South Fairlington Residents on Record Saying it's Too Dangerous to Walk to Abingdon

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Amen. I could not care less about affordable housing. You can’t afford to live in Arlington, tough. I’d feel differently if maybe our teachers or firefighters or police officers were living in affordable housing, but they’re not. So let it die.

Flame away.

Wow. Just wow. Let them eat cake I guess.

Manassas and Woodbridge are perfectly fine for the middle class but not good enough Arlington’s poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Amen. I could not care less about affordable housing. You can’t afford to live in Arlington, tough. I’d feel differently if maybe our teachers or firefighters or police officers were living in affordable housing, but they’re not. So let it die.

Flame away.

Wow. Just wow. Let them eat cake I guess.

Wait - so these folks are literally starving? As in, famine? Plenty of middle class families live in more affordable areas and put up with a longer commute. You're telling me with all the County's budget cuts - and way more to come - Arlington can afford to bring MORE people here, and have taxpayers foot the bill? It's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Amen. I could not care less about affordable housing. You can’t afford to live in Arlington, tough. I’d feel differently if maybe our teachers or firefighters or police officers were living in affordable housing, but they’re not. So let it die.

Flame away.

Wow. Just wow. Let them eat cake I guess.

Wait - so these folks are literally starving? As in, famine? Plenty of middle class families live in more affordable areas and put up with a longer commute. You're telling me with all the County's budget cuts - and way more to come - Arlington can afford to bring MORE people here, and have taxpayers foot the bill? It's ridiculous.

It was a metaphor. So let me be less subtle. “Poor people” don’t deserve to live where they work? Hard to keep employees in low paying but necessary jobs then. All those people who work in the service industries you use should have hour-long commutes each way to work in a grocery store? Affordable housing is extremely competitive. There will never be enough for the need.
You’d probably be surprised at the diversity of who qualifies for affordable housing and how you interact with them in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Amen. I could not care less about affordable housing. You can’t afford to live in Arlington, tough. I’d feel differently if maybe our teachers or firefighters or police officers were living in affordable housing, but they’re not. So let it die.

Flame away.

Wow. Just wow. Let them eat cake I guess.

Wait - so these folks are literally starving? As in, famine? Plenty of middle class families live in more affordable areas and put up with a longer commute. You're telling me with all the County's budget cuts - and way more to come - Arlington can afford to bring MORE people here, and have taxpayers foot the bill? It's ridiculous.

It was a metaphor. So let me be less subtle. “Poor people” don’t deserve to live where they work? Hard to keep employees in low paying but necessary jobs then. All those people who work in the service industries you use should have hour-long commutes each way to work in a grocery store? Affordable housing is extremely competitive. There will never be enough for the need.
You’d probably be surprised at the diversity of who qualifies for affordable housing and how you interact with them in Arlington.

Oh please. There is PLENTY of “market rate” affordable housing in Arlington - which is great! The entire Barcroft Apartments + lots of Columbia Pike, all of those buildings in Westover, on Lee Hwy, etc. I’m saying there is no need to continue to build hundreds of CAFs when the schools are in a capacity crisis and we already can barely deal with the population we have. Spare me about long commutes. Plenty of people in this area have long commutes and no one has a right to live in the same county in which they work.

Pretty soon the way Arlington is looking there will only be rich and poor, no middle class whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the only answer to affordable housing in Arlington massive apt buildings? Do they not sprinkle affordable housing apartments in market rate buildings OR give out rental vouchers? (like section 8)

To answer your questions:

Yes, so they say.
No, not in meaningful numbers. It's easier/more efficient to just build a giant building or two.
Yes. Some of the only "landlords" in Arlington who will take section 8 vouchers are the CAFs.

It's complicated. But we could be doing a better job. Quality over quantity. We can't save the world in one zip code.

Yeah, I agree with quality over quantity. But it also seems that there are decades worth of research showing why giant affordable housing buildings are bad for everyone. I mean Caprini Green anyone? Although I guess that is public housing, which is different. Still...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the only answer to affordable housing in Arlington massive apt buildings? Do they not sprinkle affordable housing apartments in market rate buildings OR give out rental vouchers? (like section 8)

To answer your questions:

Yes, so they say.
No, not in meaningful numbers. It's easier/more efficient to just build a giant building or two.
Yes. Some of the only "landlords" in Arlington who will take section 8 vouchers are the CAFs.

It's complicated. But we could be doing a better job. Quality over quantity. We can't save the world in one zip code.

Yeah, I agree with quality over quantity. But it also seems that there are decades worth of research showing why giant affordable housing buildings are bad for everyone. I mean Caprini Green anyone? Although I guess that is public housing, which is different. Still...

Public housing is not different than a CAF. It's just more palatable to call it "affordable housing" than "public housing." And it's across the street from two other AH complexes. And there's nowhere to zone the kids in that building that isn't already higher than avg. fr/l. Ridiculous. I believe we need Affordable Housing, but it needs to be spread out, and I think the current amount is close to the maximum our community can handle. Honestly, it's very expensive. This is a high-needs population who require a lot of additional support outside of just housing. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that our school system can handle much more than the 30% fr/l that it is now. How many kids can the system support well? Probably not as many as they intend to build for. Look at that teacher over on AEM. She's telling the truth. It's very difficult for one teacher to appropriately support a classroom where more than half the students need additional supports and face impediments to education beyond the school's control. And there is no additional money for the things that could ameliorate her concerns, in fact, there are big cuts ahead of us. And that's not even getting into what concentrating low income housing does to a neighborhood. Businesses don't locate in communities that can't support them. Columbia Pike doesn't need another Vape or check-cashing store.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the only answer to affordable housing in Arlington massive apt buildings? Do they not sprinkle affordable housing apartments in market rate buildings OR give out rental vouchers? (like section 8)

To answer your questions:

Yes, so they say.
No, not in meaningful numbers. It's easier/more efficient to just build a giant building or two.
Yes. Some of the only "landlords" in Arlington who will take section 8 vouchers are the CAFs.

It's complicated. But we could be doing a better job. Quality over quantity. We can't save the world in one zip code.

Yeah, I agree with quality over quantity. But it also seems that there are decades worth of research showing why giant affordable housing buildings are bad for everyone. I mean Caprini Green anyone? Although I guess that is public housing, which is different. Still...

Public housing is not different than a CAF. It's just more palatable to call it "affordable housing" than "public housing." And it's across the street from two other AH complexes. And there's nowhere to zone the kids in that building that isn't already higher than avg. fr/l. Ridiculous. I believe we need Affordable Housing, but it needs to be spread out, and I think the current amount is close to the maximum our community can handle. Honestly, it's very expensive. This is a high-needs population who require a lot of additional support outside of just housing. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that our school system can handle much more than the 30% fr/l that it is now. How many kids can the system support well? Probably not as many as they intend to build for. Look at that teacher over on AEM. She's telling the truth. It's very difficult for one teacher to appropriately support a classroom where more than half the students need additional supports and face impediments to education beyond the school's control. And there is no additional money for the things that could ameliorate her concerns, in fact, there are big cuts ahead of us. And that's not even getting into what concentrating low income housing does to a neighborhood. Businesses don't locate in communities that can't support them. Columbia Pike doesn't need another Vape or check-cashing store.

I can agree with all of this. Interesting I hadn't really heard much about Columbia Hills, but I guess that is new affordable housing going into Abingdon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Amen. I could not care less about affordable housing. You can’t afford to live in Arlington, tough. I’d feel differently if maybe our teachers or firefighters or police officers were living in affordable housing, but they’re not. So let it die.

Flame away.

Wow. Just wow. Let them eat cake I guess.

Wait - so these folks are literally starving? As in, famine? Plenty of middle class families live in more affordable areas and put up with a longer commute. You're telling me with all the County's budget cuts - and way more to come - Arlington can afford to bring MORE people here, and have taxpayers foot the bill? It's ridiculous.

It was a metaphor. So let me be less subtle. “Poor people” don’t deserve to live where they work? Hard to keep employees in low paying but necessary jobs then. All those people who work in the service industries you use should have hour-long commutes each way to work in a grocery store? Affordable housing is extremely competitive. There will never be enough for the need.
You’d probably be surprised at the diversity of who qualifies for affordable housing and how you interact with them in Arlington.

Oh please. There is PLENTY of “market rate” affordable housing in Arlington - which is great! The entire Barcroft Apartments + lots of Columbia Pike, all of those buildings in Westover, on Lee Hwy, etc. I’m saying there is no need to continue to build hundreds of CAFs when the schools are in a capacity crisis and we already can barely deal with the population we have. Spare me about long commutes. Plenty of people in this area have long commutes and no one has a right to live in the same county in which they work.

Pretty soon the way Arlington is looking there will only be rich and poor, no middle class whatsoever.

I do agree with you about the squeezing out of the middle class. And I also agree adding large-scale affordable housing without addressing infrastructure like schools and roads is not ok. But to say ‘I don’t care about “poor people”’ smacks of elitism and I have to counter. I grew up in a mostly white area, but my elementary, middle, and high school was (and still is) about 33% FRL- of which I was in included. Why? Cause my parents made a few poor financial choices and it took some time to get back on their feet. There’s so many reasons to need AH. Elderly people on fixed incomes who’ve lived here decades, the disabled, working-class families... We live in an artificial bubble here- Arlington is rich, much richer than other places. Middle class here is doing pretty well.

But getting back to the middle class, I would LOVE to see the building of SFHs less than $750K to support the Arlington version middle-class. But that’s not happening. We’re either building McMansions on tiny lots or multi family. There’s no middle ground. In a way, that’s great for me that I own a commodity they just aren’t making in Arlington anymore- a somewhat affordable SFH.

Hmm, this thread got off topic..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Amen. I could not care less about affordable housing. You can’t afford to live in Arlington, tough. I’d feel differently if maybe our teachers or firefighters or police officers were living in affordable housing, but they’re not. So let it die.

Flame away.

Wow. Just wow. Let them eat cake I guess.

Wait - so these folks are literally starving? As in, famine? Plenty of middle class families live in more affordable areas and put up with a longer commute. You're telling me with all the County's budget cuts - and way more to come - Arlington can afford to bring MORE people here, and have taxpayers foot the bill? It's ridiculous.

It was a metaphor. So let me be less subtle. “Poor people” don’t deserve to live where they work? Hard to keep employees in low paying but necessary jobs then. All those people who work in the service industries you use should have hour-long commutes each way to work in a grocery store? Affordable housing is extremely competitive. There will never be enough for the need.
You’d probably be surprised at the diversity of who qualifies for affordable housing and how you interact with them in Arlington.

Oh please. There is PLENTY of “market rate” affordable housing in Arlington - which is great! The entire Barcroft Apartments + lots of Columbia Pike, all of those buildings in Westover, on Lee Hwy, etc. I’m saying there is no need to continue to build hundreds of CAFs when the schools are in a capacity crisis and we already can barely deal with the population we have. Spare me about long commutes. Plenty of people in this area have long commutes and no one has a right to live in the same county in which they work.

Pretty soon the way Arlington is looking there will only be rich and poor, no middle class whatsoever.

I do agree with you about the squeezing out of the middle class. And I also agree adding large-scale affordable housing without addressing infrastructure like schools and roads is not ok. But to say ‘I don’t care about “poor people”’ smacks of elitism and I have to counter. I grew up in a mostly white area, but my elementary, middle, and high school was (and still is) about 33% FRL- of which I was in included. Why? Cause my parents made a few poor financial choices and it took some time to get back on their feet. There’s so many reasons to need AH. Elderly people on fixed incomes who’ve lived here decades, the disabled, working-class families... We live in an artificial bubble here- Arlington is rich, much richer than other places. Middle class here is doing pretty well.

But getting back to the middle class, I would LOVE to see the building of SFHs less than $750K to support the Arlington version middle-class. But that’s not happening. We’re either building McMansions on tiny lots or multi family. There’s no middle ground. In a way, that’s great for me that I own a commodity they just aren’t making in Arlington anymore- a somewhat affordable SFH.

Hmm, this thread got off topic..

There is so much wrong with this post and to address it all would really be getting off topic, so I’ll refrain. I’m not sure you live in S. Arlington, because if you did you would see the irony in everything tounjust wrote. However, I must correct something. I never said I don’t care about poor people - and neither did anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly not all SF residents feel the same way, but it seems politically expedient that suddenly the bridge is the next best thing to sliced bread and Fairlington United's webpage is arguing that their PU should become a walk zone. I'd find them more credible if they'd made the case more forcefully during the walk zone review.

But why? I mean, if I can have the option of putting my kid on a bus on a cold rainy day instead of walking a mile in the rain, lots of people would opt for that. It makes sense to me that they wouldn't have rocked the boat during the walk zone review, even if they were naive to think that it wouldn't come back to bite them.

But that's the whole point. If you're not really walking all the time and would prefer a bus, then you aren't walkers. Most people are not walking and APS has that data. It's better for kids who'd otherwise be driven individually to be bused to school, better for traffic and the environment. If they can bus to one school, they can bus to another adjacent school just as easily as any other neighborhood that is on the table. It's their kids or someone else's. APS should select the option that provides the best outcome for the system, not just one group of students or another.

Having all the extra cars in the drop off is going to be a true nightmare. The design of it really is terrible. I have to drop off by car once a month or so and dread it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the only answer to affordable housing in Arlington massive apt buildings? Do they not sprinkle affordable housing apartments in market rate buildings OR give out rental vouchers? (like section 8)

To answer your questions:

Yes, so they say.
No, not in meaningful numbers. It's easier/more efficient to just build a giant building or two.
Yes. Some of the only "landlords" in Arlington who will take section 8 vouchers are the CAFs.

It's complicated. But we could be doing a better job. Quality over quantity. We can't save the world in one zip code.

Yeah, I agree with quality over quantity. But it also seems that there are decades worth of research showing why giant affordable housing buildings are bad for everyone. I mean Caprini Green anyone? Although I guess that is public housing, which is different. Still...

Public housing is not different than a CAF. It's just more palatable to call it "affordable housing" than "public housing." And it's across the street from two other AH complexes. And there's nowhere to zone the kids in that building that isn't already higher than avg. fr/l. Ridiculous. I believe we need Affordable Housing, but it needs to be spread out, and I think the current amount is close to the maximum our community can handle. Honestly, it's very expensive. This is a high-needs population who require a lot of additional support outside of just housing. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that our school system can handle much more than the 30% fr/l that it is now. How many kids can the system support well? Probably not as many as they intend to build for. Look at that teacher over on AEM. She's telling the truth. It's very difficult for one teacher to appropriately support a classroom where more than half the students need additional supports and face impediments to education beyond the school's control. And there is no additional money for the things that could ameliorate her concerns, in fact, there are big cuts ahead of us. And that's not even getting into what concentrating low income housing does to a neighborhood. Businesses don't locate in communities that can't support them. Columbia Pike doesn't need another Vape or check-cashing store.

It is different - our CAFs are not owned and operated by the government. They are built, owned, and operated by the affordable housing developers APAH, AHC, Westley. Nevertheless, the effects of concentration are the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Yeah, well you are in a minority in Arlington, even Vihstadt supports it. The people of Arlington do not want a County which has no more poor people. They want some SES diversity. Given the loss of market rate AH, that means some committed AH.

And if they want that spread more evenly among different schools, while at the same time wanting compact, walkable school zones, that means spreading the AH around. That's just math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Yeah, well you are in a minority in Arlington, even Vihstadt supports it. The people of Arlington do not want a County which has no more poor people. They want some SES diversity. Given the loss of market rate AH, that means some committed AH.

And if they want that spread more evenly among different schools, while at the same time wanting compact, walkable school zones, that means spreading the AH around. That's just math.

Just math tells me that that isn’t going to happen. Even if it were, it is certainly nowhere on the horizon. AH advocates need to slow their roll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the only answer to affordable housing in Arlington massive apt buildings? Do they not sprinkle affordable housing apartments in market rate buildings OR give out rental vouchers? (like section 8)

To answer your questions:

Yes, so they say.
No, not in meaningful numbers. It's easier/more efficient to just build a giant building or two.
Yes. Some of the only "landlords" in Arlington who will take section 8 vouchers are the CAFs.

It's complicated. But we could be doing a better job. Quality over quantity. We can't save the world in one zip code.

Yeah, I agree with quality over quantity. But it also seems that there are decades worth of research showing why giant affordable housing buildings are bad for everyone. I mean Caprini Green anyone? Although I guess that is public housing, which is different. Still...

I am the PP who first mentioned AH. Let's clarify a few things.

1. There are NO commited AH buildings in Arlington that resemble Cabrini Green. None. Cabrini at its peak had over 3500 units, and was, I think, 15 stories tall. Nothing like it in Arlington, and constantly mentioning it is a scare tactic

2. There ways to create Committed AH at smaller scales than the 6 story buildings being done on Columbia Pike. In Fairlington, which is an historic district, I would not envision ANY new construction, but rather buying a scattering of units and converting them to committed AH.

3. I am sure some AC folks don't want any committed AH. Some Fairlington residents support committed AH, but don't want any in Fairlington. But the fact is, if there IS going to be SES diversity at Abingdon, AND Abingdon is to be a walkable neighborhood ES for all Fairlington, the way to get that is to have AH IN Fairlington. That's just math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real solution to this would be to have committed affordable housing in Fairlington. Then they could have kept the neighborhood together (I agree it really is one neighborhood, and walkable throughout) and also have had SES diversity at Abingdon ES.

Actually the real solution is to stop building f'ing affordable housing. We do not have the infrastructure to support continuing to increase the population, especially a population that often needs additional wrap-around services. I have nothing against poor people, but I have lots against a County Board that doesn't give a crap about our students.

I don't support AH on the Pike. I don't support it on Lee Highway. It's like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like it anywhere.
Rant over.

Yeah, well you are in a minority in Arlington, even Vihstadt supports it. The people of Arlington do not want a County which has no more poor people. They want some SES diversity. Given the loss of market rate AH, that means some committed AH.

And if they want that spread more evenly among different schools, while at the same time wanting compact, walkable school zones, that means spreading the AH around. That's just math.

Just math tells me that that isn’t going to happen. Even if it were, it is certainly nowhere on the horizon. AH advocates need to slow their roll.

I agree its not likely. But that is the context for the discussion. Given that AH in Fairlington is not going to happen, the choices are relative SES segregation, or breaking up the walkable community. People need to realize that S Fairlington leaving Abingdon is likely the price to pay for keeping AH out of Fairlington.