Schools in Europe closing again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe can afford to go back to virtual because so many of their kids have been in-person. That means there is less urgency to get back because the mental health and learning loss are much lower than here. We should have been back from the start so we could build in breaks during surges.

I'm pushing back on claims of learning loss.

What data do you have to show that virtual schooling results in learning loss? Has it ever been tried before in the US to this extent?

The school dropout rate of online schools is very high. Much higher than in person whether public or private.

Where are the data showing that students who have been participating in full day distance learning since September have learning loss compared with children who have been attending in person instruction since September?

If students withdraw from school, that is a separate issue.

Our local public schools have been 100% virtual and are showing learning loss for the students who attend regularly.

Younger students are forgetting how to read and how to write. I guess they'll just make it up next year. Hopefully.

Data? I’m asking for data.

Not anecdotes.

It's been published here and there. You have been ignoring it.

Yeah, no. This is not how it works. Those who make the claim provide the valid data to support it. Otherwise they're full of crap.

We'll wait.

Okay. I'm not going to look up all the reports the have been coming out for months now. Locally, nationally, and from other countries.

You prefer your narrative. Ignorance is bliss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crisis school what a horrible term. But yes that is what happened in April.

It was, there is no doubt about it. I'm a teacher. We learned on Thursday that Friday was our last day of school, and we didn't know how long it would be. We thought it'd be maybe 2 weeks?

We sent the kids home. They didn't have devices. We had no plan.

Whatever we managed to put together last spring was our best effort at the time but... it was NOT distance learning. I agree that kids didn't learn very much those months. We tried. But we weren't even teaching all day. Kids didn't have devices. They were watching lessons on TV.

Since September though, we have been teaching all day every day and following up with students who are absent. Every child has a school device. They have internet access. I don't like distance teaching, but I don't think there are any studies out there that accurately measure the learning students have been accomplishing the past five months. There can't be because we have never done this, before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Okay. I'm not going to look up all the reports the have been coming out for months now. Locally, nationally, and from other countries.

You prefer your narrative. Ignorance is bliss.

LOL. So.. no data. Thanks, that is what thought.

You are right. I prefer my -- not narrative , but assertion -- that you have no data. I knew you didn't and I was right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Okay. I'm not going to look up all the reports the have been coming out for months now. Locally, nationally, and from other countries.

You prefer your narrative. Ignorance is bliss.

LOL. So.. no data. Thanks, that is what thought.

You are right. I prefer my -- not narrative , but assertion -- that you have no data. I knew you didn't and I was right.

At least I keep up with current events. I keep my eyes open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

At least I keep up with current events. I keep my eyes open.

That, and some data, would provide me with the data I requested.

[Anonymous]

So back to European schools....

many countries have closed schools this time around. A notable holdout has been France. They have been determined to keep schools open. When many other schools closed over Christmas break, France did not.

However, they are currently discussing whether they should extend the February holidays. Schools in France often get a February break.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210128/france-considers-extending-school-holidays-to-counter-covid-spread

French President Emmanuel Macron and his government are considering extending the upcoming school holidays in an effort to slow down the spiralling spread of Covid-19, the government spokesperson said on Thursday.

Schools in France go on holidays at different times in February depending on where in the country they are located. Zone A schools break up on February 6th, zone B on February 20th and zone C on February 13th (see the official calendar HERE).

One of the options to halt the spread of the virus mentioned by Attal would be to move February school holidays "one way or the other" in order to keep everyone at home together at the same time.

I believe they will make this move very soon, and start everyone's holidays on Feb 6th. Give everyone three weeks vacation instead of one. It is a face saving measure, to say they aren't closing schools, they are just extending vacation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At least I keep up with current events. I keep my eyes open.

That, and some data, would provide me with the data I requested.

Hi, education researcher here. There are not many final published reports out because it takes time to get the data and to get through the publication process. We are still in the middle of the pandemic and haven't completed a full year of DL. What we DO know about learning loss is mostly information from Hurricane Katrina. I encourage you to look through Google Scholar at data related to interrupted education resulting from Hurricane Katrina.

However, there are three specifically regarding COVID from non-profits that are respectable, and that we have been citing. They include:

Brookings: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2020/05/27/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-student-achievement-and-what-it-may-mean-for-educators/
NWEA: https://www.nwea.org/research/publication/the-covid-19-slide-what-summer-learning-loss-can-tell-us-about-the-potential-impact-of-school-closures-on-student-academic-achievement/
McKinsey (normally we would not use McKinsey, but this is good basic research): https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/covid-19-and-learning-loss-disparities-grow-and-students-need-help#:~:text=Students%20on%20average%20could%20lose,white%20students%20(Exhibit%206).

Learning loss is very real and well-documented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At least I keep up with current events. I keep my eyes open.

That, and some data, would provide me with the data I requested.

Hi, education researcher here. There are not many final published reports out because it takes time to get the data and to get through the publication process. We are still in the middle of the pandemic and haven't completed a full year of DL. What we DO know about learning loss is mostly information from Hurricane Katrina. I encourage you to look through Google Scholar at data related to interrupted education resulting from Hurricane Katrina.

However, there are three specifically regarding COVID from non-profits that are respectable, and that we have been citing. They include:

Brookings: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2020/05/27/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-student-achievement-and-what-it-may-mean-for-educators/
NWEA: https://www.nwea.org/research/publication/the-covid-19-slide-what-summer-learning-loss-can-tell-us-about-the-potential-impact-of-school-closures-on-student-academic-achievement/
McKinsey (normally we would not use McKinsey, but this is good basic research): https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/covid-19-and-learning-loss-disparities-grow-and-students-need-help#:~:text=Students%20on%20average%20could%20lose,white%20students%20(Exhibit%206).

Learning loss is very real and well-documented.

A) it’s a pandemic. Chill.
B) learning loss much more preferred over lives lost
C) last scenario of this kind was 100 years ago. Again, chill. Your Larla will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At least I keep up with current events. I keep my eyes open.

That, and some data, would provide me with the data I requested.

Hi, education researcher here. There are not many final published reports out because it takes time to get the data and to get through the publication process. We are still in the middle of the pandemic and haven't completed a full year of DL. What we DO know about learning loss is mostly information from Hurricane Katrina. I encourage you to look through Google Scholar at data related to interrupted education resulting from Hurricane Katrina.

However, there are three specifically regarding COVID from non-profits that are respectable, and that we have been citing. They include:

Brookings: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2020/05/27/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-student-achievement-and-what-it-may-mean-for-educators/
NWEA: https://www.nwea.org/research/publication/the-covid-19-slide-what-summer-learning-loss-can-tell-us-about-the-potential-impact-of-school-closures-on-student-academic-achievement/
McKinsey (normally we would not use McKinsey, but this is good basic research): https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/covid-19-and-learning-loss-disparities-grow-and-students-need-help#:~:text=Students%20on%20average%20could%20lose,white%20students%20(Exhibit%206).

Learning loss is very real and well-documented.

A) it’s a pandemic. Chill.
B) learning loss much more preferred over lives lost
C) last scenario of this kind was 100 years ago. Again, chill. Your Larla will be fine.

+1

[Anonymous]

BTW all these learning loss stories and "what about the children" are written to guilt women and I'm not having it.

You see this all the f'in time. Articles like "You must have a baby by 33 or your kid will have horns" "if you don't breast feed and work on your phone at the same time you won't be happy at 64". Yes absurd but so are these clickbait articles.

The articles posted are written by a public equity expert and a lawyer. The public equity expert is a guy who makes money setting up charters.

I'm not saying kids aren't losing out academically right now. I'm saying be wary of anything that trying to create a guilt, panic reaction in you.

Look at your kid. What does your kid need not what the studies say because none of these studies are long term, have the right sample of kids, etc. They are made by people who are selling consulting services to people who think there is money to be made in the pandemic or to justify their wfh job in a pandemic.

One of my kids needs art and play and being silly. The other kid need structure, focus, ability to hear no and be okay with it. Look at your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At least I keep up with current events. I keep my eyes open.

That, and some data, would provide me with the data I requested.

Hi, education researcher here. There are not many final published reports out because it takes time to get the data and to get through the publication process. We are still in the middle of the pandemic and haven't completed a full year of DL. What we DO know about learning loss is mostly information from Hurricane Katrina. I encourage you to look through Google Scholar at data related to interrupted education resulting from Hurricane Katrina.

However, there are three specifically regarding COVID from non-profits that are respectable, and that we have been citing. They include:

Brookings: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2020/05/27/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-student-achievement-and-what-it-may-mean-for-educators/
NWEA: https://www.nwea.org/research/publication/the-covid-19-slide-what-summer-learning-loss-can-tell-us-about-the-potential-impact-of-school-closures-on-student-academic-achievement/
McKinsey (normally we would not use McKinsey, but this is good basic research): https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/covid-19-and-learning-loss-disparities-grow-and-students-need-help#:~:text=Students%20on%20average%20could%20lose,white%20students%20(Exhibit%206).

Learning loss is very real and well-documented.

Not impressed, “researcher”.

Learning loss after Katrina? When kids weren’t connected to a school and a teacher? Irrelevant.

The links you posted are all talking about disrupted education from the spring.

Since September, my school has been doing distance teaching every day with students who are all connected to teachers via a device. I am pushing back in the ASSUMPTION that these kids will not make expected progress.

[Anonymous]

Watch what is happening in France.

They are trying so hard to avoid a third lockdown. But they aren't going to be able to do it.

They don't have the rapid spread they had last October ... yet. They are calling their spread "a high plateau". But 1/10 cases tested now is the UK variant. That's the one they cannot stop without really shutting things down.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210203/a-third-lockdown-is-not-inevitable-says-frances-government-spokesman

They are doing all the things they can think of to avoid having to do another lockdown.

"A Friday evening meeting of the Defence Council was followed by a last-minute announcement from Prime Minister, who detailed the tightening of several rules including the closure of France's non-EU borders which he said was a "last chance" to avoid lockdown."

[Anonymous]

France Prime Minister will give an update today at 6 PM French time.

Interesting look at their numbers:

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210204/in-detail-are-frances-latest-covid-stats-enough-to-avoid-a-third-lockdown

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe can afford to go back to virtual because so many of their kids have been in-person. That means there is less urgency to get back because the mental health and learning loss are much lower than here. We should have been back from the start so we could build in breaks during surges.

I'm pushing back on claims of learning loss.

What data do you have to show that virtual schooling results in learning loss? Has it ever been tried before in the US to this extent?

In my house it's just common sense. Our DL is so bad that my child won't even log in anymore. It's basically just a teach yourself method, which only a few kids are able to do in elementary school. So I know he's not learning anything, because he's not even "attending" anymore.

[Anonymous]

Europe school updates:

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-51643556

Scotland:

Scotland's youngest pupils are likely to return to the classroom full time from 22 February.

The move will include all pupils in P1-P3 as well as pre-school children as part of a phased reopening.

There will also be a very limited part-time return for senior secondary pupils to allow them to complete work for national qualifications.

Further details about reopening will be released in a fortnight, alongside a timescale for the return of in-person learning for colleges and universities.

At the moment, schools, early learning and childcare services can only open their doors to the children of key workers and vulnerable youngsters. Some special schools are open.

England

Boris Johnson has told MPs that the government hopes to start reopening English schools on 8 March, depending on factors including the rate of vaccination amongst priority groups.

He said the government will tell teachers and parents when schools in England can reopen "as soon as we can". But he would not guarantee that this would be before the Easter holidays, due to begin before Good Friday on 2 April.

Primary and secondary schools have offered remote learning for most pupils since the beginning of January.

The children of key workers and children deemed vulnerable can still go to school each day. This includes those without access to a laptop at home, or a quiet place to study.

The government says schools should provide three to five hours of teaching a day for pupils at home, depending on age.

Colleges and universities are also teaching students remotely until mid-February - except courses for future key workers (including medicine and veterinary science).

Nurseries and other early years settings remain open.

Wales

First Minister Mark Drakeford has said that some primary children could begin a phased return to school from 22 February - just after half term - if Covid rates are falling.

Schools and colleges are open for children of key workers, vulnerable learners and those completing essential exams or assessments. Special schools are open where possible.

Northern Ireland

Schools will remain closed to most pupils until at least 8 March.

Vulnerable children and children of key workers can go to school and special schools can open.

What is happening about exams?

In England, A-levels, AS levels and GCSE exams have been cancelled and teachers' estimated grades will be used instead.

Primary school SATs will not go ahead this year, nor will phonics or timetable testing.

Scotland's Higher and Advanced Higher exams have been cancelled for 2021, with final grades to be based on teacher assessment. The National 5 exams have also been cancelled.

The Welsh government has cancelled GCSEs, AS and A-levels. Grades were going to be based on classroom assessments instead but will now be determined by teachers, based on evidence such as mock exams and coursework.

In Northern Ireland, no GCSE, AS and A-level examinations will go ahead this year. Alternative arrangements will be announced soon.

The government has paused plans to roll out rapid testing of close contacts in schools, except for a small number of secondary schools and colleges.

If any pupil or teacher tests positive for Covid, they must go home and self-isolate for 10 days. Anyone who has been in close contact with the person testing positive must also self-isolate.

Germany

In Germany, schools closed in mid-December and will remain shut until at least 14 February. Similarly, in Denmark and the Netherlands school closures are due to last until at least the second week of February.

France, Portugal, Spain

However, schools in France are open, with extra testing in place. Schools are also open in Portugal and Spain.

Italy

High school students in Italy have recently been allowed to return to normal lessons. They are divided into groups and full classroom occupancy is not allowed.

Greece

Greece also allowed reopening of primary schools and nurseries in January.