People with low motivation/effort->not good at anything

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

I think you are actually the counter example, you didn’t follow a passion but you worked hard and you are doing well. I am talking more about a situation where you would follow your passion for writing yet not put in much effort and either be a low performer or move on to another passion. But one thing you made me think about - being a not so high performer still doesn’t mean one can’t have a job! -OP

PP here. It would have been better for me to follow my passion, even if I'd never succeeded as a writer. I had a plan (HS English teacher) for making money and being stable, but I wanted an education focused on writing to improve my skills. This was practical but others in my life (parents, siblings, peers) believed I was destined for some impressive corporate/white-collar career and really dissuaded me. As a result I compromised my goals and essentially "failed" at my chosen profession.

I would have been better if failing as a writer (which I have done anyway) but focusing my life on that passion, with a perfectly respectable backup job I know I would have been fine with. I wasted time and effort on a career I just do not care about to please others, and I regret that.

So yes, I'm the opposite of what you are talking about, but I wish I was exactly what you are talking about. Pushing people with artistic passions into fields that aren't artistic, just because these people seem smart, is not a path to success and happiness. For me it's been a path to mediocrity with no more financial pay off than my "passion" plan. Judging people with passions just because they might not succeed at it incorrectly assumes that their non-passion options will lead to more success. I have not found that to be true.

OP here. I am not against following a passion, I did it myself when I was young but I tried to be the really good at it, put in effort and I liked doing the regular work that surrounds that passion. What puzzles me is a young person who claims he likes to write for example, takes a creative writing class in community college and then proceeds to be lazy with drafts and edits, gets a low grade, then either moves on to something else or - much more puzzling - takes creative writing 2 the next year! Why?! If you like writing why don’t you want to put in effort? Yet I see this around me. What is this?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people don't have the tenacity or the skills to do anything hard in life. This is why we need lower level jobs and smaller living spaces. Its also OK to be this type of person and live your life with your family. People do this all over the world and then they take care of their parents in old age.

That's been my experience, that these people sometimes make really good caregivers or do well in other jobs that require work but not being super talented at a niche field.

And they do great work to help others, it's just not going to be earth shattering accomplishments or high earning.

They are why minimum wage needs to go up, so they can actually support themselves,.have a small apartment or condo or live with family, and be able to afford health care.

One really nice guy I knew like this ended up taking care of both his elderly parents and running a lawn care business, mostly cutting the lawns of elderly people in town. Another works as a CNA in a nursing home. Another is a cook who also takes care of his disabled brother. None of these people in the DC metro, becithey couldn't afford to live here.

OP here, none of the young people I know who are like this strike me as the caregiving type. What struck me is what looked like laziness to me, even if it was their chosen field. If you are taking a class you like for example, wouldn’t you want to go the work? Maybe it is indeed adhd but as I said one of them did the testing and nothing. Maybe it just takes them longer to find what they truly want to do.
I agree on the smaller spaces though and on very structured jobs with little initiative required that people like this could do. These are usually minimum wage jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no skills, but I'm a very good worker. I have been rehired at my customer service job by three different companies 10 times at minimum.
I was too busy surviving as an immigrant from age 18-30 working low wage jobs. I had no time to think about my passions or wants.
Comes out that my passion is personal finance.
I remember counting my pennies even as a kid in the old country. I had no idea that dealing with money can be a career. We didn't even have banks back at home. I also found a budgeting notebook from year 2001. It was normal for me to have them.
I invested some of my money and it replaced my low income very fast. Now I work only part time to keep busy. I'm at an age now (48) where I need to concentrate on building muscle and keep healthy. Glad I have the time.
I don't know too many immigrants that are low effort, but the Americans I know, have family homes and some support to be able to survive.
If my kid ends up being low effort, he has family to turn to. He is working at 18 already while in college. He said working is better than
sitting at home. Silly him.

How condescending of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully it’s the right forum.
What happens to these people? Those who claim to have “passions” but are very low effort and therefore no success and then are either bad at it or move on to other things. I know a few young people who are like that. What’s your experience? Do they mature and become good at something? Or do they drift through life, hanging by a thread?

Drift through life, go live with their parents, hopefully find an easy govt job, need to not rack up credit card debt, may have undiagnosed and untreated mental disorders.

If they are a smooth talker they may trick someone into marrying them, only to have a miserable marriage or divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people don't have the tenacity or the skills to do anything hard in life. This is why we need lower level jobs and smaller living spaces. Its also OK to be this type of person and live your life with your family. People do this all over the world and then they take care of their parents in old age.

OMG, you're so close... and yet...

The rest of the world lives this way because it's actually functional. Whatever BS you bought into about how only people at the top of the heap of exhausted human bodies are "successful" is a disease. Condescendingly referring to the things that make your life what it is as "lower level jobs" is more indicative of your mental disorder than actual social dysfunction. I bet you push for "smaller living spaces" because you don't want to pay those "lower level" workers a living wage, right?

Gross. Greedy and gross, and grossly overestimating your own actual worth as a human. You are more than a bank account. Sorry nobody loved you enough to tell you that.

Thank you. I truly believe this person's world view is a huge part of what's wrong with this world. Worth is inherent and doesn't come from what you do. Believing your worth comes from money and success causes you anxiety because you always have to have more and allows you to "other" people, which is toxic.

Lol. Who said anything about them being less worth? Look in the mirror as to why your thoughts went that way. No one needs to support others just because they aren't as skilled. In fact it would diminish their worth as an adult to do so and as you said money does not define worth so money and living spaces don't define worth. They simply define what people can afford. People who have less motivation and skills can make less money and live in smaller spaces and still have worth as a human. You said it yourself.

Define "skills". Because the people you think have "less motivation and skills" probably just have less manipulative tendencies and greed. I know plenty of "skilled professionals" who can't make a simple meal for themselves, or keep a calendar, or carry on a conversation that isn't about their job. Being "skilled" at something that makes you money doesn't make you a well-rounded person. This whole thread is about people who aren't motivated to become that sort of person and how it's a problem. It's not. It's a value judgment by the OP, and badly flawed logic.

No. oP is talking about people who never apply themselves in any way, shape or form. Not a narrowly skilled professional with no hobbies or interests.

I do agree, being a work addict skilled professional who only does talks, breathes that one thing is not a curious, well rounded person. They can problem mask their way through a. Dinner or tour or group event, but then start repeating themselves or needing decompression time alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

I think you are actually the counter example, you didn’t follow a passion but you worked hard and you are doing well. I am talking more about a situation where you would follow your passion for writing yet not put in much effort and either be a low performer or move on to another passion. But one thing you made me think about - being a not so high performer still doesn’t mean one can’t have a job! -OP

PP here. It would have been better for me to follow my passion, even if I'd never succeeded as a writer. I had a plan (HS English teacher) for making money and being stable, but I wanted an education focused on writing to improve my skills. This was practical but others in my life (parents, siblings, peers) believed I was destined for some impressive corporate/white-collar career and really dissuaded me. As a result I compromised my goals and essentially "failed" at my chosen profession.

I would have been better if failing as a writer (which I have done anyway) but focusing my life on that passion, with a perfectly respectable backup job I know I would have been fine with. I wasted time and effort on a career I just do not care about to please others, and I regret that.

So yes, I'm the opposite of what you are talking about, but I wish I was exactly what you are talking about. Pushing people with artistic passions into fields that aren't artistic, just because these people seem smart, is not a path to success and happiness. For me it's been a path to mediocrity with no more financial pay off than my "passion" plan. Judging people with passions just because they might not succeed at it incorrectly assumes that their non-passion options will lead to more success. I have not found that to be true.

OP here. I am not against following a passion, I did it myself when I was young but I tried to be the really good at it, put in effort and I liked doing the regular work that surrounds that passion. What puzzles me is a young person who claims he likes to write for example, takes a creative writing class in community college and then proceeds to be lazy with drafts and edits, gets a low grade, then either moves on to something else or - much more puzzling - takes creative writing 2 the next year! Why?! If you like writing why don’t you want to put in effort? Yet I see this around me. What is this?!

I want to know too.

Lack of self discipline?
Spoilt brat?
Lazy?
Adhd or asd?
Naive and lack of common sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people don't have the tenacity or the skills to do anything hard in life. This is why we need lower level jobs and smaller living spaces. Its also OK to be this type of person and live your life with your family. People do this all over the world and then they take care of their parents in old age.

That's been my experience, that these people sometimes make really good caregivers or do well in other jobs that require work but not being super talented at a niche field.

And they do great work to help others, it's just not going to be earth shattering accomplishments or high earning.

They are why minimum wage needs to go up, so they can actually support themselves,.have a small apartment or condo or live with family, and be able to afford health care.

One really nice guy I knew like this ended up taking care of both his elderly parents and running a lawn care business, mostly cutting the lawns of elderly people in town. Another works as a CNA in a nursing home. Another is a cook who also takes care of his disabled brother. None of these people in the DC metro, becithey couldn't afford to live here.

The above is someone who absolutely should not have a desk computer job or strategy jib. They need to be on their feet, having wiggle time, moving, obvious prioritization of their time.

[Anonymous]

No work to take home and continue ti think about or optimize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. I don't know. My daughter is like this. She's 23 and doesn't have a job despite a college degree. Quit the sports that we encouraged her to do. Quit her STEM major for a fluffy arts degree.


FWIW no one else in my family, including me, DW, and DS are like this.

So how is she supporting herself as a full fledged adult?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She works at a bakery/cafe full time. She has always been someone who would rather NOT try because she's so afraid to fail, not seeing you can fail, regroup and try again. So she's 22 and has taken like three college classes after dropping out of HS and eventually getting a GED. Very sad.

I know someone who went this route and now they are pushing 50 and still live with their parents. They bounced around from various restaurant and retail jobs, moved in with boyfriends/friends in different cities/beach towns when they were younger, but ultimately wound up single, childless, and living with their parents for the bulk of their 30s and 40s.

Hindsight being 20/20, I think they let an anxiety diagnosis be an excuse for never having to work hard and figure things out. When things got hard, they moved on (or moved back with their folks). I hope they will inherit enough money to support themselves because they haven’t been working for a number of years.

It’s sad, but it’s also baffling. They grew up in a nice home in a nice area and went to good schools K-12 (private). No trauma or abuse. Perhaps too much coddling?

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure what the problem is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully it’s the right forum.
What happens to these people? Those who claim to have “passions” but are very low effort and therefore no success and then are either bad at it or move on to other things. I know a few young people who are like that. What’s your experience? Do they mature and become good at something? Or do they drift through life, hanging by a thread?

Drift through life, go live with their parents, hopefully find an easy govt job, need to not rack up credit card debt, may have undiagnosed and untreated mental disorders.

If they are a smooth talker they may trick someone into marrying them, only to have a miserable marriage or divorce.

This. Those also lead to anxiety and/or depression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She works at a bakery/cafe full time. She has always been someone who would rather NOT try because she's so afraid to fail, not seeing you can fail, regroup and try again. So she's 22 and has taken like three college classes after dropping out of HS and eventually getting a GED. Very sad.

I know someone who went this route and now they are pushing 50 and still live with their parents. They bounced around from various restaurant and retail jobs, moved in with boyfriends/friends in different cities/beach towns when they were younger, but ultimately wound up single, childless, and living with their parents for the bulk of their 30s and 40s.

Hindsight being 20/20, I think they let an anxiety diagnosis be an excuse for never having to work hard and figure things out. When things got hard, they moved on (or moved back with their folks). I hope they will inherit enough money to support themselves because they haven’t been working for a number of years.

It’s sad, but it’s also baffling. They grew up in a nice home in a nice area and went to good schools K-12 (private). No trauma or abuse. Perhaps too much coddling?

This young woman grew up poor and was absolutely NOT coddled. She grew up in a tough area of a city and went to public schools. She rents a room in an apartment and is just earning enough to pay her bills. I think she has zero cc debt but am not positive. She will not inherit any money. What makes me sad is that I know just how smart she is - she could get A's in college with minimal effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

I think you are actually the counter example, you didn’t follow a passion but you worked hard and you are doing well. I am talking more about a situation where you would follow your passion for writing yet not put in much effort and either be a low performer or move on to another passion. But one thing you made me think about - being a not so high performer still doesn’t mean one can’t have a job! -OP

PP here. It would have been better for me to follow my passion, even if I'd never succeeded as a writer. I had a plan (HS English teacher) for making money and being stable, but I wanted an education focused on writing to improve my skills. This was practical but others in my life (parents, siblings, peers) believed I was destined for some impressive corporate/white-collar career and really dissuaded me. As a result I compromised my goals and essentially "failed" at my chosen profession.

I would have been better if failing as a writer (which I have done anyway) but focusing my life on that passion, with a perfectly respectable backup job I know I would have been fine with. I wasted time and effort on a career I just do not care about to please others, and I regret that.

So yes, I'm the opposite of what you are talking about, but I wish I was exactly what you are talking about. Pushing people with artistic passions into fields that aren't artistic, just because these people seem smart, is not a path to success and happiness. For me it's been a path to mediocrity with no more financial pay off than my "passion" plan. Judging people with passions just because they might not succeed at it incorrectly assumes that their non-passion options will lead to more success. I have not found that to be true.

OP here. I am not against following a passion, I did it myself when I was young but I tried to be the really good at it, put in effort and I liked doing the regular work that surrounds that passion. What puzzles me is a young person who claims he likes to write for example, takes a creative writing class in community college and then proceeds to be lazy with drafts and edits, gets a low grade, then either moves on to something else or - much more puzzling - takes creative writing 2 the next year! Why?! If you like writing why don’t you want to put in effort? Yet I see this around me. What is this?!

I want to know too.

Lack of self discipline?
Spoilt brat?
Lazy?
Adhd or asd?
Naive and lack of common sense?

Spoiled is out because one of them is unlike his brothers. Don’t think he was treated differently.
None of them strikes me as naive.
One tested for adhd and he isn’t, the rest were never tested.
Lazy is the only explanation left I guess?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: No work to take home and continue ti think about or optimize.

Op here, definitely, they aren’t “homework people”