Dartmouth finally publishes their SAT data in the Common Data Set after dropping TO; white enrollment surges

[Anonymous]

So SAT's are reverting back to the mean. Not surprising.

We vastly overestimate the number of the top 1% of SAT scorers, especially as you go above 1550.

Superscoring become logarithmically more difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So SAT's are reverting back to the mean. Not surprising.

We vastly overestimate the number of the top 1% of SAT scorers, especially as you go above 1550.

Superscoring become logarithmically more difficult.

Correct interpretaion. There just aren't that many 1560+ to go around.
A high score 1580+ is an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My legacy DC, top 10% at rigorous private, national level ECs, 36 ACT with all sections being 36, very authentic and personal essays, was flat out rejected in ED. We donate annually too. Not anymore.

That stings, sorry to hear that.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if prospective parents heard about this student's alcohol-related death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Won_Jang

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth has always leaned conservative, white frat type. Partly due to location.

I think this is correct. I also think less Asians apply to Dartmouth - but not that much less that the percentage would go down. There is still bias (conscious or not) for white applicants (and against Asian applicants). Dartmouth probably doesn't want the Asian population to grow exponentially as it did on other campuses. There are definitely markers on the application that point to the applicant's race and background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I wonder if prospective parents heard about this student's alcohol-related death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Won_Jang

This is so tragic and horrifying and sad that no one noticed he was missing until the next day. There was also another Asian student who drowned in the same river a few months before this death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth has always leaned conservative, white frat type. Partly due to location.

I think this is correct. I also think less Asians apply to Dartmouth - but not that much less that the percentage would go down. There is still bias (conscious or not) for white applicants (and against Asian applicants). Dartmouth probably doesn't want the Asian population to grow exponentially as it did on other campuses. There are definitely markers on the application that point to the applicant's race and background.

Dartmouth doesn't have engineering, which limits its appeal for many students, including many Asians. You generally don't see many Asians interested in SLACs in the middle of nowhere, which is essentially what Dartmouth is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth has always leaned conservative, white frat type. Partly due to location.

I think this is correct. I also think less Asians apply to Dartmouth - but not that much less that the percentage would go down. There is still bias (conscious or not) for white applicants (and against Asian applicants). Dartmouth probably doesn't want the Asian population to grow exponentially as it did on other campuses. There are definitely markers on the application that point to the applicant's race and background.

Dartmouth doesn't have engineering, which limits its appeal for many students, including many Asians. You generally don't see many Asians interested in SLACs in the middle of nowhere, which is essentially what Dartmouth is.

False.

Saying Dartmouth does not have engineering is like saying Brown does not have engineering. The two schools are similar in that respect, yet Brown is now close to 40% Asian.

Dartmouth should still be attractive to many Asian applicants, especially premed students, and also students interested in economics, government, and the humanities. Georgetown does not have engineering at all, and it is close to 30% Asian.

As a PP pointed out, some SLACs have a higher percentage of Asian students than Dartmouth. Carleton and Wellesley are good examples.

So I do not buy the “no engineering” explanation. The numbers look much more like the result of active discrimination, and the surge in white enrollment only reinforces that impression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strivers: are Asian applicants now hooked at Dartmouth?

Affirmative Action ban and test required did not help Asian at all.

Funny because it all started after an Asian kid was shut out and claimed discrimination. That didn’t go as he planned!

(I’m Asian btw )

or because dartmouth is discriminating against asians using legacy admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the other end of the spectrum, Hopkins saw 50% of their class of 2029 made up of Asian Americans. What gives?

At a guess, high-scoring white kids tend to pick Dartmouth over Hopkins, while high-scoring Asian kids tend to pick Hopkins over Dartmouth.

Also, Dartmouth really focuses on taking kids from the top 10% of their high school class. That might hurt Asian kids, because they tend to be clustered in a small number of high-performing high schools.

Hopkins is famous in taking top 10% of the class. This doesn’t make any sense!

If anything, Hopkins takes a higher percentage of the class that is Top 10% than Dartmouth.

Dp but the obvious difference is that Hopkins and Dartmouth are nothing alike. Dartmouth is essentially a liberal arts college from the 80s. It has heavy Greek life presence (not in a bad way), and its biggest fields include government economics and the like. It has an engineering school, but you usually aren’t going because it’s THE school for engineering. It’s an amazing school (obvious statement), but it doesn’t have the premed/STEM heaviness and anti social personality of JHU that attracts Asian students.

Anti-social personality? Give me a break.
Overall, Hopkins is much stronger than Dartmouth, and not just in STEM. I would give Hopkins the edge in the humanities and social sciences too.

You’d pretty much be wrong in any subject that isn’t IR.

[Anonymous]

Something racist is going on. Where are the Asian students?

[Anonymous]

I have a Dartmouth freshman. Disclaimer: they're our oldest child so I don't have experience with another current day college and I didn't attend an Ivy or similar school myself.

Admission trends there are hard to pin down. Since our kid enrolled we've heard from half dozen legacy families in our larger circle of friends/coworkers/etc whose kids were rejected for the classes of 2029 and 2030. The perhaps most noteworthy is a friend's child whose parents both attended (and met there), are reasonably active alums, sibling attends, had great grades/scores/etc and yet was ultimately rejected. Got into Hopkins, Duke and Princeton (!) unhooked and attends one of these. This stands out as the most wild of the legacy rejections I personally now know but I could share almost a half dozen more that are almost as noteworthy.

The student body is a real mixed group. You have the children of actual billionaires (at maybe the highest concentration anywhere) and many of multi millionaires. They tend to have graduated at or near the very top of prep or boarding school classes. Bright and well trained. Many of this group are Dartmouth legacies.

Then you have the upper middle or professional class kids who are very smart and typical of what one thinks of as high achieving, Ivy level kids. Decent number of Asians in this group. My own child is in here.

Then you have a lot of kids who frankly aren't very remarkable. Most bring rural/geographic diversity and economic diversity. Many struggle. Since we're talking SAT scores, this group often had SAT scores in the 1400s, even 1300s (my kids knows or knew because apparently at some point in early freshman year this comes out in chatter). Dartmouth currently seems to love admitting this demographic (there are many of them) and views admitting them as being a large part of their current mission. I don't know if this is similar at other Ivies or other top 20s as I don't have another kid in college.

Which brings up the question of what the point of an Ivy is. Is it to educate the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity? Or is it to give a top opportunity to kids who will benefit most from it? Dartmouth appears to believe very strongly in the second. However, it's meant that kids like mine (a pretty typical DMV high-achiever) are skating through college and not really being challenged. To be frank, my child has a 4.0 and hasn't worked very hard. They will tell you that their high school cohort was by-in-large brighter than many classmates at college. In this regard it's been disappointing. I'm not sure what the rest of the years will hold. I'd be interested in hearing what other Dartmouth parents think.

[Anonymous]

Um, Dartmouth DOES have engineering. The Thayer School of Engineering. No idea how this impacts this ridiculous claims re Asians but at least get your facts straight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a Dartmouth freshman. Disclaimer: they're our oldest child so I don't have experience with another current day college and I didn't attend an Ivy or similar school myself.

Admission trends there are hard to pin down. Since our kid enrolled we've heard from half dozen legacy families in our larger circle of friends/coworkers/etc whose kids were rejected for the classes of 2029 and 2030. The perhaps most noteworthy is a friend's child whose parents both attended (and met there), are reasonably active alums, sibling attends, had great grades/scores/etc and yet was ultimately rejected. Got into Hopkins, Duke and Princeton (!) unhooked and attends one of these. This stands out as the most wild of the legacy rejections I personally now know but I could share almost a half dozen more that are almost as noteworthy.

The student body is a real mixed group. You have the children of actual billionaires (at maybe the highest concentration anywhere) and many of multi millionaires. They tend to have graduated at or near the very top of prep or boarding school classes. Bright and well trained. Many of this group are Dartmouth legacies.

Then you have the upper middle or professional class kids who are very smart and typical of what one thinks of as high achieving, Ivy level kids. Decent number of Asians in this group. My own child is in here.

Then you have a lot of kids who frankly aren't very remarkable. Most bring rural/geographic diversity and economic diversity. Many struggle. Since we're talking SAT scores, this group often had SAT scores in the 1400s, even 1300s (my kids knows or knew because apparently at some point in early freshman year this comes out in chatter). Dartmouth currently seems to love admitting this demographic (there are many of them) and views admitting them as being a large part of their current mission. I don't know if this is similar at other Ivies or other top 20s as I don't have another kid in college.

Which brings up the question of what the point of an Ivy is. Is it to educate the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity? Or is it to give a top opportunity to kids who will benefit most from it? Dartmouth appears to believe very strongly in the second. However, it's meant that kids like mine (a pretty typical DMV high-achiever) are skating through college and not really being challenged. To be frank, my child has a 4.0 and hasn't worked very hard. They will tell you that their high school cohort was by-in-large brighter than many classmates at college. In this regard it's been disappointing. I'm not sure what the rest of the years will hold. I'd be interested in hearing what other Dartmouth parents think.

Doubtful. Dartmouth has graduated very few alumni who have gone on to become billionaires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a Dartmouth freshman. Disclaimer: they're our oldest child so I don't have experience with another current day college and I didn't attend an Ivy or similar school myself.

Admission trends there are hard to pin down. Since our kid enrolled we've heard from half dozen legacy families in our larger circle of friends/coworkers/etc whose kids were rejected for the classes of 2029 and 2030. The perhaps most noteworthy is a friend's child whose parents both attended (and met there), are reasonably active alums, sibling attends, had great grades/scores/etc and yet was ultimately rejected. Got into Hopkins, Duke and Princeton (!) unhooked and attends one of these. This stands out as the most wild of the legacy rejections I personally now know but I could share almost a half dozen more that are almost as noteworthy.

The student body is a real mixed group. You have the children of actual billionaires (at maybe the highest concentration anywhere) and many of multi millionaires. They tend to have graduated at or near the very top of prep or boarding school classes. Bright and well trained. Many of this group are Dartmouth legacies.

Then you have the upper middle or professional class kids who are very smart and typical of what one thinks of as high achieving, Ivy level kids. Decent number of Asians in this group. My own child is in here.

Then you have a lot of kids who frankly aren't very remarkable. Most bring rural/geographic diversity and economic diversity. Many struggle. Since we're talking SAT scores, this group often had SAT scores in the 1400s, even 1300s (my kids knows or knew because apparently at some point in early freshman year this comes out in chatter). Dartmouth currently seems to love admitting this demographic (there are many of them) and views admitting them as being a large part of their current mission. I don't know if this is similar at other Ivies or other top 20s as I don't have another kid in college.

Which brings up the question of what the point of an Ivy is. Is it to educate the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity? Or is it to give a top opportunity to kids who will benefit most from it? Dartmouth appears to believe very strongly in the second. However, it's meant that kids like mine (a pretty typical DMV high-achiever) are skating through college and not really being challenged. To be frank, my child has a 4.0 and hasn't worked very hard. They will tell you that their high school cohort was by-in-large brighter than many classmates at college. In this regard it's been disappointing. I'm not sure what the rest of the years will hold. I'd be interested in hearing what other Dartmouth parents think.

So, your analysis is that only rich people and their children are intelligent (please don't start screaming about unfair characterizations, wealthy and upper middle class professional people's children are the only one receiving your praise in your words), and you believe that a large population of students are economic diversity or rural diversity. For starters, in a given class, maybe 10-15 students from underrepresented states make up that diversity. Second, being poor doesn't mean you received a poor education-many low income students attended top boarding schools, magnet programs or had academic opportunities through other means. Lastly, it sounds like Dartmouth is "educat[ing] the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity," just not falling into the trap that only the wealthy aristocracy deserve a seat. Education has been democratized. Live with it.