Trapped/Re-aging Families, How are you having the conversation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:99% of the comments ignore the PP's question lol

I think it’s hard to have that conversation with the club now if tryouts are in march/april. Clubs will just speculate because they don’t have firm ideas of who is coming to tryouts yet.

[Anonymous]

Our club lost ECNL on the girls' side a couple of years ago (RL is our highest girls option) and our October birthday freshman is doing ODP, sharing film, etc. to get exposure to clubs with ECNL teams. Seems like a good time to make a switch because all teams are going to change. Of course our current club won't allow her to go kick around with other clubs.

Her current team went to nationals last year and is poised to do so again so she should have some options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:99% of the comments ignore the PP's question lol

I think it’s hard to have that conversation with the club now if tryouts are in march/april. Clubs will just speculate because they don’t have firm ideas of who is coming to tryouts yet.

It's really not that hard for clubs to set up scrimmages of mixed age groups now. Might level set some of the younger age groups parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:99% of the comments ignore the PP's question lol

I think it’s hard to have that conversation with the club now if tryouts are in march/april. Clubs will just speculate because they don’t have firm ideas of who is coming to tryouts yet.

It's really not that hard for clubs to set up scrimmages of mixed age groups now. Might level set some of the younger age groups parents.

No but hard to have the conversation of a Aug/sept staying up/on grade level when the club doesn’t know how many roster spots they potentially have at that age group. The club obviously knows the landscape of their current players but the big unknown is aug-dec players from outside of the club (second team at other clubs, lower clubs) who will drop down an age group and can potentially jump up in level.

Maybe the club can given an answer now if it’s an automatic no (although I doubt they do, most clubs will appease parents for as long as possible) but most clubs won’t give more than that until they have tryout registrations and see what the age groups potentially look like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:99% of the comments ignore the PP's question lol

I think it’s hard to have that conversation with the club now if tryouts are in march/april. Clubs will just speculate because they don’t have firm ideas of who is coming to tryouts yet.

It's really not that hard for clubs to set up scrimmages of mixed age groups now. Might level set some of the younger age groups parents.

I honestly think they don't want to give them the ability to prepare. The more the Jan-July parents "think" things will stay the same, the less preparation they will do and they will have to accept a 2nd team within the club because "they thought" there kid was a superstar and not potentially on the chopping block. Especially in the younger age groups, August - December kids from 2nd teams of MLS Next and ECNL clubs as well as EDP clubs will be eyeing 1st team spots dropping down to their new level. The younger you get, the more a few months matters in the physicality of the players.

[Anonymous]

My kid has an early July birthday and is about to become one of (if not THE) youngest player on his team. He will essentially be playing up next year. We have already asked the club and they said the club is already looking at the new team dynamics. We are MLSN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid has an early July birthday and is about to become one of (if not THE) youngest player on his team. He will essentially be playing up next year. We have already asked the club and they said the club is already looking at the new team dynamics. We are MLSN.

I’m sure clubs are preparing.

I would just caution everyone to keep their eyes and options open and don’t take anything as a guarantee until you see the offer in writing regardless of what is said verbally. This is true at any time but especially this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:99% of the comments ignore the PP's question lol

I think it’s hard to have that conversation with the club now if tryouts are in march/april. Clubs will just speculate because they don’t have firm ideas of who is coming to tryouts yet.

It's really not that hard for clubs to set up scrimmages of mixed age groups now. Might level set some of the younger age groups parents.

From what I've observed of older second team players against first team younger players, there's going to be a lot of coach/parent-interpretation over which kids are "better," and hence the need to try out at a few clubs if you want to move from a second to first team. At 2012 & 2013 ECNL/RL, I've seen different players look completely superior in different circumstances.

2013 "stars" sub up for 2012 second team: 2013 stars looked mediocre, like middle of the 2012 second team. The most technical player was completely useless, pushed off everything, overwhelmed by girls being bigger and faster to pressure her. Only one who looked OK was the most athletic, least technical, of the bunch, because she could still scrap. Best 2012 girls are carrying the team.

2013 first team game against 2012 second team: 2013 girls looked totally superior. They play as a team better, won the game, and demonstrated far better off-ball movement and positioning. That carried the day over a team that was physically stronger and faster. Even the best 2012 girls look like they are chasing play.

2013 first team and 2012 second team practice together: in 1v1 (and even 3v3) drills, the best 2012 (Q4 girls) absolutely dominated the 2013 girls, both offensively and defensively. No exaggeration, it's not close. The best 2012 girls were stronger, faster, better skills, juggle better, etc. The worst 2012 second team girls were even more noticeably a mess.

So, if I'm the 2013 first team coach watching a scrimmage against 2012 second team, I'm thinking I don't want any of them. At a merged practice doing drills and small-sided scrimmages, I'm thinking a couple of the second team 2012 girls are better than anyone I've got. But those girls are definitely behind on the patterns of play of a better team. For instance, they crowd teammates, expecting the ball to be lost, instead of finding space and preparing to make a scoring run when a teammate wins the ball. I'd be left wondering if I can teach off-ball movement to the better 1v1 player or if I should just wait for the younger, better-off-ball player to catch up athletically to the older girl. Essentially, I think some coaches will say "it's too late" for the Q4 girls to catch up on their soccer IQ and just pass on them if they were on the second team. It's not very fair, but second team players have some bad habits. They're used to having to do too much with less team help. Other coaches will take the best 1v1 players, which will lead to a bigger shuffle.

[Anonymous]

I am clearly in the tiny minority

Whatever the age cutoff next year, my kid just shows up and plays in their current or new age group/team

I believe its called life changes. Something that they'll have to deal with in life going forward

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one issue could be for August and September kids who went to school on time (VA side), now they have to repeat a year and will not play with the kids at the same grades.

I assume most clubs will treat this like grad year, as the point on the girls side is recruiting.

Clubs and leagues have made it clear, play on age, best of the best plays up. Grade not a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:99% of the comments ignore the PP's question lol

I think it’s hard to have that conversation with the club now if tryouts are in march/april. Clubs will just speculate because they don’t have firm ideas of who is coming to tryouts yet.

It's really not that hard for clubs to set up scrimmages of mixed age groups now. Might level set some of the younger age groups parents.

I honestly think they don't want to give them the ability to prepare. The more the Jan-July parents "think" things will stay the same, the less preparation they will do and they will have to accept a 2nd team within the club because "they thought" there kid was a superstar and not potentially on the chopping block. Especially in the younger age groups, August - December kids from 2nd teams of MLS Next and ECNL clubs as well as EDP clubs will be eyeing 1st team spots dropping down to their new level. The younger you get, the more a few months matters in the physicality of the players.

Yup, clubs being cagey on waiting on demotions until the last second for January-July players. Better have a back up team ready to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am clearly in the tiny minority

Whatever the age cutoff next year, my kid just shows up and plays in their current or new age group/team

I believe its called life changes. Something that they'll have to deal with in life going forward

Yeah. I get what you are saying. What age is your kid? Because I think that makes a pretty big difference in how this is dealt with and the emotions that go along with it. I am now going through this twice. The first time around was when everything was switched from previous SY type cutoffs to birthyear. That was when my DS was playing U10. He had a great team and we were looking forward to things, but suddenly when the teams changed to BY, my son was only one of 3 kids left on the team. All the other kids were moving "up" from what they thought was U11 to U12. There was a ton of scrambling to find them places. It was really a pretty big disruption because he had a pretty good group of kids and parents. While we obviously had no choice to move age groups, we weren't thrilled about it. That's my selfish opinion.

At the time, my DD was playing U-Little rec so it didn't matter for her, but now she is playing U17 ECNL. She's not going to be impacted at all because she's an early January B-Day and is in a good spot on her current team. But, there are plenty of players that will be impacted and it will be interested to see how things fall out. The grin it and bear it makes sense, but sometimes is just tough to do. Good Luck to all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one issue could be for August and September kids who went to school on time (VA side), now they have to repeat a year and will not play with the kids at the same grades.

I assume most clubs will treat this like grad year, as the point on the girls side is recruiting.

Clubs and leagues have made it clear, play on age, best of the best plays up. Grade not a factor.

You have no idea about this and are repeating what someone else said.

The truth is that playing with your grade makes the most sense when it comes to being recruited for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:99% of the comments ignore the PP's question lol

I think it’s hard to have that conversation with the club now if tryouts are in march/april. Clubs will just speculate because they don’t have firm ideas of who is coming to tryouts yet.

It's really not that hard for clubs to set up scrimmages of mixed age groups now. Might level set some of the younger age groups parents.

From what I've observed of older second team players against first team younger players, there's going to be a lot of coach/parent-interpretation over which kids are "better," and hence the need to try out at a few clubs if you want to move from a second to first team. At 2012 & 2013 ECNL/RL, I've seen different players look completely superior in different circumstances.

2013 "stars" sub up for 2012 second team: 2013 stars looked mediocre, like middle of the 2012 second team. The most technical player was completely useless, pushed off everything, overwhelmed by girls being bigger and faster to pressure her. Only one who looked OK was the most athletic, least technical, of the bunch, because she could still scrap. Best 2012 girls are carrying the team.

2013 first team game against 2012 second team: 2013 girls looked totally superior. They play as a team better, won the game, and demonstrated far better off-ball movement and positioning. That carried the day over a team that was physically stronger and faster. Even the best 2012 girls look like they are chasing play.

2013 first team and 2012 second team practice together: in 1v1 (and even 3v3) drills, the best 2012 (Q4 girls) absolutely dominated the 2013 girls, both offensively and defensively. No exaggeration, it's not close. The best 2012 girls were stronger, faster, better skills, juggle better, etc. The worst 2012 second team girls were even more noticeably a mess.

So, if I'm the 2013 first team coach watching a scrimmage against 2012 second team, I'm thinking I don't want any of them. At a merged practice doing drills and small-sided scrimmages, I'm thinking a couple of the second team 2012 girls are better than anyone I've got. But those girls are definitely behind on the patterns of play of a better team. For instance, they crowd teammates, expecting the ball to be lost, instead of finding space and preparing to make a scoring run when a teammate wins the ball. I'd be left wondering if I can teach off-ball movement to the better 1v1 player or if I should just wait for the younger, better-off-ball player to catch up athletically to the older girl. Essentially, I think some coaches will say "it's too late" for the Q4 girls to catch up on their soccer IQ and just pass on them if they were on the second team. It's not very fair, but second team players have some bad habits. They're used to having to do too much with less team help. Other coaches will take the best 1v1 players, which will lead to a bigger shuffle.

This is a really good post. Well done, sincerely. It shows the issues with being a bubble player at a relatively young age. If you are not on a first team by 8th grade, it will be very very hard to overcome the well-articulated limitations. My DD is a bit older and is trying to fight her way through this bias right now, and it is frankly impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one issue could be for August and September kids who went to school on time (VA side), now they have to repeat a year and will not play with the kids at the same grades.

I assume most clubs will treat this like grad year, as the point on the girls side is recruiting.

Clubs and leagues have made it clear, play on age, best of the best plays up. Grade not a factor.

You have no idea about this and are repeating what someone else said.

The truth is that playing with your grade makes the most sense when it comes to being recruited for college.

Don't shoot the messenger. What makes sense to you doesn't to someone else. ECNL in podcast and Arlington announced play on age except for the few amazing players that can even dominate up an age group, just like now. Now McLean agrees and others chiming in with same thing.