9th grade honors English update

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a poster said somewhere, it's a DIY as they cater to the students who need to be brought up to grade level. Many students reading at home and outside of school are probably in most cases not the ones teachers are focused on. The "advanced" students read beyond what school assigns.

Do students receive feedback on their writing in mcps? Do teachers have *time* to provide feedback?

I would say that if the structure of English instruction is such that teachers don't have the bandwith to pay attention to the above grade-level students (and I don't put this on the teachers, it's admin and the district policy), they should at least let those kids test out of the class and take a study hall they can use for HW for other classes or reading books of their choosing.

If you feel your kid isn't getting instruction in their 9th grade English class, isn't that class a study hall anyway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a poster said somewhere, it's a DIY as they cater to the students who need to be brought up to grade level. Many students reading at home and outside of school are probably in most cases not the ones teachers are focused on. The "advanced" students read beyond what school assigns.

Do students receive feedback on their writing in mcps? Do teachers have *time* to provide feedback?

I would say that if the structure of English instruction is such that teachers don't have the bandwith to pay attention to the above grade-level students (and I don't put this on the teachers, it's admin and the district policy), they should at least let those kids test out of the class and take a study hall they can use for HW for other classes or reading books of their choosing.

If you feel your kid isn't getting instruction in their 9th grade English class, isn't that class a study hall anyway?

It’s probably worse if they can’t concentrate because of the below grade-level instruction going on around them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I co teach with two different 9th grade Honors English teachers and one of them assigned a full novel to read while the other we read excerpts of a graphic novel in class. The class with the full novel had one student out of 20 earn an A for the MP and 14 of them failed for the quarter.
I get the feeling from my colleagues that we would like to assign more reading and work in general but it is difficult to explain to admin and parents that doing so will result in more than half the class failing the course.

Sounds like a lot of kids should not be in Honors English.

This. Co-teacher PP are you in a high poverty school? Is the full novel teacher a rookie? Does your school offer non-honors English 9?

This is the co-teacher here. I am actually the first year teacher and both English teachers i teach with have done this for at least 6 years. We do not offer non honors english as honors for all seems to be a county wide policy.

The biggest thing i noticed with the full novel class is that the teacher who has established the schedule and pacing for the class has set it up so all reading is done at home with very little to no in class check for understanding. The students are given a week to read 70 pages and complete an assignment based on those pages. Rinse repeat for 4 chunks. I had 2 out of 20 students complete all 4 assignments, 4 students complete 2 of them, and 14 do none of them. That data isn’t just specific to the reading. All 4 of my classes of 9th graders complete and turn in roughly about 20% of work that is not done entirely in class.

Do you have a sense of why so few of them are doing any work outside class, and whether this is an issue of kids struggling to adjust from low demands in MS to higher demands in HS, or a broader issue that will likely continue throughout HS?

Also, curious how high the FARMS rate is at your school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I co teach with two different 9th grade Honors English teachers and one of them assigned a full novel to read while the other we read excerpts of a graphic novel in class. The class with the full novel had one student out of 20 earn an A for the MP and 14 of them failed for the quarter.
I get the feeling from my colleagues that we would like to assign more reading and work in general but it is difficult to explain to admin and parents that doing so will result in more than half the class failing the course.

Sounds like a lot of kids should not be in Honors English.

This. Co-teacher PP are you in a high poverty school? Is the full novel teacher a rookie? Does your school offer non-honors English 9?

This is the co-teacher here. I am actually the first year teacher and both English teachers i teach with have done this for at least 6 years. We do not offer non honors english as honors for all seems to be a county wide policy.

The biggest thing i noticed with the full novel class is that the teacher who has established the schedule and pacing for the class has set it up so all reading is done at home with very little to no in class check for understanding. The students are given a week to read 70 pages and complete an assignment based on those pages. Rinse repeat for 4 chunks. I had 2 out of 20 students complete all 4 assignments, 4 students complete 2 of them, and 14 do none of them. That data isn’t just specific to the reading. All 4 of my classes of 9th graders complete and turn in roughly about 20% of work that is not done entirely in class.

Do you have a sense of why so few of them are doing any work outside class, and whether this is an issue of kids struggling to adjust from low demands in MS to higher demands in HS, or a broader issue that will likely continue throughout HS?

Also, curious how high the FARMS rate is at your school?

I worked in middle schools primarily before becoming a HS teacher this year and I 100% believe the biggest issue is the lack of educational consequences leading up to 9th grade. Unless a student has tiger parents, they are conditioned to do the bare minimum at all costs. Even my strong students are demanding to know word count and sentence minimums. If we say 400-600 words, every single student, to include the kids with high MAP scores, is counting words and without fail will be no more than 10 words over the minimum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I co teach with two different 9th grade Honors English teachers and one of them assigned a full novel to read while the other we read excerpts of a graphic novel in class. The class with the full novel had one student out of 20 earn an A for the MP and 14 of them failed for the quarter.
I get the feeling from my colleagues that we would like to assign more reading and work in general but it is difficult to explain to admin and parents that doing so will result in more than half the class failing the course.

Sounds like a lot of kids should not be in Honors English.

This. Co-teacher PP are you in a high poverty school? Is the full novel teacher a rookie? Does your school offer non-honors English 9?

This is the co-teacher here. I am actually the first year teacher and both English teachers i teach with have done this for at least 6 years. We do not offer non honors english as honors for all seems to be a county wide policy.

The biggest thing i noticed with the full novel class is that the teacher who has established the schedule and pacing for the class has set it up so all reading is done at home with very little to no in class check for understanding. The students are given a week to read 70 pages and complete an assignment based on those pages. Rinse repeat for 4 chunks. I had 2 out of 20 students complete all 4 assignments, 4 students complete 2 of them, and 14 do none of them. That data isn’t just specific to the reading. All 4 of my classes of 9th graders complete and turn in roughly about 20% of work that is not done entirely in class.

I am 90% certain this is the most demanding English class in MCPS, and the others are nothing like this on the expectations side. The rest meet the gen-ed students where they are (as you described your students).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I co teach with two different 9th grade Honors English teachers and one of them assigned a full novel to read while the other we read excerpts of a graphic novel in class. The class with the full novel had one student out of 20 earn an A for the MP and 14 of them failed for the quarter.
I get the feeling from my colleagues that we would like to assign more reading and work in general but it is difficult to explain to admin and parents that doing so will result in more than half the class failing the course.

Sounds like a lot of kids should not be in Honors English.

This. Co-teacher PP are you in a high poverty school? Is the full novel teacher a rookie? Does your school offer non-honors English 9?

This is the co-teacher here. I am actually the first year teacher and both English teachers i teach with have done this for at least 6 years. We do not offer non honors english as honors for all seems to be a county wide policy.

The biggest thing i noticed with the full novel class is that the teacher who has established the schedule and pacing for the class has set it up so all reading is done at home with very little to no in class check for understanding. The students are given a week to read 70 pages and complete an assignment based on those pages. Rinse repeat for 4 chunks. I had 2 out of 20 students complete all 4 assignments, 4 students complete 2 of them, and 14 do none of them. That data isn’t just specific to the reading. All 4 of my classes of 9th graders complete and turn in roughly about 20% of work that is not done entirely in class.

Do you have a sense of why so few of them are doing any work outside class, and whether this is an issue of kids struggling to adjust from low demands in MS to higher demands in HS, or a broader issue that will likely continue throughout HS?

Also, curious how high the FARMS rate is at your school?

I worked in middle schools primarily before becoming a HS teacher this year and I 100% believe the biggest issue is the lack of educational consequences leading up to 9th grade. Unless a student has tiger parents, they are conditioned to do the bare minimum at all costs. Even my strong students are demanding to know word count and sentence minimums. If we say 400-600 words, every single student, to include the kids with high MAP scores, is counting words and without fail will be no more than 10 words over the minimum.

Kids have always been that way.

[Anonymous]

I heard another class at her school just started their third book

Which books?

[Anonymous]

MCPS Equity/ Anti-Racist strategy is to refuse to teach the advanced students until the bottom catches up. If you want better class, you need to organize to teach the lowest performing kids to prepare them for it.

Anything that's impossible or impractical for one, is disallowed for all. See the standard illustration:



But it's missing the postmodern update: if one kid doesn't like baseball, then the game should be cancelled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to understand that your child may be ready and willing to read multiple novels throughout the course of the year, but not all of the class is. Teaching a novel is great in theory, but it isn't reality.

You ask students to read the first 5 chapters by Friday. You send messages home (through myMCPS Classroom, Remind, and Synergy) about the assigned readings and to bring the book on Friday. Students know that they are supposed to read. Friday you have an amazing lesson in which students must use the reading to engage. Friday comes and only a handful of students have done the reading and only a few have the book with them. Now what do you do? Lesson is a flop. Or you ask students to read the novel and then complete an assignment at the end. But, again, only a handful of students read it, so the majority of the class can't do the assignment, so they earn a zero or a 50%. Okay, so reading the novel at home doesn't work. Let's try giving students time in class to read. But students goof around and talk throughout the time. So, you find the audio version of the novel and listen to it in class. Now you spends days and days listening to the novel. You can't teach the rest of the curriculum because you are listening to the novel. So, you finally give up and just read excerpts. This is the reality in many English classes across the county.

When I went to school, you would just fail the assignment and probably get detention for not bringing the book in. I know that is not what happens today though.

[Anonymous]

It's absolutely insane that my kid, who was lucky enough to lottery in to the Eastern magnet, read more books in 6th grade than they will read maybe throughout all of high school??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS Equity/ Anti-Racist strategy is to refuse to teach the advanced students until the bottom catches up. If you want better class, you need to organize to teach the lowest performing kids to prepare them for it.

Anything that's impossible or impractical for one, is disallowed for all. See the standard illustration:



But it's missing the postmodern update: if one kid doesn't like baseball, then the game should be cancelled

Sad but true

[Anonymous]

Who on Earth would want to be an English teacher these days in MCPS? This is depressing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grader is now reading his first book, "Animal Farm" by Orwell. They were doing short stories before that.
My 4th grader is on his 4th book. He is cohorts enriched reding class.

Is your 8th grader in MCPS? Because Animal Farm is not in 8th grade CKLA. They just finished Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass. If you are in your local MCPS, it sounds like your teacher is going rogue.

My 8th grade kid is finishing Life of Frederick Douglass and starting Animal Farm soon. No rogue teacher-just normal MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to understand that your child may be ready and willing to read multiple novels throughout the course of the year, but not all of the class is. Teaching a novel is great in theory, but it isn't reality.

You ask students to read the first 5 chapters by Friday. You send messages home (through myMCPS Classroom, Remind, and Synergy) about the assigned readings and to bring the book on Friday. Students know that they are supposed to read. Friday you have an amazing lesson in which students must use the reading to engage. Friday comes and only a handful of students have done the reading and only a few have the book with them. Now what do you do? Lesson is a flop. Or you ask students to read the novel and then complete an assignment at the end. But, again, only a handful of students read it, so the majority of the class can't do the assignment, so they earn a zero or a 50%. Okay, so reading the novel at home doesn't work. Let's try giving students time in class to read. But students goof around and talk throughout the time. So, you find the audio version of the novel and listen to it in class. Now you spends days and days listening to the novel. You can't teach the rest of the curriculum because you are listening to the novel. So, you finally give up and just read excerpts. This is the reality in many English classes across the county.

I definitely feel for teachers who have the impossible task of teaching to such a wide range of abilities and interest in a high school class. MCPS really needs to go back to offering a regular, on-level English 9 for most students. It's unfair to the students who are ready and interested in doing the work to be placed in a class full of students who either can't or don't want to.

+1. Enough of this honors for all. It isn’t helping anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t find the thread from earlier this year but just thought I’d note that we are 2.5 months into the school year and so far my kid has only read only one short novel in honors English. With no news as to whether or when they will read a second one. I heard another class at her school just started their third — I really don’t think it’s fair that there is so much variation between different sections of what is supposed to be the same class.
We looked recently at a private HS and they are reading 8-10 novels per year. I am sure those kids aren’t better readers than ours. I’m really perplexed by this because it doesn’t seem like it would be that much more work for the teachers to assign more books. Especially when they are such short ones.

My DD is in private school. In middle school, they read 6 books and in high school (9th grade), she has read 5 books. You can always supplement though - at least MCPS is good for mathematics and science.