Continue at current school after moving out of boundary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
With the lottery every year, and everyone always trying for the next best thing, your schools have too much churn as it is. Why are you adding to it?

Because of the feeder rights sacred cow. Which means that under your proposed system, if your rent IB for one year, kindergarten, at Janney, you have a path through that school, overcrowded Deal, and overcrowded Wilson. The overcrowding problem becomes exponentially worse with feeder rights.

Without feeder rights, the magnitude of the problem is totally different and the allowing families to stay when they move OOB might make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For this year, it is up to the principal's discretion. Some schools will let you do this, some won't. But the boundary changes had a provision that has not yet been implemented (which could be as early as next year) that once you move out of bounds, you can only stay if you secure a spot through the OOB lottery.

Yikes, that would suck. Would that only apply to new families or would they implement it for families already enrolled in a school?

All families. If they implement it, you could enter the lottery for 2016-7 and only move if you get an OOB spot in your school. If you don't, just keep living in your house (or change schools).

I think it's a very reasonable policy. You get to finish out the school year but after that you go to your new IB school or one you get into through the lottery. This is designed to avoid the situation where someone rents a place IB for an in-demand school for a few months when their kid is 3 or 4 and then has a right to go there and to all feeder schools for the next 14 years (plus preference for younger sibs). If they only applied it to new families there would still be decades of overcrowding at WOTP and a few other schools.

+1. I really, really hope this gets implemented asap.

Well it would actually suck for families like mine just trying to live our lives without having our child bouncing to a new school for no reason. We'll probably be a 6-minute car ride away instead of 3 minutes. And it's not a fancy WOTP school, just a good EOTP school that we're sort of invested in now and that I wouldn't want to leave. But yes, we are renting (have been for two years) and we would like to buy a house in the area. In boundary for the current school would be great, but that's actually a pretty limited area. It seems silly to create a blanket rule like that when there are legitimate reasons people might want to stay in a school other than that they're "gaming the system."

OP you aren't making any sense. Your school has boundaries for a reason - to disperse students across many schools to make sure schools don't get overcrowded. You move out of those boundaries and yes, you do need to move schools. And for the record is has been a major issues at some schools that parents would rent for a year and then move OB to a cheaper location while still wanting to keep their kid at the original school. Many people want to game the system. Many schools are over crowded. It's not "silly" - it is actually perfectly fair.

Thank you, Voice of Reason

[Anonymous]

There are only a handful of schools that have wait lists for OOB students. Those schools are overcrowded and need to control their numbers. Therefore they need to enforce the rules about boundaries. Many many more schools do not have this problem and You can easily attend from OOB. I suggest you try one of those.

Thanks, but we actually live IB for a highly desirable school and aren't planning on moving. I don't give a rat's ass for myself--but I have personal experience (which most of you do not) with a system that successfully does NOT do this, and it works. It works great. Since coming to DC I have been shocked at how even at a highly desirable school, there's so much churn and instability.

I'm going to chalk it up to the same brilliant minds in this city that gave us the underground parking garages, the tests that take 9 months to score, the one-year principal contracts, the lack of any bussing or transit options for the charter schools they approve (or crossing guards. Every day I drive by an intersection that has 4 charters on it, and another one block away. The cars are all going 25, and I have never seen a crossing guard). I realize that you're upset about Janney. Poor, poor Janney. What this policy will actually hurt is schools like Powell, West and Bancroft. Tubman. Cooke. The bedrock of their community families erode, and being replaced in the neighborhood with people who are too high-SES to go to those schools. Oh, I know, but now you'll tell me it's not an issue, because "OOB slots! They'll have plenty!" So every year a family has to roll the dice to see if they can continue at a school? For all of their kids? And, furthermore, you're willing to employ a whole host of people to investigate them for possible residence fraud?

Sometimes I think you don't deserve public schools. I'm sorry, but I get kind of frustrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are only a handful of schools that have wait lists for OOB students. Those schools are overcrowded and need to control their numbers. Therefore they need to enforce the rules about boundaries. Many many more schools do not have this problem and You can easily attend from OOB. I suggest you try one of those.

Thanks, but we actually live IB for a highly desirable school and aren't planning on moving. I don't give a rat's ass for myself--but I have personal experience (which most of you do not) with a system that successfully does NOT do this, and it works. It works great. Since coming to DC I have been shocked at how even at a highly desirable school, there's so much churn and instability.

I'm going to chalk it up to the same brilliant minds in this city that gave us the underground parking garages, the tests that take 9 months to score, the one-year principal contracts, the lack of any bussing or transit options for the charter schools they approve (or crossing guards. Every day I drive by an intersection that has 4 charters on it, and another one block away. The cars are all going 25, and I have never seen a crossing guard). I realize that you're upset about Janney. Poor, poor Janney. What this policy will actually hurt is schools like Powell, West and Bancroft. Tubman. Cooke. The bedrock of their community families erode, and being replaced in the neighborhood with people who are too high-SES to go to those schools. Oh, I know, but now you'll tell me it's not an issue, because "OOB slots! They'll have plenty!" So every year a family has to roll the dice to see if they can continue at a school? For all of their kids? And, furthermore, you're willing to employ a whole host of people to investigate them for possible residence fraud?

Sometimes I think you don't deserve public schools. I'm sorry, but I get kind of frustrated.

One factual error: once you have an OOB slot, it's yours to keep, regardless of whether you move. You also get the feeder rights that come with the school you are attending.

The thing is DC used to have what you described in NY - it was called principal discretion and most principals let children stay. And the result was the imbalance and overcrowding at a few schools we have today.

[Anonymous]

The thing is DC used to have what you described in NY - it was called principal discretion and most principals let children stay. And the result was the imbalance and overcrowding at a few schools we have today.

If a school is overcrowded, you can expand it. I realize that costs money, but I know of one school that's pile driving steel supports into its second-floor expansion only to support the weight of a kiln. Murch is expanding as it is. And your EOTP schools are never going to improve if you keep fragmenting their communities. That's quite simple. If a school is overcrowded, there are a host of options that don't involve disrupting a child's education because their parents have to move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are only a handful of schools that have wait lists for OOB students. Those schools are overcrowded and need to control their numbers. Therefore they need to enforce the rules about boundaries. Many many more schools do not have this problem and You can easily attend from OOB. I suggest you try one of those.

Thanks, but we actually live IB for a highly desirable school and aren't planning on moving. I don't give a rat's ass for myself--but I have personal experience (which most of you do not) with a system that successfully does NOT do this, and it works. It works great. Since coming to DC I have been shocked at how even at a highly desirable school, there's so much churn and instability.

I'm going to chalk it up to the same brilliant minds in this city that gave us the underground parking garages, the tests that take 9 months to score, the one-year principal contracts, the lack of any bussing or transit options for the charter schools they approve (or crossing guards. Every day I drive by an intersection that has 4 charters on it, and another one block away. The cars are all going 25, and I have never seen a crossing guard). I realize that you're upset about Janney. Poor, poor Janney. What this policy will actually hurt is schools like Powell, West and Bancroft. Tubman. Cooke. The bedrock of their community families erode, and being replaced in the neighborhood with people who are too high-SES to go to those schools. Oh, I know, but now you'll tell me it's not an issue, because "OOB slots! They'll have plenty!" So every year a family has to roll the dice to see if they can continue at a school? For all of their kids? And, furthermore, you're willing to employ a whole host of people to investigate them for possible residence fraud?

Sometimes I think you don't deserve public schools. I'm sorry, but I get kind of frustrated.

NP here - I don't think you understand the policy right. I have kids at one of those EOTP schools you listed. If there are OOB slots, and someone lotteries in one year, then they can continue on at the school without doing the lottery again. On top of that, they now get sibling preference, so they can bring in siblings more easily. Some of our most engaged parents come from OOB by a few blocks, and can make better peers than "too-high SES to go to those schools" folks.

Also, I think the residency police moms are not at these schools... they're more the Janney types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are only a handful of schools that have wait lists for OOB students. Those schools are overcrowded and need to control their numbers. Therefore they need to enforce the rules about boundaries. Many many more schools do not have this problem and You can easily attend from OOB. I suggest you try one of those.

Thanks, but we actually live IB for a highly desirable school and aren't planning on moving. I don't give a rat's ass for myself--but I have personal experience (which most of you do not) with a system that successfully does NOT do this, and it works. It works great. Since coming to DC I have been shocked at how even at a highly desirable school, there's so much churn and instability.

I'm going to chalk it up to the same brilliant minds in this city that gave us the underground parking garages, the tests that take 9 months to score, the one-year principal contracts, the lack of any bussing or transit options for the charter schools they approve (or crossing guards. Every day I drive by an intersection that has 4 charters on it, and another one block away. The cars are all going 25, and I have never seen a crossing guard). I realize that you're upset about Janney. Poor, poor Janney. What this policy will actually hurt is schools like Powell, West and Bancroft. Tubman. Cooke. The bedrock of their community families erode, and being replaced in the neighborhood with people who are too high-SES to go to those schools. Oh, I know, but now you'll tell me it's not an issue, because "OOB slots! They'll have plenty!" So every year a family has to roll the dice to see if they can continue at a school? For all of their kids? And, furthermore, you're willing to employ a whole host of people to investigate them for possible residence fraud?

Sometimes I think you don't deserve public schools. I'm sorry, but I get kind of frustrated.

Sounds like you need to go private.

[Anonymous]

Also, I think the residency police moms are not at these schools... they're more the Janney types.

You're right, I didn't understand that. And I knew there was a reason we didn't move IB for Janney

But the main point is still there. If you want to encourage cohesion and community, you need to have policies that support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The thing is DC used to have what you described in NY - it was called principal discretion and most principals let children stay. And the result was the imbalance and overcrowding at a few schools we have today.

If a school is overcrowded, you can expand it. I realize that costs money, but I know of one school that's pile driving steel supports into its second-floor expansion only to support the weight of a kiln. Murch is expanding as it is. And your EOTP schools are never going to improve if you keep fragmenting their communities. That's quite simple. If a school is overcrowded, there are a host of options that don't involve disrupting a child's education because their parents have to move.

Yes, Deal for all! Let's just have one middle school for all children in DC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, I think the residency police moms are not at these schools... they're more the Janney types.

You're right, I didn't understand that. And I knew there was a reason we didn't move IB for Janney

But the main point is still there. If you want to encourage cohesion and community, you need to have policies that support it.

I think the policy does support it. It means that a family that rented IB WOTP for a year and then moved EOTP doesn't get to continue at their WOTP school. They may or may not send their kids to the EOTP school in the neighborhood they moved to, but I imagine some percentage of those will. It may even discourage them from moving to the EOTP neighborhood, and instead someone who is comfortable with the schools can move there.

[Anonymous]

It is not just about WOTP schools. Which seems to be the point you are deliberately not understanding. It is about keeping communities at EOTP schools. We're zoned IB for Deal and I don't want to send my kids there because it's so crowded. So I do understand that some schools are overcrowded. That's why "principal discretion" works. A blanket rule enforcing this stuff in areas that don't actually need it is not going to help anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not just about WOTP schools. Which seems to be the point you are deliberately not understanding. It is about keeping communities at EOTP schools. We're zoned IB for Deal and I don't want to send my kids there because it's so crowded. So I do understand that some schools are overcrowded. That's why "principal discretion" works. A blanket rule enforcing this stuff in areas that don't actually need it is not going to help anyone.

Can you provide an example, with specific schools? Ross has a s-load of IB families at a very small school, so a handful of families who move out of IB is not going to hurt their community one whit. What are some other examples? I know a LOT of families EOTP who are attending rising EOTP schools - Powell, Seaton, West - but they have all lotteried in from OOB and can move wherever they like.

[Anonymous]

NYC does indeed deal with overcrowding at desired schools but the way they handle it is to simply deny spaces to those IB.

"However, because of severe overcrowding in some neighborhoods and the popularity of certain schools, it is not always possible for your child to attend his or her zoned elementary school. If this happens, you will be placed on a waiting list. If by late spring your child is still on the waiting list for a zoned elementary school, the Department of Education’s Office of Student Enrollment will assign the child to another school outside his or her zone. "
http://www.wnyc.org/schoolbook/guides/enrollment/

How on earth is that a better solution? Your IB kid now cannot attend his neighborhood school -- if you want to address schools and community fabrics, this is a rotten solution. And one that could never be replicated in DC due to the differences in density, geography and public transport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NYC does indeed deal with overcrowding at desired schools but the way they handle it is to simply deny spaces to those IB.

"However, because of severe overcrowding in some neighborhoods and the popularity of certain schools, it is not always possible for your child to attend his or her zoned elementary school. If this happens, you will be placed on a waiting list. If by late spring your child is still on the waiting list for a zoned elementary school, the Department of Education’s Office of Student Enrollment will assign the child to another school outside his or her zone. "
http://www.wnyc.org/schoolbook/guides/enrollment/

How on earth is that a better solution? Your IB kid now cannot attend his neighborhood school -- if you want to address schools and community fabrics, this is a rotten solution. And one that could never be replicated in DC due to the differences in density, geography and public transport.

We could then replicate the PK4 at Brent battles all over the city. Good times!

[Anonymous]

That's only happening in a few areas, and in most of them NYC has also built new schools to accommodate the overflow, or has the planning to do so built into future development (DUMBO and Brooklyn Heights). Case in point, PS 312 in Park Slope--rezoned, and the overflow sent to a new school with 312's AP as their principal. New York schools are also dealing with volumes and class sizes you can't even imagine. And charters co-located within them. And, I'm pretty sure, less spending per pupil. And a LOT less real estate to expand into. Especially in Manhattan. But if you want to cry about a few Manhattanites who are now forced to walk their kids seven blocks to school instead of two, go right ahead. There are also some very crowded schools in Queens. Additionally, when the neighborhood school can't fit kids (only a real issue in K, in most places), they'd be bussed to the next school--not left to the whims of their parents in a car like here. As you said, the geography and transit options are different. That doesn't mean better.

The point is, even with New York's overcrowding, they have a very functional system compared to DC.

What you are proposing to do is to take one of the few things about DC's system that almost makes sense and replace it with more bureaucracy. You may only know people at Powell who lotteried in from OOB, but that might be because you do not actually know the people who live near Powell now and are being priced out of their communities. I get the impression it wouldn't bother you if they all left, but personally, one great thing about our NY school was how my kids were in the same class with kids for four years. Kids whose parents came from all walks of life. If you make all the renters have to lottery in, you're losing something important.