by playing players down a grade for wins but everyone knows eventually those players will need to play with their grade if they want to get recruited to play in college. Top clubs will want to invest in players that will stay with the club and their team. Also they dont want to deal with the drama that comes with grade older players playing down. Its just more trouble than its worth. If you have 5-10 potential players for each position theres no need to allow playing down a grade. Once a couple of top clubs ban playing down. Other clubs will adopt the same policies.

It's also drama forcing players to play up an age group. Neither situation is ideal. It's lesser known reason why people didn't like SY in the first place and welcomed BY (beyond the whole it's for the national team thing). You chide people for not looking at what happened before but you also have rose-colored glasses.

This is what B teams are for. Eventually if they're good enough they'll find their way to an A team.

With this line of thinking, you might as well have the kid just repeat a grade in school (which they shouldn't have to do).

Many will choose to do this even if they're a starter on a grade up team. Unfortunately SY allows this one edge case

Like others have relevantly asked: Will those Aug-Dec starters still be starters if they stay as the Aug-Dec olders join? Parents shouldn't be so entitled.

Do players start now in BY based on their birth month or based on their performance and the coach's needs?

Birth month from the teams I have seen. Q4 mostly on bench now should switch to Q2 on bench under SY.

Causation vs Correlation

No coach looks at their roster and select players by birth month
They select by performance

If the best 9 or 11 are born in Q1 because of the team make-up selection process, then that's the illusion

They select on size, aka birth month, not performance.

This really depends on the team/coach. A team with younger players in the age group who start on average right now (there are exceptions of course) are more apt to try to play possession and defense to compete. The question remains, when the age group shifts, does it make more sense for those kids to move to the younger age group OR stay on their current team and likely be at a greater disadvantage from teams who load up on the bigger, older more athletic types.

You can't just choose a younger age group now. So how can you just choose a younger age group with SY?

If you're October 2013 and a U14 next year, how can you just choose to play U13 when you're a U14?

If you are Aug-Dec, you can. That's the shift about to happen. Many players will be joining teams with players currently younger than them -- although likely the same grade.

Not true. Have to pay on age, can't play down.

I think they meant BY trapped players who are the youngest on their team (playing a grade up) will switch to being the oldest on their team in SY (playing with their grade in school team).

My kid is November and he's playing as one of the youngest on his team.
Not playing "a grade up"

Don't know what this grade up nonsense is all about

It is one crazy guy who is now talking to himself. For some reason he is obsessed with the fact that a handful of August birthdays will potentially be playing with players a grade lower than them in the new Seasonal system. It is crazy, there are way way more players playing with kids a grade lower than them NOW and nobody cares. But somehow, and for some reason, these August kids have broken this poor man.

Good grief. I really wish they had stuck with the original 9/1 cutoff date just so we would never have to deal with this dude.

I honestly did not know my Q4 2014 was behind all of his teammates until this year as they are in middle school now and he is 5th grade. It really did not matter at all to our experience at club. I am not sure why it will matter once all of the dust settles either in club. It is a 1-year window whether it is 1/1, 2/1, 3/1...8/1, etc. Some will be at the top and some will be at the bottom of the age bracket. Big whoop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my August 2012 8th grader doesn’t play ‘up’ with her current team next year, she’s switching to volleyball and crew. It’s her call. If she played ‘down’ next year she’d miss a lot of practices because she’d also be playing on her high school team.

I’ve been honest with her since the podcast last year. I have no preference, just want her to be happy.

Back to update that our club is going by grade for the August kids. So my August 8th grader is happy but the 2 August 7th graders on her team are not. The club reviewed all ages and essentially all teams will remain at the same level of competitiveness (ECNL and ECRL) after the shifts except one of our 2010 teams, which will have a pretty significant talent hole they will need to fill.

And it begins....

This is exactly what I said would occur. Clubs will make young Aug/Sept players play on an A or B team thats their grade in school.

Looks like SY+30 guy was right all along.

That's fine, he's wrong about the rule part, tho!

What part is he wrong? If clubs make young Aug players play on a team thats their grade in school its the same thing as SY+30 with a 9/1 cutoff. Actually its better because all Aug and younger players (Sept, Oct, Nov. etc) have to play with their grade.

Just read the Arlington FAQ. Some clubs will just do it. Others won't. It's not a league rule. Flexibility is given. That's what he/you are wrong about.

Ahhh.... So the hill you've chosen to die on is that its not a written rule. But, you dont know this because the 2026/27 season rulebook hasn't been released yet.

Nevermind that clubs are grouping young Aug/Sept birthdays by grade.

But you were the one going on and on and on and on about how it was going to be and had to be a rule.

There might be a rule we dont know yet. But either way it doesn't matter. Clubs will group young Aug/Sept players by grade.

This is your main problem. You take 1 anonymous post and assume that's how it'll be everywhere whereas we have a major club saying it'll be case-by-case and you don't believe it. Confirmation bias at it's finest. That said, I'm willing to admit some or many clubs might generally force players up more as a wink and a nod. You seem not be able to handle such nuance just because you want to argue. That's why so many people find these back-and-forths not helpful.

Im not trying to argue Im explaining what WILL happen at the most competitive clubs. You might see smaller less competitive clubs try to cut corners by playing players down a grade for wins but everyone knows eventually those players will need to play with their grade if they want to get recruited to play in college. Top clubs will want to invest in players that will stay with the club and their team. Also they dont want to deal with the drama that comes with grade older players playing down. Its just more trouble than its worth. If you have 5-10 potential players for each position theres no need to allow playing down a grade. Once a couple of top clubs ban playing down. Other clubs will adopt the same policies.

It's also drama forcing players to play up an age group. Neither situation is ideal. It's lesser known reason why people didn't like SY in the first place and welcomed BY (beyond the whole it's for the national team thing). You chide people for not looking at what happened before but you also have rose-colored glasses.

This is what B teams are for. Eventually if they're good enough they'll find their way to an A team.

With this line of thinking, you might as well have the kid just repeat a grade in school (which they shouldn't have to do).

Many will choose to do this even if they're a starter on a grade up team. Unfortunately SY allows this one edge case

Like others have relevantly asked: Will those Aug-Dec starters still be starters if they stay as the Aug-Dec olders join? Parents shouldn't be so entitled.

Do players start now in BY based on their birth month or based on their performance and the coach's needs?

Birth month from the teams I have seen. Q4 mostly on bench now should switch to Q2 on bench under SY.

Causation vs Correlation

No coach looks at their roster and select players by birth month
They select by performance

If the best 9 or 11 are born in Q1 because of the team make-up selection process, then that's the illusion

They select on size, aka birth month, not performance.

This really depends on the team/coach. A team with younger players in the age group who start on average right now (there are exceptions of course) are more apt to try to play possession and defense to compete. The question remains, when the age group shifts, does it make more sense for those kids to move to the younger age group OR stay on their current team and likely be at a greater disadvantage from teams who load up on the bigger, older more athletic types.

You can't just choose a younger age group now. So how can you just choose a younger age group with SY?

If you're October 2013 and a U14 next year, how can you just choose to play U13 when you're a U14?

If you are Aug-Dec, you can. That's the shift about to happen. Many players will be joining teams with players currently younger than them -- although likely the same grade.

Not true. Have to pay on age, can't play down.

I think they meant BY trapped players who are the youngest on their team (playing a grade up) will switch to being the oldest on their team in SY (playing with their grade in school team).

Correct, this will happen to a fair number if kids on our team. Several are Q4 on first team for a large, competitive club. Anticipate most will move to play with same/ younger grade vs playing with old team, which mostly has kids a grade higher. Biggest question is what happens to those Q4 kids who are not starters, a grade higher but technically eligible for younger age group. Sounds like this becomes the clubs discretion, but in certain leagues like ECNL, I think there is a lot of influence that the kid plays with grade unless truly an exception.

You're calling out what people have been arguing about for over a year.

Yes, clubs will 99% of the time group players by grade even if they're young and could technically play on a grade down team. This means they'll get put on their grade B team before the lower grade A team. This is just easier because all you have to do is ask players what grade they are in school and that becomes their pool. But also if players want to get recruited to play in college they need to be playing on a team thats their grade in school or recruiters will ignore them.

This makes sense to me. Asking players their grade in school then creating player pools by grade would make things so much easier. The only thing clubs would need to watch for is the regrades.

States have differing grade cutoffs so for a national rule where clubs play across statelines and for consistency and fairness, one 12 month window exists where grades are not part of the rules. It worked before, it will work again.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Either way the oldest a player can be is an 8/1 birthday.

Was explaining why national soccer rules uses a 12 month ago window and not grades, as the PP suggested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Forcing grades will advantage certain states and disadvantage a lot of players just because they went to school "on-time". Dumb. It's why they go with age first, then flexibility. If a kid is good enough and if you're right when they are a sophomore they need to be playing on grade, they'd be savvy to switch then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Not true, nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Forcing grades will advantage certain states and disadvantage a lot of players just because they went to school "on-time". Dumb. It's why they go with age first, then flexibility. If a kid is good enough and if you're right when they are a sophomore they need to be playing on grade, they'd be savvy to switch then.

That might be true at lower level clubs but at higher levels, the vast majority of players are not good enough to take a roster spot from a player on the top team a year up. So the idea that players are just going willy-nilly choose to play up a year is silly unless you are talking about lower level clubs. And if that is the case, who cares as they are not getting recruited from events anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Not true, nice try.

Very true. Go ahead try and find a RAE paper or website that considers B teams as an alternate for youger players that aren't big/good enough for the A team. It doesn't exist because if you bring B teams into the discussion RAE doesnt work.

If players are young and not good enough for the A team playing on the B team will let them get more touches and develop more as a player. When they get older being younger evens out but the B team player has had the opportunity to be the top player on the team for multiple seasons. Once they jump up to the A team they'll be primed to work for a top position on the A team becasue thats what theyre used to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Forcing grades will advantage certain states and disadvantage a lot of players just because they went to school "on-time". Dumb. It's why they go with age first, then flexibility. If a kid is good enough and if you're right when they are a sophomore they need to be playing on grade, they'd be savvy to switch then.

That might be true at lower level clubs but at higher levels, the vast majority of players are not good enough to take a roster spot from a player on the top team a year up. So the idea that players are just going willy-nilly choose to play up a year is silly unless you are talking about lower level clubs. And if that is the case, who cares as they are not getting recruited from events anyway.

Depends on the club and team. A team in a top league that struggles offers a lot of opportunity. OR, they just do some showcases at grade when they have coach/school to impress.

[Anonymous]

Loudoun Soccers FAQ just came out and said this - As of publication, MLS NEXT intends to remain with the current Jan-Dec age group chart; all other Loudoun Soccer leagues will transition to the new age group system.

The wording makes it sound like a decision has been made. Did I miss something, or was the answer poorly phrased?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Forcing grades will advantage certain states and disadvantage a lot of players just because they went to school "on-time". Dumb. It's why they go with age first, then flexibility. If a kid is good enough and if you're right when they are a sophomore they need to be playing on grade, they'd be savvy to switch then.

That might be true at lower level clubs but at higher levels, the vast majority of players are not good enough to take a roster spot from a player on the top team a year up. So the idea that players are just going willy-nilly choose to play up a year is silly unless you are talking about lower level clubs. And if that is the case, who cares as they are not getting recruited from events anyway.

Depends on the club and team. A team in a top league that struggles offers a lot of opportunity. OR, they just do some showcases at grade when they have coach/school to impress.

Clubs, coaches, players and parents wont want oddball players from other teams guesting with their team. This wont work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Forcing grades will advantage certain states and disadvantage a lot of players just because they went to school "on-time". Dumb. It's why they go with age first, then flexibility. If a kid is good enough and if you're right when they are a sophomore they need to be playing on grade, they'd be savvy to switch then.

That might be true at lower level clubs but at higher levels, the vast majority of players are not good enough to take a roster spot from a player on the top team a year up. So the idea that players are just going willy-nilly choose to play up a year is silly unless you are talking about lower level clubs. And if that is the case, who cares as they are not getting recruited from events anyway.

Depends on the club and team. A team in a top league that struggles offers a lot of opportunity. OR, they just do some showcases at grade when they have coach/school to impress.

Clubs, coaches, players and parents wont want oddball players from other teams guesting with their team. This wont work.

Guesting happens all the time in soccer, especially if there are injuries. Adding a college prospect for a showcase maybe even makes sense to help a team win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Forcing grades will advantage certain states and disadvantage a lot of players just because they went to school "on-time". Dumb. It's why they go with age first, then flexibility. If a kid is good enough and if you're right when they are a sophomore they need to be playing on grade, they'd be savvy to switch then.

That might be true at lower level clubs but at higher levels, the vast majority of players are not good enough to take a roster spot from a player on the top team a year up. So the idea that players are just going willy-nilly choose to play up a year is silly unless you are talking about lower level clubs. And if that is the case, who cares as they are not getting recruited from events anyway.

Depends on the club and team. A team in a top league that struggles offers a lot of opportunity. OR, they just do some showcases at grade when they have coach/school to impress.

Clubs, coaches, players and parents wont want oddball players from other teams guesting with their team. This wont work.

Guesting happens all the time in soccer, especially if there are injuries. Adding a college prospect for a showcase maybe even makes sense to help a team win.

Wins dont matter at showcases all that matters is the score was close and nobody wants guest players at showcase games.

The reason it doesn't make sense is the guest player would need to be communicating with college coaches 6-12 months in advance that they'll be guesting with XYZ team. Which they wouldn't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

Wasn't true for my kids teams. All age based in SY.

Were your clubs top teams DA at the time?

Can you point to a doc or website where DA played on grade instead of age?

People weren't interested in playing down back then. It just wasnt something you ran into very often. If anything you'd hear about players playing up a grade and graduating HS early to play at some super college.

If this was true, it was a flaw in the system, because it put some kids at a disadvantage, making them the youngest on the team, younger than other states. A very few may have battled through and became tremendous players as a result (known as the underdog effect), but it was at the cost of others who may have been decent prospects but cycled out of the sport as a result. Leaving it up to the clubs and families makes a lot of sense.

If all players played on the same team this would be true. But because there's B team it doesn't make sense. You need to look more closely at all the RAE "proof" you cant live without. Almost all of it is geared to National Team selection only. Which means it doesn't consider B teams.

Forcing grades will advantage certain states and disadvantage a lot of players just because they went to school "on-time". Dumb. It's why they go with age first, then flexibility. If a kid is good enough and if you're right when they are a sophomore they need to be playing on grade, they'd be savvy to switch then.

That might be true at lower level clubs but at higher levels, the vast majority of players are not good enough to take a roster spot from a player on the top team a year up. So the idea that players are just going willy-nilly choose to play up a year is silly unless you are talking about lower level clubs. And if that is the case, who cares as they are not getting recruited from events anyway.

Depends on the club and team. A team in a top league that struggles offers a lot of opportunity. OR, they just do some showcases at grade when they have coach/school to impress.

Clubs, coaches, players and parents wont want oddball players from other teams guesting with their team. This wont work.

Guesting happens all the time in soccer, especially if there are injuries. Adding a college prospect for a showcase maybe even makes sense to help a team win.

Stop trying to apply littles logic to something you dont understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Loudoun Soccers FAQ just came out and said this - As of publication, MLS NEXT intends to remain with the current Jan-Dec age group chart; all other Loudoun Soccer leagues will transition to the new age group system.

The wording makes it sound like a decision has been made. Did I miss something, or was the answer poorly phrased?

MLS NEXT probably hadn’t indicated otherwise yet. The wording leaves the door open for an announcement later should that change. Last posted on here they were expecting a decision by January.