MCPS gave County list of snow issues on Sunday at 2:13 pm. Under 2 hours later MCPS blamed County for Monday closure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess this is devil's advocate, but why is it MCPS's job to tell the county where to clear the roads properly? The job being done properly should be the default and the fact that it had been a week since the storm and the county hadn't already figured that out in response to all the complaints and 311 calls they were getting, or by simply driving around and seeing what a mess things are, is ridiculous and not on MCPS.

MCPS probably kept waiting for the county to do the job taxpayers pay for of its own initiative, because that's how government services are supposed to work. Not only bothering to get around to it because the school system nagged them. "How could we be expected to know we did a bad job until MCPS told us at 2:13 on a Sunday?" What an absurd excuse. Why don't you supervise your own clearing efforts and monitor progress through some kind of organized system like an actual competent department?

The plowing job on surface streets has been completely subpar and an embarrassment.

[phone]

County is not responsible for school bus stops

If the bus stop is located at a homeowners lot, the homeowner is responsible for that bus stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess this is devil's advocate, but why is it MCPS's job to tell the county where to clear the roads properly? The job being done properly should be the default and the fact that it had been a week since the storm and the county hadn't already figured that out in response to all the complaints and 311 calls they were getting, or by simply driving around and seeing what a mess things are, is ridiculous and not on MCPS.

MCPS probably kept waiting for the county to do the job taxpayers pay for of its own initiative, because that's how government services are supposed to work. Not only bothering to get around to it because the school system nagged them. "How could we be expected to know we did a bad job until MCPS told us at 2:13 on a Sunday?" What an absurd excuse. Why don't you supervise your own clearing efforts and monitor progress through some kind of organized system like an actual competent department?

The plowing job on surface streets has been completely subpar and an embarrassment.

[phone]

County is not responsible for school bus stops

The bus stops aren't the only problem. Some roads are not passable for buses due to the way they've been plowed and maneuverability issues. The buses couldn't even get to the stop. That is the fault of county plowing. And if a bus can't get down there, a fire truck probably couldn't either. Again, not on MCPS.

I completely agree that the county could have done better. However, the County prioritizes snow emergency routes for emergency vehicles. MCPS should coordinate with the County regarding its school bus routes. MCPS sending the County a list of issues on Sunday afternoon and not 2 hours later bashing the County publicly is incredibly disingenuous. They didn't care about opening, they cared about blaming someone in order to stay closed. If they really wanted to open they would have been communicating with the county much earlier.

Snow emergency routes were cleared throughout the storm, many by the state, and by several days out, they were more than fine. Neighborhood roads should not have been impassable to larger vehicles 7 days out and it should not be MCPS responsibility to tell the county that their clearing of neighborhood streets was inadequate. It seems like the county literally made one half-a$$ed pass on some streets and then never went back.

I mean this just tells me that MCPS didn't even consider the possibility of opening on Friday. It was not even something that they fathomed. They decided to close every day last week without even looking at the conditions? I mean come on. You seem to think they are responsible for nothing and that it doesn't look idiotic to send a list of to-dos to the County based on the school system's needs 6 days after the snow has ended.

[Anonymous]

Now try to imagine if electricity was out for several days too. Essential services are too vulnerable and freak storms will only increase. Nobody anticipate such ice, but also nobody tried to manage the aftermath. 8 days after, roads are crazy. Is anyone planning for the future storms? Because, next time, MCPS will be closed 2 weeks, or 3. What if supermarkets close for 5 straight days too? And MoCo is one of the richest counties in the country. There are huge lessons to be learnt here if we want to keep civilized order when bigger crises come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now try to imagine if electricity was out for several days too. Essential services are too vulnerable and freak storms will only increase. Nobody anticipate such ice, but also nobody tried to manage the aftermath. 8 days after, roads are crazy. Is anyone planning for the future storms? Because, next time, MCPS will be closed 2 weeks, or 3. What if supermarkets close for 5 straight days too? And MoCo is one of the richest counties in the country. There are huge lessons to be learnt here if we want to keep civilized order when bigger crises come.

Yes, I think the important thing is to look at what happened and identify lessons learned for the future. In the past I think we have always counted on the snow melting at some point. It's never been this cold for so long after a storm and it was a lot of precipitation. So yeah, MCDOT should think about planning for what they should do better when the snow doesn't melt.

But the message MCPS sent on Sunday publicly was inappropriate. If they had made those requests earlier and MCDOT was not responsive yeah I get they'd be peeved. But it just looks bad for them to point fingers without even trying to solve the issue first. It's trashy behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now try to imagine if electricity was out for several days too. Essential services are too vulnerable and freak storms will only increase. Nobody anticipate such ice, but also nobody tried to manage the aftermath. 8 days after, roads are crazy. Is anyone planning for the future storms? Because, next time, MCPS will be closed 2 weeks, or 3. What if supermarkets close for 5 straight days too? And MoCo is one of the richest counties in the country. There are huge lessons to be learnt here if we want to keep civilized order when bigger crises come.

We've had this happen.. 5+ days without heat/electricity. It sucked.

[Anonymous]

Back in 1989 or was it 1990, this area had a nasty storm. Fewer people lived in the greater region less traffic. It was a mess cleaning out then too. But this storm was especially bad. If you didn't have metal garden tools, it was difficult to hack at the ice. The county should coordinate to clear all the sidewalks, not the homeowners. The same goes for roads including any bus stops - school or county stops. People pay taxes for something, don't they?

[Anonymous]

Deja vu pandemic all over again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back in 1989 or was it 1990, this area had a nasty storm. Fewer people lived in the greater region less traffic. It was a mess cleaning out then too. But this storm was especially bad. If you didn't have metal garden tools, it was difficult to hack at the ice. The county should coordinate to clear all the sidewalks, not the homeowners. The same goes for roads including any bus stops - school or county stops. People pay taxes for something, don't they?

You can look at the budget to see what our taxes pay for. Right now, our taxes do not cover shoveling all the sidewalks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess this is devil's advocate, but why is it MCPS's job to tell the county where to clear the roads properly? The job being done properly should be the default and the fact that it had been a week since the storm and the county hadn't already figured that out in response to all the complaints and 311 calls they were getting, or by simply driving around and seeing what a mess things are, is ridiculous and not on MCPS.

MCPS probably kept waiting for the county to do the job taxpayers pay for of its own initiative, because that's how government services are supposed to work. Not only bothering to get around to it because the school system nagged them. "How could we be expected to know we did a bad job until MCPS told us at 2:13 on a Sunday?" What an absurd excuse. Why don't you supervise your own clearing efforts and monitor progress through some kind of organized system like an actual competent department?

The plowing job on surface streets has been completely subpar and an embarrassment.

[phone]

County is not responsible for school bus stops

If the bus stop is located at a homeowners lot, the homeowner is responsible for that bus stop.

Close, but not complete. MCPS is responsible for ensuring that the buses stop at safe locations. If a location isn’t safe because a property owner failed to clear the sidewalk or because the county or city failed to clear the road, the school system must make adjustments, once aware. Adjustments include relocating the bus stop or closing schools even.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The responsibility for plowing school bus stops is generally divided between the county (for the roads) and adjacent property owners or the school system (on-property areas), and varies by specific location.

• County/State Highway Departments: These agencies are typically responsible for clearing public roads. Many counties prioritize snow removal on primary roads and designated school bus routes to ensure buses can travel safely.

• Property Owners: The clearing of sidewalks, including those leading to and from bus stops, is often the legal responsibility of the adjacent homeowner or business owner. Residents are frequently required to clear sidewalks within a certain number of hours after a storm ends.

• School Systems: School districts are usually responsible for snow removal on school property, including parking lots, bus loops, and sidewalks within school grounds.

Who clears the sidewalks that are by the main roads not near anyone's property? That has to be the county and the county did not do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The responsibility for plowing school bus stops is generally divided between the county (for the roads) and adjacent property owners or the school system (on-property areas), and varies by specific location.

• County/State Highway Departments: These agencies are typically responsible for clearing public roads. Many counties prioritize snow removal on primary roads and designated school bus routes to ensure buses can travel safely.

• Property Owners: The clearing of sidewalks, including those leading to and from bus stops, is often the legal responsibility of the adjacent homeowner or business owner. Residents are frequently required to clear sidewalks within a certain number of hours after a storm ends.

• School Systems: School districts are usually responsible for snow removal on school property, including parking lots, bus loops, and sidewalks within school grounds.

Who clears the sidewalks that are by the main roads not near anyone's property? That has to be the county and the county did not do that.

Yes, or an HOA. The state clears them along state route

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now try to imagine if electricity was out for several days too. Essential services are too vulnerable and freak storms will only increase. Nobody anticipate such ice, but also nobody tried to manage the aftermath. 8 days after, roads are crazy. Is anyone planning for the future storms? Because, next time, MCPS will be closed 2 weeks, or 3. What if supermarkets close for 5 straight days too? And MoCo is one of the richest counties in the country. There are huge lessons to be learnt here if we want to keep civilized order when bigger crises come.

Yes, I think the important thing is to look at what happened and identify lessons learned for the future. In the past I think we have always counted on the snow melting at some point. It's never been this cold for so long after a storm and it was a lot of precipitation. So yeah, MCDOT should think about planning for what they should do better when the snow doesn't melt.

But the message MCPS sent on Sunday publicly was inappropriate. If they had made those requests earlier and MCDOT was not responsive yeah I get they'd be peeved. But it just looks bad for them to point fingers without even trying to solve the issue first. It's trashy behavior.

Trashy or not, MCDOT deserves it. WTH are we all paying taxes for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess this is devil's advocate, but why is it MCPS's job to tell the county where to clear the roads properly? The job being done properly should be the default and the fact that it had been a week since the storm and the county hadn't already figured that out in response to all the complaints and 311 calls they were getting, or by simply driving around and seeing what a mess things are, is ridiculous and not on MCPS.

MCPS probably kept waiting for the county to do the job taxpayers pay for of its own initiative, because that's how government services are supposed to work. Not only bothering to get around to it because the school system nagged them. "How could we be expected to know we did a bad job until MCPS told us at 2:13 on a Sunday?" What an absurd excuse. Why don't you supervise your own clearing efforts and monitor progress through some kind of organized system like an actual competent department?

The plowing job on surface streets has been completely subpar and an embarrassment.

[phone]

County is not responsible for school bus stops

The bus stops aren't the only problem. Some roads are not passable for buses due to the way they've been plowed and maneuverability issues. The buses couldn't even get to the stop. That is the fault of county plowing. And if a bus can't get down there, a fire truck probably couldn't either. Again, not on MCPS.

I completely agree that the county could have done better. However, the County prioritizes snow emergency routes for emergency vehicles. MCPS should coordinate with the County regarding its school bus routes. MCPS sending the County a list of issues on Sunday afternoon and not 2 hours later bashing the County publicly is incredibly disingenuous. They didn't care about opening, they cared about blaming someone in order to stay closed. If they really wanted to open they would have been communicating with the county much earlier.

Exactly. There's a need to prioritize snow removal resources. Things aren't going to be perfect. The objective is to clear roads enough for emergency services as broadly as possible and as quickly as possible. That can mean only clearing one lane on a multi-lane roadway. That is generally going to be good enough for most purposes, albeit road capacity may be lower, and people may need to drive more slowly. Improving capacity and convenience from there is going to take more time. And often will be resource-intensive, we're seeing places where they need to use loaders and trucks to move the snow (rather than just pushing it out of the way).

We shouldn't need to wait until everything is perfectly clear to reopen schools. If MCPS has specific requirements (e.g., for buses) that extend beyond what would otherwise be part of that minimum tier of plowing, then they're obligated to communicate them to the county and coordinate with them to open schools.

MCPS failed here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess this is devil's advocate, but why is it MCPS's job to tell the county where to clear the roads properly? The job being done properly should be the default and the fact that it had been a week since the storm and the county hadn't already figured that out in response to all the complaints and 311 calls they were getting, or by simply driving around and seeing what a mess things are, is ridiculous and not on MCPS.

MCPS probably kept waiting for the county to do the job taxpayers pay for of its own initiative, because that's how government services are supposed to work. Not only bothering to get around to it because the school system nagged them. "How could we be expected to know we did a bad job until MCPS told us at 2:13 on a Sunday?" What an absurd excuse. Why don't you supervise your own clearing efforts and monitor progress through some kind of organized system like an actual competent department?

The plowing job on surface streets has been completely subpar and an embarrassment.

[phone]

County is not responsible for school bus stops

The bus stops aren't the only problem. Some roads are not passable for buses due to the way they've been plowed and maneuverability issues. The buses couldn't even get to the stop. That is the fault of county plowing. And if a bus can't get down there, a fire truck probably couldn't either. Again, not on MCPS.

I completely agree that the county could have done better. However, the County prioritizes snow emergency routes for emergency vehicles. MCPS should coordinate with the County regarding its school bus routes. MCPS sending the County a list of issues on Sunday afternoon and not 2 hours later bashing the County publicly is incredibly disingenuous. They didn't care about opening, they cared about blaming someone in order to stay closed. If they really wanted to open they would have been communicating with the county much earlier.

Exactly. There's a need to prioritize snow removal resources. Things aren't going to be perfect. The objective is to clear roads enough for emergency services as broadly as possible and as quickly as possible. That can mean only clearing one lane on a multi-lane roadway. That is generally going to be good enough for most purposes, albeit road capacity may be lower, and people may need to drive more slowly. Improving capacity and convenience from there is going to take more time. And often will be resource-intensive, we're seeing places where they need to use loaders and trucks to move the snow (rather than just pushing it out of the way).

We shouldn't need to wait until everything is perfectly clear to reopen schools. If MCPS has specific requirements (e.g., for buses) that extend beyond what would otherwise be part of that minimum tier of plowing, then they're obligated to communicate them to the county and coordinate with them to open schools.

MCPS failed here.

No way. MCPS is in charge of schooling. DOT etc are in charge of clearing roads. They failed. As did 70% of homeowners and businesses around me..

Here, let me help:

Attention:MCDOT, MDOT, HOAs, Joe-Six-Pack

You need to clear roads and sidewalks so that they are suitable for use by busses and children who walk to school. I know you already knew this and just botched it but some clowns on a DB think its MCPS job, so you are hereby notified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now try to imagine if electricity was out for several days too. Essential services are too vulnerable and freak storms will only increase. Nobody anticipate such ice, but also nobody tried to manage the aftermath. 8 days after, roads are crazy. Is anyone planning for the future storms? Because, next time, MCPS will be closed 2 weeks, or 3. What if supermarkets close for 5 straight days too? And MoCo is one of the richest counties in the country. There are huge lessons to be learnt here if we want to keep civilized order when bigger crises come.

Yes, I think the important thing is to look at what happened and identify lessons learned for the future. In the past I think we have always counted on the snow melting at some point. It's never been this cold for so long after a storm and it was a lot of precipitation. So yeah, MCDOT should think about planning for what they should do better when the snow doesn't melt.

But the message MCPS sent on Sunday publicly was inappropriate. If they had made those requests earlier and MCDOT was not responsive yeah I get they'd be peeved. But it just looks bad for them to point fingers without even trying to solve the issue first. It's trashy behavior.

Trashy or not, MCDOT deserves it. WTH are we all paying taxes for?

We are paying taxes for:
- Building and operating public schools
- Police
- Fire and Rescue
- Corrections
- Public health
- Montgomery College
- Building and maintaining roads, sidewalks and bikeways
- Running the parks system
- Building and operating libraries
- other things

There are also a lot of user fee based things like building permitting, housing code enforcement, and trash and recycling removal but those are not funded with general taxes.