Vent: Not happy with classroom assignment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if the teacher went to a school that does not offer degrees in education, like Princeton?

I am the poster that raised the questions for the OP. It always surprises me that simply because one has matriculated through the US K-12 system, they are an "expert" in education. When looking for a doctor or a lawyer, you would look for someone qualified. Why expect anything less from a teacher?

As an administrator of a school I gladly answered questions about my teachers. I was proud of the teachers I selected and was sure to tell parents how we supported our wonderful new teachers. You can ask questions without being nasty or petty. Qualification questions are valid and any administrator should be happy to share what a teacher contributes to his/her school.

That being said, having a degree from Princeton does not make you a good teacher. Having gone through Teach for American where the majority was Ivy League educated, I was astounded by the lack of cultural responsiveness and reflective practice. Being "smart" does not mean that you understand nor care about your teaching population. It does not make you a teacher who not only imparts knowledge but also inspires children.

Teaching IS A PROFESSION. Let's treat it like one. I am sick of the low expectations and the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach. I am also appalled by the idea that because you are energetic and young, you are good teacher.

[Anonymous]

Thank you! 19:59

[Anonymous]

You are one administrator for whom I would gladly work!

bravo!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if the teacher went to a school that does not offer degrees in education, like Princeton?

I am the poster that raised the questions for the OP. It always surprises me that simply because one has matriculated through the US K-12 system, they are an "expert" in education. When looking for a doctor or a lawyer, you would look for someone qualified. Why expect anything less from a teacher?

As an administrator of a school I gladly answered questions about my teachers. I was proud of the teachers I selected and was sure to tell parents how we supported our wonderful new teachers. You can ask questions without being nasty or petty. Qualification questions are valid and any administrator should be happy to share what a teacher contributes to his/her school.

That being said, having a degree from Princeton does not make you a good teacher. Having gone through Teach for American where the majority was Ivy League educated, I was astounded by the lack of cultural responsiveness and reflective practice. Being "smart" does not mean that you understand nor care about your teaching population. It does not make you a teacher who not only imparts knowledge but also inspires children.

Teaching IS A PROFESSION. Let's treat it like one. I am sick of the low expectations and the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach. I am also appalled by the idea that because you are energetic and young, you are good teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if the teacher went to a school that does not offer degrees in education, like Princeton?

I am the poster that raised the questions for the OP. It always surprises me that simply because one has matriculated through the US K-12 system, they are an "expert" in education. When looking for a doctor or a lawyer, you would look for someone qualified. Why expect anything less from a teacher?

As an administrator of a school I gladly answered questions about my teachers. I was proud of the teachers I selected and was sure to tell parents how we supported our wonderful new teachers. You can ask questions without being nasty or petty. Qualification questions are valid and any administrator should be happy to share what a teacher contributes to his/her school.

That being said, having a degree from Princeton does not make you a good teacher. Having gone through Teach for American where the majority was Ivy League educated, I was astounded by the lack of cultural responsiveness and reflective practice. Being "smart" does not mean that you understand nor care about your teaching population. It does not make you a teacher who not only imparts knowledge but also inspires children.

Teaching IS A PROFESSION. Let's treat it like one. I am sick of the low expectations and the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach. I am also appalled by the idea that because you are energetic and young, you are good teacher.

Your emphasis on certification and going to a school with a strong education program marks you out with your own bias. Our kids (upper school) have humanities and STEM teachers with PhD's and advanced degrees from outstanding institutions -- a lot of these people, though not all, are brilliant (and the kids know it and are engaged by it). Their teaching skills range from solid to life-changing. Generally in independent schools at the Upper School level (and to a lesser extent at the Lower/Middle level), teachers will not have Ed degrees and will not be certified -- it is one of the big differences between public and private schools. So encouraging parents to go in to the head of school and ask if the teachers are certified or have Education degrees is encouraging them to ask a question that sounds like they've got an agenda (teachers should be certified). Not every teacher in independent school is good, and I've seen our school go to more rigorous hiring practices (teaching a full class if not a day of classes) that seems to be bearing fruit in helping weed out those who are not strong. The schools are also doing more internal training and sharing of best practices. But just as you reject "the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach," I reject the notion that certification/participation in an education program is the only way to produce good teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if the teacher went to a school that does not offer degrees in education, like Princeton?

I am the poster that raised the questions for the OP. It always surprises me that simply because one has matriculated through the US K-12 system, they are an "expert" in education. When looking for a doctor or a lawyer, you would look for someone qualified. Why expect anything less from a teacher?

As an administrator of a school I gladly answered questions about my teachers. I was proud of the teachers I selected and was sure to tell parents how we supported our wonderful new teachers. You can ask questions without being nasty or petty. Qualification questions are valid and any administrator should be happy to share what a teacher contributes to his/her school.

That being said, having a degree from Princeton does not make you a good teacher. Having gone through Teach for American where the majority was Ivy League educated, I was astounded by the lack of cultural responsiveness and reflective practice. Being "smart" does not mean that you understand nor care about your teaching population. It does not make you a teacher who not only imparts knowledge but also inspires children.

Teaching IS A PROFESSION. Let's treat it like one. I am sick of the low expectations and the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach. I am also appalled by the idea that because you are energetic and young, you are good teacher.

Your emphasis on certification and going to a school with a strong education program marks you out with your own bias. Our kids (upper school) have humanities and STEM teachers with PhD's and advanced degrees from outstanding institutions -- a lot of these people, though not all, are brilliant (and the kids know it and are engaged by it). Their teaching skills range from solid to life-changing. Generally in independent schools at the Upper School level (and to a lesser extent at the Lower/Middle level), teachers will not have Ed degrees and will not be certified -- it is one of the big differences between public and private schools. So encouraging parents to go in to the head of school and ask if the teachers are certified or have Education degrees is encouraging them to ask a question that sounds like they've got an agenda (teachers should be certified). Not every teacher in independent school is good, and I've seen our school go to more rigorous hiring practices (teaching a full class if not a day of classes) that seems to be bearing fruit in helping weed out those who are not strong. The schools are also doing more internal training and sharing of best practices. But just as you reject "the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach," I reject the notion that certification/participation in an education program is the only way to produce good teachers.

I agree with you; specialized schools may require a different kind of training. When I was writing, I was responding to the original poster who seemed to be referring to elementary since her child was looping with the same teacher. That being said, the bigger idea here is that there should be standards in education. Those standards should be explicit so all stakeholders are on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think OP was freaking out at all, simply raising a legitimate concern and seeking advice on how to handle it.

On the contrary, her concerns are irrational and not valid at all. The best way to handle it is to smile and drop LO off at school on the first day.

I absolutely disagree. I have been in education on every level for the last 25 years and believe that the OP has valid concerns. This is not a public school where you get what you get (TFA). If the OP is paying a lot of money, she should be concerned about the quality of education. OP: I would ask the following questions since this is a private school (where teachers are paid considerably less) and since you do not necessarily have to be certified to teach:

Is the teacher certified?

What was the teacher's major?

Did the teacher graduate from a school with a strong education program?

What strengths does the teacher bring to the school?


I did go to only private schools in the DC area and had my share of newly minted teachers. By far the more experienced teachers performed better than others. Don't confuse an experienced teacher with a burnt out teacher. It has taken me years to understand reflective practice not to mention organization strategies and positive classroom management w/o those silly reward incentives. OP advocate for your child!

Typing fast please excuse the typos!

And if I were the headmaster and you, as the parent of a K new to the school, came and asked me these questions, I would make sure that teacher got all the support she needed.....in dealing WITH YOU! You are essentially questioning the headmaster as to why he/she hired a teacher and I would think that it will only get worse. Oh, and I would politely answer that "I feel, as the one who hired her, that this teacher is more than qualified to teach your K student and that once you get to know her, hopefully you will feel the same way."

You are telling OP to "adovcate" for her child on the premature assumption that the teacher will not be a good teacher and w/o evidence of such.

Actually, these are legit questions and once I asked myself of some of the teachers my child has had. Teachers do not need to be licensend/certified to teach in private school and some may not even have a degree in education. My child attends a private school in the area and several of the teachers who have been there for years are not in fact licensed teachers - in any state - and have degrees in various subjects.

PP here. They are legit questions only if the parent intends to act on the information. Would the OP be willing to give up her spot if the answers are unsatisfactory to her? Did the OP research the school's teaching and training philsophies before applying or was she caught up in the private school prestige?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:... But just as you reject "the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach," I reject the notion that certification/participation in an education program is the only way to produce good teachers.

NP here. I totally agree with this point.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you; specialized schools may require a different kind of training. .... That being said, the bigger idea here is that there should be standards in education. Those standards should be explicit so all stakeholders are on the same page.

I don't think anyone would disagree there should be general "standards" ... meaning that teachers should be effective at teaching. But the devil is in the detail: What specific characteristics identify effective teachers? And what "standards" should society ensure teachers embody those specific characteristics?

It's a bit of a rhetorical question, because I don't think any one true answer exists. It's also a question our society is struggling with in various contexts. The current debate over "high stakes testing" and using objective metrics to measure teacher performance is one good example. All would agree our society needs to encourage effective teachers, and demand improvement from ineffective ones. The very hard question is how to accurately differentiate between the two groups.

[Anonymous]

9:10 again. I apologize if my previous comment takes us (further) off topic.

To answer OP's question: I don't think you should rock the boat. By joining the school and paying the tuition, what you're buying is the school's approach, competence, commitment, and community. You're not buying the right to manage the classroom or the school. If it's a quality school, then the school has already determined the new teacher is effective. This is especially true in the situation you describe, where there are only two classrooms. If everyone gets to choose which they want, the school will lose the power to balance between the two.

[Anonymous]

07/20/2012 09:21 Subject: Vent: Not happy with classroom assignment
Anonymous



9:10 again. I apologize if my previous comment takes us (further) off topic.

To answer OP's question: I don't think you should rock the boat. By joining the school and paying the tuition, what you're buying is the school's approach, competence, commitment, and community. You're not buying the right to manage the classroom or the school. If it's a quality school, then the school has already determined the new teacher is effective. This is especially true in the situation you describe, where there are only two classrooms. If everyone gets to choose which they want, the school will lose the power to balance between the two.

Your statement is only true to a point. We joined a school and pay the tuition and but that doesn't mean that I have to blindly accept everything that the school does. It is not a cult with the headmaster being the cult leader. Hopefully, all parents will continue to think, observe and make determinations about what they think is best for their child and for the school community as a whole. That doesn't mean a parent always gets what he/she wants, but to blindly follow the schools "approach, competence, commitment, and community" without independent thought, assessment and judgement is misguided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

07/20/2012 09:21 Subject: Vent: Not happy with classroom assignment
Anonymous



9:10 again. I apologize if my previous comment takes us (further) off topic.

To answer OP's question: I don't think you should rock the boat. By joining the school and paying the tuition, what you're buying is the school's approach, competence, commitment, and community. You're not buying the right to manage the classroom or the school. If it's a quality school, then the school has already determined the new teacher is effective. This is especially true in the situation you describe, where there are only two classrooms. If everyone gets to choose which they want, the school will lose the power to balance between the two.

Your statement is only true to a point. We joined a school and pay the tuition and but that doesn't mean that I have to blindly accept everything that the school does. It is not a cult with the headmaster being the cult leader. Hopefully, all parents will continue to think, observe and make determinations about what they think is best for their child and for the school community as a whole. That doesn't mean a parent always gets what he/she wants, but to blindly follow the schools "approach, competence, commitment, and community" without independent thought, assessment and judgement is misguided.

Amen! The best schools become the best schools when everyone is working together to meet the common goal/vision. I am sure our best schools' administrations were held accountable for their decisions. Be active!!!! Advocate for your child and school community!!! Advocation does not equal hostility!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

To answer OP's question: I don't think you should rock the boat. By joining the school and paying the tuition, what you're buying is the school's approach, competence, commitment, and community. You're not buying the right to manage the classroom or the school. If it's a quality school, then the school has already determined the new teacher is effective. This is especially true in the situation you describe, where there are only two classrooms. If everyone gets to choose which they want, the school will lose the power to balance between the two.

Your statement is only true to a point. We joined a school and pay the tuition and but that doesn't mean that I have to blindly accept everything that the school does. It is not a cult with the headmaster being the cult leader. Hopefully, all parents will continue to think, observe and make determinations about what they think is best for their child and for the school community as a whole. That doesn't mean a parent always gets what he/she wants, but to blindly follow the schools "approach, competence, commitment, and community" without independent thought, assessment and judgement is misguided.

I'm not saying you have to jump off a bridge if the headmaster tells you. Of course you're still an independent person.

But by the same token, surely you recognize that you don't get to micromanage how the school is run. What you've bought is the right to send your child to that school, and that means the school will determine how day-to-day operations will occur, not you. Most schools will encourage feedback and input from the parents, but ultimately, it's the school that makes the decisions.

It's sort of like buying some stock in Walmart. You certainly retain the right to buy whatever you want in your personal life, and also to dispose of Walmart's stock if you're unhappy. But your stock ownership doesn't suddenly give you the right to tell your local Walmart what to put on its shelves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if the teacher went to a school that does not offer degrees in education, like Princeton?

I am the poster that raised the questions for the OP. It always surprises me that simply because one has matriculated through the US K-12 system, they are an "expert" in education. When looking for a doctor or a lawyer, you would look for someone qualified. Why expect anything less from a teacher?

As an administrator of a school I gladly answered questions about my teachers. I was proud of the teachers I selected and was sure to tell parents how we supported our wonderful new teachers. You can ask questions without being nasty or petty. Qualification questions are valid and any administrator should be happy to share what a teacher contributes to his/her school.

That being said, having a degree from Princeton does not make you a good teacher. Having gone through Teach for American where the majority was Ivy League educated, I was astounded by the lack of cultural responsiveness and reflective practice. Being "smart" does not mean that you understand nor care about your teaching population. It does not make you a teacher who not only imparts knowledge but also inspires children.

Teaching IS A PROFESSION. Let's treat it like one. I am sick of the low expectations and the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach. I am also appalled by the idea that because you are energetic and young, you are good teacher.

Your emphasis on certification and going to a school with a strong education program marks you out with your own bias. Our kids (upper school) have humanities and STEM teachers with PhD's and advanced degrees from outstanding institutions -- a lot of these people, though not all, are brilliant (and the kids know it and are engaged by it). Their teaching skills range from solid to life-changing. Generally in independent schools at the Upper School level (and to a lesser extent at the Lower/Middle level), teachers will not have Ed degrees and will not be certified -- it is one of the big differences between public and private schools. So encouraging parents to go in to the head of school and ask if the teachers are certified or have Education degrees is encouraging them to ask a question that sounds like they've got an agenda (teachers should be certified). Not every teacher in independent school is good, and I've seen our school go to more rigorous hiring practices (teaching a full class if not a day of classes) that seems to be bearing fruit in helping weed out those who are not strong. The schools are also doing more internal training and sharing of best practices. But just as you reject "the notion that anyone can walk off the street and teach," I reject the notion that certification/participation in an education program is the only way to produce good teachers.

I agree with you regarding upper school teachers. However, a 2nd grade teacher needs an understanding of early childhood pedagogy. A person with a PhD in literature may be a brilliant and inspiring teacher for an upper school English course, but would have no idea how to teach a 6 year-old how to read. Most top-notch independent schools hire lower school teachers who have Master's degrees in early childhood education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

07/20/2012 09:21 Subject: Vent: Not happy with classroom assignment
Anonymous



9:10 again. I apologize if my previous comment takes us (further) off topic.

To answer OP's question: I don't think you should rock the boat. By joining the school and paying the tuition, what you're buying is the school's approach, competence, commitment, and community. You're not buying the right to manage the classroom or the school. If it's a quality school, then the school has already determined the new teacher is effective. This is especially true in the situation you describe, where there are only two classrooms. If everyone gets to choose which they want, the school will lose the power to balance between the two.

Your statement is only true to a point. We joined a school and pay the tuition and but that doesn't mean that I have to blindly accept everything that the school does. It is not a cult with the headmaster being the cult leader. Hopefully, all parents will continue to think, observe and make determinations about what they think is best for their child and for the school community as a whole. That doesn't mean a parent always gets what he/she wants, but to blindly follow the schools "approach, competence, commitment, and community" without independent thought, assessment and judgement is misguided.

Amen! The best schools become the best schools when everyone is working together to meet the common goal/vision. I am sure our best schools' administrations were held accountable for their decisions. Be active!!!! Advocate for your child and school community!!! Advocation does not equal hostility!

Yes, it is fine to advocate for your child. But virtually every independent school has a "we don't accept teacher request" policies, so if your child lands in the class of the new teacher (who is already hired and will teach this year) that is the end of the story. If a parent complains about initial placement, they really will just mark themselves as someone without a good sense of boundaries. If, after a reasonable time period, there are problems with that teacher's approach, it is not unreasonable to give feedback to the school and seek changes/improvements. Like everything in life, it's about picking your spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

07/20/2012 09:21 Subject: Vent: Not happy with classroom assignment
Anonymous



9:10 again. I apologize if my previous comment takes us (further) off topic.

To answer OP's question: I don't think you should rock the boat. By joining the school and paying the tuition, what you're buying is the school's approach, competence, commitment, and community. You're not buying the right to manage the classroom or the school. If it's a quality school, then the school has already determined the new teacher is effective. This is especially true in the situation you describe, where there are only two classrooms. If everyone gets to choose which they want, the school will lose the power to balance between the two.

Your statement is only true to a point. We joined a school and pay the tuition and but that doesn't mean that I have to blindly accept everything that the school does. It is not a cult with the headmaster being the cult leader. Hopefully, all parents will continue to think, observe and make determinations about what they think is best for their child and for the school community as a whole. That doesn't mean a parent always gets what he/she wants, but to blindly follow the schools "approach, competence, commitment, and community" without independent thought, assessment and judgement is misguided.

Amen! The best schools become the best schools when everyone is working together to meet the common goal/vision. I am sure our best schools' administrations were held accountable for their decisions. Be active!!!! Advocate for your child and school community!!! Advocation does not equal hostility!

Yes, it is fine to advocate for your child. But virtually every independent school has a "we don't accept teacher request" policies, so if your child lands in the class of the new teacher (who is already hired and will teach this year) that is the end of the story. If a parent complains about initial placement, they really will just mark themselves as someone without a good sense of boundaries. If, after a reasonable time period, there are problems with that teacher's approach, it is not unreasonable to give feedback to the school and seek changes/improvements. Like everything in life, it's about picking your spots.

They have that as a stated policy but I, like other parents, have found out that they often do not stick to it.

[Anonymous]

You have to give this person a chance and stop thinking so negatively about someone you don't know. The new teachers come with the freshest ideas, most up to date pedagogical theories and perspectives, and with the most enthusiasm! Sometimes the teachers who have been around the block lack all of these (and sometimes not). Some questions you may ask the school: 1) how will you be supporting this new teacher?, 2) what do you (the administration) feel most confident about in his/her abilities?, 3) how will the administration be tracking his/her progress to make sure he/she is staying on track?