Redshirted and Regretted It?

[Anonymous]

I just posted this to the same thread in a different forum (Schools General Discussion), but it applies just as much here:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This addresses the inverse (or perhaps more correctly the converse?) of your question. I know of someone who did not red-shirt and has always regretted it.

How come?

The boy was a late September birthday, barely made the cut-off for his year. He was a bright kid, but A) was on the small side and B) had a really Type A older sibling. Children sometimes react as much to their birth order as they do to their peers. So between the older sib already filling the "academic star" role the younger one probably didn't try as hard as he might have otherwise. And then since he was on the small side he didn't really find a niche in athletics either. It wasn't until high school when he had a big growth spurt that he passed his peers in size, but by then he didn't really see himself as either academic or athletic (though he had PLENTY of innate talent to have been either or both). He was sort of in the wrong place at the wrong time as far as the school year went and it was a cycle that perpetuated itself. He eventually dropped out of high school and got his GED. He then enrolled in Community College, and moved up to a State University and graduated with a 4-year degree but he had to learn the hard way how to be confident in himself. Did you know only about 4% of high school drop outs go on to get 4-year university degrees? Daunting. Meanwhile his older sibling got a Ntl. Merit and attended an elite university (so it's not as if the raw genetics and disciplined upbringing weren't there). It would have been so much easier for him if he had grown up with a lot of that confidence built in.

He's my younger brother, so I know his story pretty well. He's also successful in what he does now - it didn't ruin his life. It made it a LOT harder though. More than you could ever know.

[Anonymous]

sounds like there was more going on in his family environment that just having a "type A" older brother. Simply being on the small side for a boy, and one of the youngest is not going to solely cause the problems you mentioned.

My brother-in-law is 5'7" (so clearly on the small side) and was the 2nd youngest in his grade almost the entire way through his school career. He did very well socially, attended an Ivy, and then went on to Harvard Law. I only mention the Ivy schools as objective evidence of doing well academically. He says that he was aware of being younger and smaller, but that he felt good about himself nonetheless and felt successful socially and academically. This just goes to show that being younger and smaller for a boy with respect to peers does not automatically mean having little confidence and having problems your entire life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:sounds like there was more going on in his family environment that just having a "type A" older brother. Simply being on the small side for a boy, and one of the youngest is not going to solely cause the problems you mentioned.

My brother-in-law is 5'7" (so clearly on the small side) and was the 2nd youngest in his grade almost the entire way through his school career. He did very well socially, attended an Ivy, and then went on to Harvard Law. I only mention the Ivy schools as objective evidence of doing well academically. He says that he was aware of being younger and smaller, but that he felt good about himself nonetheless and felt successful socially and academically. This just goes to show that being younger and smaller for a boy with respect to peers does not automatically mean having little confidence and having problems your entire life.

#1 Obviously there was more going on his life. There is more going on in anyone's life than can be condensed into a short story, much less a DCUM posting. There was however, nothing material I'm leaving out, unless you consider me being his older sister (not brother) of significance. People are different. They react differently to different situations. You were not there. You are in no position to know.

#2 You inferred that he had problems his entire life, but that's not something I said. In fact, it's not even close. I told you he's successful now, but he did it the hard way. My brother was the very youngest in his class and the very smallest in his class for many consecutive years. He's a good looking guy (most people in television are). He's now a successful sports anchor (not locally). There's nothing automatic about how someone might react - and I'm quite sure I never suggested that it is - this is merely how the circumstances unfolded for one person. However, it would have been much easier with the right shot of confidence at the right time. Developing a little more quickly in combination with not being at the lag end of the bell curve would have made a big difference.

#3 For all we know your brother's extremely short stature gave him exactly the sort of Napoleon Complex that leads many short Ivy men into Law. He would hardly be the first. People are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this to the same thread in a different forum (Schools General Discussion), but it applies just as much here:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This addresses the inverse (or perhaps more correctly the converse?) of your question. I know of someone who did not red-shirt and has always regretted it.

How come?

FYI, in the "Schools General Discussion" forum, there are some regrets about redshirting expressed and some parents questioning their decision to redshirt.

[Anonymous]

to poster 13:17
Why are you so defensive? No one was attacking you or your brother, so no need to do that to anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:to poster 13:17
Why are you so defensive? No one was attacking you or your brother, so no need to do that to anyone else.

If I misread, I apologize. The phrases "having problems your entire life" and "sounds like there was more going on in his family environment that just having a "type A" older brother" came across like veiled attacks to me. On the other hand, it's easy to misread tone of voice in a forum like this, when after all there's no tone of voice to hear. Mea culpa.

[Anonymous]

I'm the "inner jockette" PP -- don't want to hijack the thread, but here's some good news for moms of summer birthday boys and girls who worry about their children not being successful in sports: the cutoff date for summer swim team age groups is May 31. That means your summer birthday child will have a huge advantage if he/she likes to swim. For example, my daughter will turn 9 in June, but she'll still swim with the "8 and under" group. My son, who will turn 15 in July, will swim with the 13-14 age group. He's calling it his "last golden summer". For all you die-hard"redshirting" opponents, before you flame away, please count to 10 and see if you can't lighten up a bit. :} And now I'm off to watch the Women's Final 4! Love that little 5'7" UConn starting point guard -- she's got game!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this to the same thread in a different forum (Schools General Discussion), but it applies just as much here:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This addresses the inverse (or perhaps more correctly the converse?) of your question. I know of someone who did not red-shirt and has always regretted it.

How come?

The boy was a late September birthday, barely made the cut-off for his year. He was a bright kid, but A) was on the small side and B) had a really Type A older sibling. Children sometimes react as much to their birth order as they do to their peers. So between the older sib already filling the "academic star" role the younger one probably didn't try as hard as he might have otherwise. And then since he was on the small side he didn't really find a niche in athletics either. It wasn't until high school when he had a big growth spurt that he passed his peers in size, but by then he didn't really see himself as either academic or athletic (though he had PLENTY of innate talent to have been either or both). He was sort of in the wrong place at the wrong time as far as the school year went and it was a cycle that perpetuated itself. He eventually dropped out of high school and got his GED. He then enrolled in Community College, and moved up to a State University and graduated with a 4-year degree but he had to learn the hard way how to be confident in himself. Did you know only about 4% of high school drop outs go on to get 4-year university degrees? Daunting. Meanwhile his older sibling got a Ntl. Merit and attended an elite university (so it's not as if the raw genetics and disciplined upbringing weren't there). It would have been so much easier for him if he had grown up with a lot of that confidence built in.

He's my younger brother, so I know his story pretty well. He's also successful in what he does now - it didn't ruin his life. It made it a LOT harder though. More than you could ever know.

Oh please. How in the world can you blame all of this on him not being held back a year? It's ridiculous. It's more about your family dynamics than anything else. Raw genetics? Disciplined upbringing? Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Red shirt all of the summer kids, and then the spring kids are the youngest. The cut-off used to be later. I was born 12/24 and turned 18 after one semester of college. Never excelled at sports, but I wouldn't have done any better with a year's advantage. Let's face it-- there are freshmen who make varsity and seniors still on JV regardless of this "redshirting."

Somebody has to be the youngest. Kids are born all year round but school starts in the fall. I don't look at whether my child is "advanced" as other children but at whether she can succeed in the school environment. Can't imagine telling her that I don't think that she could.

Exactly, do you want your kids to be around kids their own age or around younger kids? Who succeeds and fails when the comparison is all younger?

What happens when everybody redshirts? Remember the line from "The Incredibles", "when everyone is super, no one is".

Is that what we are devolving to?

Can you hold him back now or is it too late?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

" Okay, BUT, doesn't this confidence disappear when the child realizes that his parents didn't have the confidence to send him to school when he was age-eligible? Doesn't this result in a feeling that you are not "as smart as" your younger classmates? Or, if you are ahead academically, do you just attribute it to being older and not necessarily smarter?

Couldn't have said it better myself. And while athletics are fun and important, unless you see serious Division 1/Pro level acumen, does it really matter?

We're talking about instilling confidence in a young boy in elementary school and allowing him to be well rounded and explore his interests. I'm not sure how much fun sitting the bench b/c you are a year and a half younger than your classmates would be. Certainly I do not see how this would instill confidence. In a situation where redshirting is common, a child isn't likely to question his academic ability. BTW, I am male, if it matters. My wife showed me this thread and asked me to chime in...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. How in the world can you blame all of this on him not being held back a year? It's ridiculous. It's more about your family dynamics than anything else. Raw genetics? Disciplined upbringing? Yuck.

Let's pretend your attack merits a response. Do you think you know something that isn't being revealed? Do you have a special eye into everyone's personal history? Or is it possible you just don't like this conclusion and would attack anything that doesn't suit your purposes...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Oh please. How in the world can you blame all of this on him not being held back a year? It's ridiculous. It's more about your family dynamics than anything else. Raw genetics? Disciplined upbringing? Yuck.

Oh please. How on the word can you bloviate on a subject about which you know nothing? It's ridiculous. It's more about your desire for a conclusion to conform to your expectations and your resentment when someone presents evidence to the contrary. Your resentment? Your frustration? Yuck.

Seriously anon, you know nothing. You don't know my talented brother and you don't know what it's like to be the littlest, youngest guy in class. If it didn't completely compromise his privacy I'd give you my mother's phone number and you could call her. If she liked you (and there's absolutely no reason to believe that might be the case) she might share that she always questioned her decision not to "red-shirt" him, and felt their decision set him up a bit. Obviously she's proud of him, but that's not the same thing as thinking that she laid out the right path. Here's a sincere offer, though: You're the big talker, maybe you should put up? Post your phone number and I'll give you a call and we can go into more detail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

" Okay, BUT, doesn't this confidence disappear when the child realizes that his parents didn't have the confidence to send him to school when he was age-eligible? Doesn't this result in a feeling that you are not "as smart as" your younger classmates? Or, if you are ahead academically, do you just attribute it to being older and not necessarily smarter?

Couldn't have said it better myself. And while athletics are fun and important, unless you see serious Division 1/Pro level acumen, does it really matter?

We're talking about instilling confidence in a young boy in elementary school and allowing him to be well rounded and explore his interests. I'm not sure how much fun sitting the bench b/c you are a year and a half younger than your classmates would be. Certainly I do not see how this would instill confidence. In a situation where redshirting is common, a child isn't likely to question his academic ability. BTW, I am male, if it matters. My wife showed me this thread and asked me to chime in...

It's not a year and a half. parents are holding back or having some repeat grades for far older than august birthdays. Try sept and october from the prior birth year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

" Okay, BUT, doesn't this confidence disappear when the child realizes that his parents didn't have the confidence to send him to school when he was age-eligible? Doesn't this result in a feeling that you are not "as smart as" your younger classmates? Or, if you are ahead academically, do you just attribute it to being older and not necessarily smarter?

Couldn't have said it better myself. And while athletics are fun and important, unless you see serious Division 1/Pro level acumen, does it really matter?

We're talking about instilling confidence in a young boy in elementary school and allowing him to be well rounded and explore his interests. I'm not sure how much fun sitting the bench b/c you are a year and a half younger than your classmates would be. Certainly I do not see how this would instill confidence. In a situation where redshirting is common, a child isn't likely to question his academic ability. BTW, I am male, if it matters. My wife showed me this thread and asked me to chime in...

It's not a year and a half. parents are holding back or having some repeat grades for far older than august birthdays. Try sept and october from the prior birth year.

So are you suggesting that there are lots of kids turning 7 in the sept/oct of their kindergarten year???? That's not a trend I'm aware of. (note, a redshirted June birthday would turn 6 the June before K... but a redshirted Oct birthday would not have been able to start K normally until they were almost 6... so in your scenario they would be almost turning SEVEN. Really??!!??)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

" Okay, BUT, doesn't this confidence disappear when the child realizes that his parents didn't have the confidence to send him to school when he was age-eligible? Doesn't this result in a feeling that you are not "as smart as" your younger classmates? Or, if you are ahead academically, do you just attribute it to being older and not necessarily smarter?

Couldn't have said it better myself. And while athletics are fun and important, unless you see serious Division 1/Pro level acumen, does it really matter?

We're talking about instilling confidence in a young boy in elementary school and allowing him to be well rounded and explore his interests. I'm not sure how much fun sitting the bench b/c you are a year and a half younger than your classmates would be. Certainly I do not see how this would instill confidence. In a situation where redshirting is common, a child isn't likely to question his academic ability. BTW, I am male, if it matters. My wife showed me this thread and asked me to chime in...

It's not a year and a half. parents are holding back or having some repeat grades for far older than august birthdays. Try sept and october from the prior birth year.

Just for clarification, are you suggesting holding back September/October birthdays from a year BEFORE the Augusts that get held back? I.e., TWO years? (Because September/October from the same year as August would of course, actually be a month or two younger.)

So seriously, you're talking about TWO YEARS younger? Because that doesn't sound like red-shirting, that sounds like failing Kindergarten.