Litigation or mediation

[Anonymous]

If you ask 3-4 of your friends with similar life situations what they regret in their divorce settlements, that will likely prompt you to think of even more things to be sure to address in your settlement. Everyone I know who used a lawyer has things the lawyers forgot to include that I did include. The absolutely most important thing for moms, IMHO, is to include language about life insurance to cover the child's needs, and to have that policy kept in effect permanently with your children as the beneficiaries, and include language that says they remain the beneficiaries even if the dad remarries. So many kids get disinherited from the main breadwinner parent (dad) when he remarries and fails to have prenup language or a locked in life insurance policy that will remain in his kids' names. The new wife inherits everything that would otherwise have gone to those kids and she gives it to her own kids. It's a travesty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd guess that 90+% of people don't need a lawyer to do a divorce, and that includes those with minor children and property/assets, so long as you live in a state that publishes guidelines. So long as you spend some time thinking through all the things you want and need in light of those guidelines, and think through how it will play out each year until your children are finished with college, anybody with common sense can do it on their own. In DC, there are mediators paid for with our tax dollars who walk you through all the big issues to consider, and this is totally free even if you're upper income.

It's the crazy places like Virginia (equitable distribution states) where way too much is left to the discretion of judges that can be tricky.

I mean, this only works if you agree on everything easily with your ex. Most of us don’t, hence the divorce. Unless there were no assets and no kids, I would never advise anyone not to retain a lawyer. Just because you have a lawyer doesn’t mean you have to spend a lot of money litigating.

[Anonymous]

It seems that in Virginia, the wishes of the child, if they are mature and at least 12, are taken into account in custody decisions. Practically speaking, has anyone seen/received full custody in a divorce settlement when their teenager (for good reason, but not physical abuse) was requesting it?

[Anonymous]

It works if your ex uses common sense. When the outcome by a judge is pretty clearly prescribed, there is not much to fight over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems that in Virginia, the wishes of the child, if they are mature and at least 12, are taken into account in custody decisions. Practically speaking, has anyone seen/received full custody in a divorce settlement when their teenager (for good reason, but not physical abuse) was requesting it?

I'm in Virginia and my child's counselor told her (and they both separately told me) that it was age 14, not age 12. The World's Worst Lawyer (Google) concurred.

[Anonymous]

With regards to child custody and the child’s preference, even in states that have specific ages for judges to consider the child’s wishes, it’s seems it’s still a judicial discretion issue. You might get a judge who listens to every child who comes through the door and considers their stated preferences seriously, and others who won’t talk to anyone who’s under 18. My research (because I’m concerned about this, too) suggests that it’s luck of the draw, which is a terrible thing when you’re trying to understand your family’s future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Do you have proof? The burden of proof for adultery is really high.”

What is proof going to do for you? Courts don’t care. Just split the estate and custody 50/50 and move on.

It matters in Virginia and can affect alimony and asset division. But the burden of proof is EXTRAORDINARILY high. Like you need a PI with photos on multiple occasions.

In Virginia, adulty is actually a misdemeanor crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With regards to child custody and the child’s preference, even in states that have specific ages for judges to consider the child’s wishes, it’s seems it’s still a judicial discretion issue. You might get a judge who listens to every child who comes through the door and considers their stated preferences seriously, and others who won’t talk to anyone who’s under 18. My research (because I’m concerned about this, too) suggests that it’s luck of the draw, which is a terrible thing when you’re trying to understand your family’s future.

That's too bad. Seems like a mature 15/16 year old should be allowed to describe his life with an unstable parent and be heard. At that age it would probably be difficult to force a 16 yo to go to a house he/she doesn't want to be at.

[Anonymous]

Op, don't be stupid please. You would only litigate if you still have anger and resentment towards him cheating. Your marriage is done; take a loss and accept that it is happening and settle everything in mediation. You might have more leverage in litigation

[Anonymous]

NP here - at what $$$ value WOULD you litigate? I see all these comments thrown out here like “it’s not worth it for under $10 million”. But personally, what would be worth litigating to you?

My narcissistic ex is difficult to mediate with because of his personality disorder and the associated issues. Mediation might cost me $1-3 million dollars (before legal fees). So what’s the actual line?

Not trying to hijack the thread, but this seems relevant for OP too.

[Anonymous]

where does mediation cost $1-3M. You can have a few sessions of mediation and the mediator would decide if it is working or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:where does mediation cost $1-3M. You can have a few sessions of mediation and the mediator would decide if it is working or not.

That’s what mediation is going to cost me if I agree to what my jerk of an ex is offering. Two rounds so far and no progress. Would you go to court over a couple million bucks?

[Anonymous]

Mediate. Infidelity does not impact spousal or child support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here - at what $$$ value WOULD you litigate? I see all these comments thrown out here like “it’s not worth it for under $10 million”. But personally, what would be worth litigating to you?

My narcissistic ex is difficult to mediate with because of his personality disorder and the associated issues. Mediation might cost me $1-3 million dollars (before legal fees). So what’s the actual line?

Not trying to hijack the thread, but this seems relevant for OP too.

I’m the PP who made the $10m comment. Our STBXs may have similar problems. I think that if you mediate with a personality disorder, you need to be ready to give them tangible wins. You need attorney who understands this kind of mindset and how will impact your strategy.

Unfortunately I’m in a state that mandates mediation before trial so there’s an incentive for people to load up with a bunch of motions prior to mediation to set precedent with the intent that mediation will fail and precedent will be used to establish a status quo that may guide the outcome of the trial and settlement.

If I were in a state where mediation was optional or if I decided to convince STBX to pursue it as our man route towards settlement, I would definitely lose a lot of money just to make STBX feel like he was “winning” on other terms.

Our total net worth is probably $4m. In order to get agreeable custody terms and divide up certain assets in a way that makes the most sense for me tax-wise and for the long term given my lower earning potential, I would probably have to give up my share of equity from a vacation house and a specific brokerage account. For him to get those would make him think he was getting a big win over me, and I would probably have $1m less than him in the settlement, but I would get more that matters to me in the long term.

[Anonymous]

Most people go into mediation in bad faith, hoping to gain leverage for a trial or one-sided settlement.

If both parties can go into mediation in good faith then they can settle it without paying a mediator.

Otherwise, if I had to choose money going to STBX or his/my lawyers, I'd choose the latter every time.