+100 This is beautiful, thank you. Something that really bothers me sometimes is the way some high SES women just have disdain for the hard labor of childcare or taking care of a house or family. Like it is beneath them specifically because it was traditionally the work reserved for women. I know women for whom it's a source of pride that they outsource all of that to someone else (almost always a woman, very frequently an immigrant, often older, usually a woman of color). To them, that is a sign of their feminism, that they outsource this work to another woman so that they can have a career. I don't personally care whether a woman works or stays home (I stayed home for a couple years and now work from home about 3/4 time, it works for us). But the idea that outsourcing the domestic duties to another woman, but especially one from a historically oppressed community, is "feminist" is insane to me. Even if you pay her well for that work, you'll never pay her as much as you get paid, unless your DH is a massive earner, and then she'll still only make a fraction of what he makes. I'm not knocking this as a lifestyle solution -- I get it. But it's not "feminist". Which is why it's gross to me when people crap all over SAHMs as though they have betrayed some feminist ideal. First off, true feminism should not have "an ideal" that women have to live up to. That's counter to the whole idea of feminism. Second, we all live in a misogynist system that sets us up for failure, and we all have our workarounds. Mine involves not working full time. Yours might involve hiring a nanny and a house cleaner. And another woman's might involve staying home. None of these are good or bad. They are all stopgap measures against the actual problem, which is that women almost always get stuck with the work of taking care of kids and the home. Men might "help" but they don't take on the lions share most of the time. I personally think all families should get a stipend for "unpaid labor". It should be paid for by a tax on capital investments, or what I like to think of as "paid unlabor". We should formally recognize that whether they work or not, someone in a family is doing a bunch of important work that isn't being compensated in a normal way, and that work has real societal value and should be acknowledged. |
I’m going to vote that it’s because school hours don’t support working parents. A lot of parents aren’t making much after paying for before and after school care for 2-3 kids. |
Why are you so defensive? |
Sums it up. |
People complain all the time about things they could change. My neighbors always lament how busy they are and how over scheduled their kids are, but they continue to sign them up for tons of activities (presumably because they get more enjoyment from the activities than they are bothered by the schedule). I will complain to DH all day tomorrow about how I am so tired, and yet, here I am screwing around on the internet. Friends complain about their husbands but don’t want to get divorced. So I wouldn’t read too much into people’s complaints. If someone chooses to SAH, they obviously would rather have more time/flexibility than income.
It’s weird to me that you think a persons’s laziness is determined by their spouse’s income. My DH makes enough for us to afford all of our expenses while I stay home. We have an older house and nothing fancy. I don’t complain about not being able to afford basic necessities but I definitely vented to a friend today about how much braces cost! That doesn’t mean I am lazy for not going back to work. I can complain about the price but still place a higher value the flexibility to take kids to (SO MANY) orthodontist/doctor/dentist etc appointments. |
It's the Lean In version of feminism. It was very attractive when I was a young ambitious woman. I wonder if even Sheryl Sandberg would stand by her own book these days. For our family, the ideal would be both parents having low key flexible jobs, and maybe one only 50 - 75% time. During COVID, we've both had to reduce hours since our daycare has reduced hours, and it is just nice. Our jobs aren't super high paid by DCUM standards, but they are both pretty high paid, in particular for the work life balance. My job is WAY easier than full time parenting of young kids and it pays well over daycare costs, so working is a no brainer. This is obviously not true for many/most. I think the new child tax credit (for 2021 only?) is a fantastic acknowledgment of unpaid labor (although we don't qualify for it). The expansion of the child care / dependent care FSA tax benefits are also great. I also wish the jobs of childcare workers could be elevated and paid more. Its a really important career. |
But you do. This is why SAHMs get social security despite not participating in the paid labor market and therefore not paying social security taxes. |
I'm fine with whatever you choose, but frankly, I don't want to hear you complain about it nonstop when we hang out. That's why over the years my friend group has kind of split off to be made up of mostly other working moms. I do still have some SAHM friends, but not nearly as many as when my kids were younger.
Yes, we all get together and gripe every so often, but with my SAHM friends it was always the same: complain about kids, complain about money, complain about their husbands not helping out, complain about how stressed they were because they signed up to do/organize/co-chair 10 different things, and say "oh, I wish we could afford that!" whenever anyone mentioned any vacation that wasn't within 2 hours of DC. |
I'm not trying to rain on your parade but this isn't how it works. We've all had good returns during the time you have indicated. Working doesn't allow the time to figure out which index funds to choose - no! It only takes one decision, like dollar-cost average monthly from your paycheck into VTI and you're done. In fact, for most people, the best method is to "set-it and forget it". I guess I don't undertand your 'advantage' here. Nevertheless, I hope your investment journey continues to be profitable, just remember 'closely tracking' is more likely to hinder rather than help you (as an index investor which you said you are). |
I acknowledged that last year and even this year have had better than usual market gains. My point was I didn't/couldn't find the time to start putting $ into index funds while I was working. But I found/made that time as a SAHP. If I cashed in all of my index funds today I'd have more $ than if I'd kept working and paying all of the costs associated with that. TBH I find it kind of nuts that this is the way it is, and I realize not everyone can do this. But there it is. Obviously I could loose my investments tomorrow if there is a big stock market correction. |
Yes. And I think other people often overestimate costs spent on working and how much a SAHP saves. I think that is more common. But really, whatever works for a family. |
I had a nervous breakdown my 2L year of law schools. Instead of doing Barbri I got to go to inpatient therapy. I did eventually go back and finish but I never took the bar or did the internships and such. I was too busy trying to not cut myself or pull out my hair.
I’m better now thank God but it really ended my career. I do a great job taking care of my kids and house and I do a ton of volunteer work for my community. I have held some contract and part time work but for some reason whenever I try to go back to working full time it all falls apart. I just can’t handle it. My husband had a frank conversation with me a long time ago that he didn’t mind making sacrifices so he could have a healthy wife and functional family. We live frugally and we aren’t rich but it is what it is. We’re all doing the best we can. People can’t tell any of this by looking at me or our family so there probably are a ton of people who think I’m lazy and living it up while my husband works his tail off. Oh well. |
I think the PP’s point was more like most working people do find/make the time to figure out how to invest. And they generally have a lot more cash flow to invest. It is not that hard. It is not that time consuming if you are an index investor. But to your point, yes, I also find it very very strange that once you have some money you can basically make more money with almost no effort by investing. That has (almost) nothing to do with working or SAHP. |
It’s hard to find a job after being a SAHM, and you lose your skills. That’s been my personal experience. |
Define high earner. I'd have to start from scratch and wouldn't make much money if I went back. We have more than enough to live on and we actively save. Why do you care if I work or not? |